Today, Recovering Grace looks at past Advanced Training Institute (ATI) and Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) materials that address the topics of sexual abuse, child molestation within a nuclear family, and domestic violence. This is not presented as an exhaustive survey, but is the full range of printed Institute material on these topics that Recovering Grace is aware of and has in our current library. We desire to present an accurate representation of Institute materials on these topics, so please share with us any materials we may have missed.
The following two excerpts are from Supplementary Alumni Book Volume 5, Our Most Important Messages Grow Out of Our Greatest Weaknesses, published in 1979. The topics are divorce and remarriage (which are condemned in the booklet) and advice for those already divorced and remarried. Throughout the publication there are several self-contained Q&A boxes addressing common questions on divorce, such as “If two Christians marry and one persists in being unfaithful, does the other one have ‘Scriptural grounds’ to get a divorce?” (“Answer: No.”) One Q&A appears to address domestic violence. Note the full context of the original KJV quotation from I Peter, with only the portions set in bold excerpted in the booklet.
Our Most Important Messages Grow Out of Our Greatest Weaknesses, page 10
2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
It has been said, only somewhat in jest, that the elimination of access to ellipses would make much of the Institute’s printed output impossible. Here three different sections on two different topics are spliced together to deny the very possibility of a wife being a physical victim if she has the proper perspective.
There is also a Q&A that appears to address a father’s sexual abuse of a couple’s children.
Our Most Important Messages Grow Out of Our Greatest Weaknesses, page 33
How to Make an Appeal, page 10
The answer qualifies, but still emphasizes, the husband’s authority in the family, leaving the wife in the position of first appealing to him to end the abuse. If the abuser doesn’t heed this appeal, perhaps it’s because the wife didn’t have the right attitudes or the proper understanding of the Bible when she asked her husband to stop sexually abusing the children. It’s unstated how the wife would know whether she was successful in her appeal, whether by the husband countering that he intended to continue the abuse or by her discovering that the abuse had been repeated, but she is instructed to then escalate the issue to the level of her and her husband’s respective parents. Hopefully a father who molests his children will have high regard for Old Testament admonitions to listen to his parents.
If the abuse is still not ended, the interpersonal conflict resolution of Matthew 18 is prescribed. This is perhaps a simple process as described in the New Testament, but a complex, arduous, multi-step, possibly months-long process fraught with hazards as described by the Institute’s instructions as published in a previous alumni supplement booklet, and nearly impossible to carry all the way through to Institute standards. It’s unclear whether the wife gets credit for having already carried out the first steps of the process, or should start over. If the Matthew 18 process is completed and fails, then I Corinthians 5:5 is put into play. The abuser is described as engaging in “immorality,” and the example in the cited passage is of an adult man in a sexual relationship with his father’s wife. The reader is then referred to II Corinthians 2:6-8:
6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. 7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. 8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
If the abuser has resisted, and the wife exhausted, every level of familial and church appeals and rebukes, it’s now acceptable to call the police. Hopefully the children, who are not mentioned after the original question, are still in good shape after their father has been through at least four rounds of discoverably proving, through his words or his actions, that he refuses to stop molesting them. The original question is never explicitly answered, and at no point is it declared acceptable for the wife to separate for the protection of the children. The only implied separation of the children from the abuser is that eventually facilitated by the police, or by God tiring or killing him. This latter divine threat is taken from I Corinthians 11:30, an odd choice in context:
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
The answer cites passages about marital authority, then parental authority, then interpersonal conflict resolution among adult believers, then church authority, then a man in a sexual relationship with another adult, then restoration of one who has repented, then governmental authority, then, finally, divine judgement related to the Lord’s Supper. There is no passage cited about children or about injustice. If there is no such thing as a wife who is a victim, though, perhaps there is no such thing as a child victim either. Are the children also “suffering for righteousness?”
These are older publications, but they illuminate much about the response of some ATI families to sexual abuse. So many hurdles must be cleared before the government authorities can be called in to address sexual abuse, and so many attempts at protection must fail, that it is not surprising that some ATI students lived with a sexually abusive parent for years, even after the other parent became aware of some of the abuse.
Basic Seminar Followup Course
How To Get Under God's Protection: The Principle of Authority, page 2
The Our Most Important Messages booklet was written for Basic Seminar alumni, and takes us into the Institute’s teachings on authority structures and the “umbrella of authority,” topics on which many words have been spilled over the past fifty years. The former ATI students who have shared their stories with Recovering Grace after facing sexual harassment, abuse, or assault in a family or Institute setting, or at the hands of outside authority figures, have almost universally cited the role of the Institute’s authority teachings in initial personal confusion about the abusive experience, and in later attempts to deal with the experience’s aftermath. While we cannot do this topic justice in a short space, a chart in the Basic Seminar Followup Course booklet How To Get Under God’s Protection: The Principle of Authority illustrates the complex position of the hypothetical mother in the Q&A above. The generic chart does not address sexual abuse specifically, but is the foundation upon which the authority language of Our Most Important Messages is based. Should the hypothetical mother in Our Most Important Messages “flee if forced to do evil,” the evil in this case being the possible repeat of sexual abuse of her children? Should she separate from her husband despite possible financial hardships, and thus “suffer for refusing to do evil”? No, she is admonished to “appeal to the authorities,” and instructed how to work her way up through levels of authority, neither leaving with her children nor going first to law enforcement. It is not always this clear where different types of abuse are meant to be housed on this diagram. While the wife whose “husband violates God’s moral laws against our children” was to “appeal,” the wife who was the “victim of her husband’s hostility” was instructed to learn to “suffer” and to realize that she was never a victim.
Basic Seminar Followup Course
How To Get Under God's Protection: The Principle of Authority, page 4
If identifying the correct authority interaction scenario is challenging for adults, it is even murkier for sexually abused minors. The same How To Get Under God’s Protection booklet gives a succinct introduction to the “umbrella of protection,” arguably the Institute’s most widely disseminated and enduring meme. Central to the concept is the fact that under the umbrella, “nothing can happen to us that God did not design for his glory and our ultimate good,” while out from under the umbrella, “we expose ourselves to the realm and power of Satan’s control.” So, is a child or young person to interpret sexual abuse from an authority figure as designed by God for glory, or the result of having strayed into the realm of Satan’s control?
Or is it the result of one of those infamous holes in the umbrella described in How to Make an Appeal, a hole for which a minor under authority has been issued a limited repair kit?
How to Make an Appeal, page 4
Sexual and physical abuse are not mentioned in the How To Get Under God’s Protection booklet, but there are 16 pages of instructions, anecdotes, and Q&A from which one can attempt to glean guidance, cross referenced with How to Make an Appeal, all summarized in chart form at the end. Appeal? Flee? Suffer? Submit more? “Be concerned for his reputation”? What’s the best supported inference? How can protection from abuse reliably be secured?
Basic Seminar Followup Course
How To Get Under God's Protection: The Principle of Authority, worksheet
Lessons from Moral Failures in a Family, page 1
Lessons from Moral Failures in a Family, page 2
In the 1990s, the document “Lessons From Moral Failure in a Family” advised ATI parents on preventing and dealing with an older sibling’s sexual abuse of younger children. Recovering Grace has previously published an examination of this piece, but it is worth revisiting the document’s introduction. Of the four listed consequences of sexual abuse, three concentrate on damage to public image. The abuse is presented as tragic, but public exposure of the abuse and the resulting damage to appearances are presented as at least as tragic. In this list of questions, “immodesty” in the home was presented to the young man as a leading question. It’s assumed to be a motivating factor for his sexual abuse of his siblings, and he was asked how not only he, but also his extremely young victims, could have been trained to “resist evil.” The document later endorses the offender’s critique of his young siblings failings in “modesty,” and concludes with a list of steps for parents to take to prevent sexual abuse among siblings. This document does feature an endorsement of police involvement not necessarily preceded by multiple appeals and confrontations, but this appears to be because a sibling does not occupy the same place in the authority structure that a husband and father does. The complete document is available here: Lessons_From_Moral_Failures_in_a_Family
A young sexual abuse victim, or a survivor of childhood abuse, attempting to synthesize and apply all of the teachings to personal experiences now must add the considerations of “ridicule to the cause of Christ,” “the shame of detailed publicity” for the family, and childhood “modesty,” to the umbrella of authority and the suffer/flee/appeal/submit quandary. Is it surprising that many minors in ATI families who were sexually abused chose not to report to anyone outside the family, for fear of implicating or humiliating themselves and other non-abusing family members, or of stepping out from the umbrella by not working upward through the levels of authority? Even if the abuser was not a family member, might not a revelation of sexual abuse call into question the godliness and discernment of the parents? Would others think there was a hole in the umbrella? Would it be better not to report the abuse to law enforcement?
Advanced Training Institute of America: A Comprehensive Course in Effective Counseling, Part Four
According to A Comprehensive Course in Effective Counseling, Part Four, not reporting would be the worst mistake of all. “Guilt will result from failing to report the incident to the proper authorities. This is a legitimate cause for guilt..” Between the late ’80s and ’00s, youth Counseling Seminars were an ATI young person’s main gateway to the world of other ATI courses, volunteer opportunities, trips, and staff positions. Now largely replaced by the Journey to the Heart retreats, the Counseling Seminars were designed to give young people a working toolbox of IBLP concepts and principles for life. Over the years the Counseling Seminar curriculum developed from a few loose leaf handouts to a series of more than twelve bound booklets. This above excerpt is from one of the later versions of the curriculum.
"Counseling Sexual Abuse," ATI Counseling Seminar handout
The “Counseling Sexual Abuse” handout joined the Counseling Seminar curriculum starting in the early ’90s, and has been covered at length by Recovering Grace. It applies the trichotomistic anthropology of the Basic Seminar to sexual abuse, and uses Daniel as the biblical example of a blameless abuse survivor. While it is legitimate to describe Daniel this way, and encouraging to see Institute materials acknowledging male abuse survivors, it is also striking how different Daniel’s described experience was from that of the abuse survivors most likely to read or be counseled according to this document. Daniel was a prisoner of war, severely sexually mutilated by his foreign captors. Everyone around Daniel knew what had happened to him, knew why it had happened, knew that he had done nothing foolish or rebellious to deserve the act of violence, and knew that he had certainly not enjoyed it. Not only was he not considered “dirty” after being made a eunuch, he was seen as permanently sexually pure, to use modern terms.
Contrast this to the rapes of Dinah and Tamar as recounted in the first two volumes of Character Sketches. The Institute version of Dinah’s story begins with what can be generously described as midrash, conventionally described as conjecture, and colloquially described as making things up. She is characterized as resentful and distrustful of her father, unwisely not seeking his counsel before rashly striking off into the unknown, alone, in “uncontrolled initiative.”
Character Sketches Vol. I, page 287
Character Sketches tells us that Dinah should not have ventured into this pagan city to make friends, but has some negative things to say about her father’s actions as well.
Character Sketches Vol. I, page 280
Character Sketches Vol. I, page 281
Apparently there were holes in her father’s umbrella, and God allowed Dinah to be attacked for a greater purpose. So ultimately, Dinah’s attack was God’s will and furthered God’s plan, right? Wrong. Or at least not right enough to absolve Dinah of responsibility for being raped.
If according to Character Sketches Dinah’s foolish mistake was to forgo seeking her father’s counsel and instead go into a pagan town alone, unescorted by her brothers, then Tamar’s foolish mistake was to follow her father’s request to go to the home of a family member, specifically that of her supposedly-ill half brother. It’s difficult for a rape survivor to choose admirably in Character Sketches. It seems she will always do something blameworthy.
Character Sketches Vol. II, page 111
Tamar, we are told, did not adequately sense danger when she received and followed her father’s instructions to go bake for a sick family member in his home, did not adequately sense danger when the family member wanted to sit with her as she baked, did not adequately sense danger when the illness-feigning man indicated that he’d like to take his food back to bed, and did not adequately sense danger when someone she believed to be weakened (and about to rest in bed with a meal) indicated that he didn’t need servants around at that moment. But no one blames Tamar, right? She did everything right that Dinah did wrong, and even the relentlessly fault-finding narrator of Character Sketches acknowledges that “she could hardly have imagined the danger.” But, we’re told, she didn’t cry out.
Character Sketches Vol. II, page 113
Tamar is credited for being perfectly modest, perfectly decorous, perfectly obedient to authority, and perfectly resistant to sexual advances. Character Sketches presents quite a list of things she could potentially have done to invite sexual assault, but avoided. She tried an appeal in the wrong situation, though; she wasn’t supposed to “suffer,” “appeal,” or “submit,” but to “flee,” and also cry out. If a sexual assault target doesn’t cry out to God in a narrative like this, perhaps God won’t be as inclined to intervene. Tamar should have know this was important, but lacked the presence of mind to tick all the boxes.
Character Sketches Vol. II, page 114
Would she have been spared only if she had “cried out” instead of trying to “reason with” her attacker, as the narrator asserts? Or would it have been enough to have brought along an additional brother, just in case of attack in her half brother’s house, as the narrator suggests? Should she have traveled to the house only with a group of male servants, to maintain safety at all times from her half brother, as the narrator also suggests? Or would that have indicated a “spirit of rebellion” and distrust for her father’s instructions? Was she in some unnamed way out from under her father’s “umbrella of protection” and thus “in the realm and power of Satan’s control”? Did her father have such a sizable hole in his “umbrella of protection” that Satan was able to attack her no matter what she did, even if she had “cried out”? Did she thus squander an opportunity to become “mighty in spirit,” and become “bitter” instead? Did her brother recognizing her distress—and her father later hearing of what had happened—constitute adequate reporting, or did she feel “legitimate cause for guilt” over not reporting sooner, or to a different level of authority? Was she wrong to appeal to her attacker at all, even though she was “concerned for his reputation,” or did she just make “too much appeal”? Or did she tip the scales toward “too little appeal,” and a “spirit of resignation”? Are appeals just for wives whose husbands are molesting their children?
At least Tamar wasn’t a victim.
January 5, 2020
How can their be any defenders of Bill Gothard, IBLP, or ATI left after reading this? It makes me physically ill
Three things jumped out at me here (well more, but 3 main ones).
1. BG was not under the 'umbrella' of authority when he sent his apology letter.
2. All these girls were at fault because they didn't 'cry out'?? Really???
3. Hm. There were red flags. BG asked them to his 'chamber' unaccompanied, and they should have seen the lust in his eyes.
Unbelievable. So sad. To all the women who have been victims, I'm so very very sorry.
"...it is my understanding that an initial review by an external legal firm was indeed completed near the beginning of April prior to Gothard’s issuing his April 17 letter....The IBLP Board and senior staff are processing the results of the initial investigation, collecting their own additional information internally, and working on making decisions about the future of the organization. This ongoing, internal review could take a long time, I have been told..."
Just to clarify, IBLP has never claimed to have an external (independent) investigation in this current scandal. Their process is completely an internal investigation, by their own admission. Their investigator is a long-time speaker at their own conferences and has been a friend of Bill's since the 1980s. Recovering Grace is calling for an independent investigation by a professional, unbiased source---preferably someone who has never received financial gifts from IBLP.
This is the second time I have heard about the possibility of an external "investigation". A couple of weeks ago, a person who is "in the "know" due to their involvement at the parents conferences, received a notice stating that an external person, not connected with IBLP/ATI, was involved with the investigation. The person couldn't recall the name at the time we spoke. They also stated that almost all of the "50" allegations had been discredited. Anyone out there heard anything about this?
Kh, if what you say is true, I am furious!!!
"They also stated that almost all of the "50" allegations had been discredited."
Hah! Is that what they are telling people, now? Do they even know who most of the 50 were? I hardly see RG just turning over a list of names, upon request!
Minimize, blame and shame? Sounds like true repentance to me!
Former ati student female,
Well written post. I agree with the meaning and explanation of Bills first two sentences. He released nothing against the boards knowledge or approval. As in the moderators comments I believe when someone on the inside of ATI says that and outside investigation took place they are right but I think RG's point is also accurate that the association is so close from those of us looking on from the outside the investigating group may as well be internal. It's like having your childhood friend do the investigation.
KH, I think the story of discrediting 50 stories is not possible. I only say that before everyone gets riled up thinking it's all going away. It's not.
Regarding the latest story with IBLP material. It is obvious from a legal perspective that IBLP's chain of command breaks legal laws as well as being theologically inaccurate. Because of that they will be forced to reevaluate. Keep the pressure on. It's not 1980 anymore. This all will not be swept under the rug.
With the mountain of evidence at this point anyone who stays in would just go find another cult possibly more damaging than IBLP (if that's possible)
Articles like this showing the major flaws in the IBLP material are possibly the most beneficial for those still in the program who may not have anyone to point out the inaccuracies.
In light of all that has recently come about reading these excerpts from the materials are sort of painful memories.
Thank you anyway for sharing them and showing the flaws in the teaching that has caused SO much harm.
The thing that really jumps out at me from entry #2 is that there is no mention that Law Enforcement needs to be contacted from the start to perform an investigation because a crime has been committed against the children. It only states that police be contacted after multiple steps to attempt to stop the perpetrator. This is completely and utterly inexcusable. SO, as a "what if" - say, a father molests his child, responds to step 2, and promises to never do it again. According to this document, then that is the end of the story. The father has committed a felony and gotten away with it. The victim is never given the counsel and help to understand and overcome what has been perpetrated against them.
This is blasphemy of the first order. The police need to be contacted when a crime has been committed. Period. Not wait until steps A, B, C, and D have been followed. How many victims have been squashed by this teaching? How many criminals walk free in churches because of it? Horrifying!!
As I have mentioned in another thread, I highly recommend the book "Pilgrim's Wilderness" about patriarchy taken to the extremes, where a family suffered years of criminal abuse (often sexual) at the hands of their father as a result of not knowing it was appropriate to speak out and call for help from law enforcement. It is a chilling story, though not directly IBLP related, common themes will be noticed. This evil excuse for a parent was only stopped when the children went to the Alaska State Troopers. Justice was finally served, but the children suffered needlessly for years because they didn't know to reach out.
Thanks again to Recovering Grace for doing yeoman's work on these issues.
God's Word, and God's solutions for life, are not as complicated and confusing and "multistep" involved as bill makes it out to be. I think this is just another pattern or method of control in cults---it keeps the victims off balance, out of kilter, and not able to see the truth or big picture of what really is. Some of bill's diagrams and procedures for "resolution" are just completely out of wack..
Like.
"God's Word, and God's solutions for life, are not as complicated and confusing and "multistep" involved as bill makes it out to be"
Indeed. Keeping them complicated necessitates the need to pay the organization to explain it all to you. When you distill it down; you pay money to learn the secrets to unleashing God's power and becoming successful. Snake oil salesmanship at its finest.
Agreed. It seems so clear now that it was a giant sales scheme in the guise of a Christian movement. Pay more to move up. Both cash and unpaid labor accepted. Isn't that the way Scientology works, as well?
^^ Yes what P.L. said. There are many similar things about Scientology and BG One is they both started about the same time.
Agree totally!
Love.
The proof-texting from 1 Peter 2-3 is horrifying erroneous. Even if one disbelieves these numerous accounts of victims (I don't), this objective evidence of error in the materials is enough to condemn the entire ministry. This is truly appalling.
A sad case of disgusting & harmful misrepresentation of the Word of God. :( very sad & disappointing. *shook head in grave disappointment etc while reading this article* Horrid violence occured on so many levels as a result of indoctrination at the hands of these false teachings. :( God help those who have been hurt, injured, abused, accosted, etc. God help those find grace & healing from their painful past.
These writings demonstrate the absolute insanity of the fundamentalist Christianity they represent. Following this kind of obviously abusive ideology eventually leads to the total destruction of a presons's identity and could well render them powerless to ever totally emancipate themselves from it. Thus is sick and frankly if "God" is like this then the vast majority of human beings are more moral than God. ... and if it's true that Gothard at one point confessed to more than a decade of habitual, addictive masturbation (during the same era he was spending copious alone time with nubile teenaged girls), then what does that say about his qualifications to condemn the divorced and remarried?
I feel sick.
Seeing these brings back so many memories of the seminars and these teachings that I haven't looked at in so long. Considering my own story, sometimes I wonder, how did it go on so long? How did my dad get away with it all those years? Well, seeing these lies packaged as "Biblical teaching" reminds me.
"There Is No Victim" infuriates me. I was most definitely a victim, as were my siblings, as was my mother. She bought these teachings hook, line, and sinker and of course my dad insisted upon them being followed because they gave him full cover. My mother never went to the authorities (although, looking back, I do place a lot of responsibility on her because her motherly instinct SHOULD have ended the violence she saw inflicted upon her children and her.) WE WERE VICTIMS. My father hit, kicked, beat, pulled our hair, screamed verbal abuse for hours, (and the list could go on) all of us SEVERELY. His fits of rage were terrifying. It was horrible abuse. Afterwards, he would "repent" and apologize and ask forgiveness (sometimes) and then be nice for a while. (This is the "honeymoon phase" where the abuser makes the victim trusting and comfortable again before the next round of abuse.)
Our childhoods were a horrible nightmare. I constantly went through all of these "STEPS" of checking my heart for guilt, trying to see God's "purpose" in it, etc. Imagine being a child and trying to understand and love a God who keeps letting this happen to you "for some reason, probably to teach me character."
I will not ramble on, but this is incredibly hurtful because it is so plain to me now.
Mr. Gothard, this system that you created, perhaps to cushion your own secret life of grooming and victimizing women, was used by the devil, not the Lord. The LORD, in His might, has never let me go and I love Him more today than ever as I see Him in the light of His Word, not your SYSTEMS. But my childhood held dark evil and it was allowed to continue thanks to your teachings. I'd be real interested to see how well you would have held up, as a child, being tortured physically, emotionally, verbally and spiritually, being told by a "godly teacher" to accept it as God polishing a diamond. (Again, I do not hold my mother blameless, who at some point should have realized she was responsible to save us.) My dad would reinforce during the abuse that HE was the GOD GIVEN authority and wasn't to be questioned or checked. He had free reign, and he knew it.
I hope the people who are still in this "program" will step back and take an objective look. Let your pride go - in the big picture, if you feel stupid for following someone's program blindly, it's nothing compared to continuing on for the sake of that pride. Eternity awaits us all - we will each be accountable to the holy God for our decisions here, and we won't be able to point the finger at Mr. G as an excuse.
Thanks, RG - this is tough stuff, but thanks for exposing the evil!
RealVictim, thanks for sharing your story. I'm so sorry you went through all of that, and I am glad God has brought you out of it. Blessings my friend!
Articulated very, very well. I think you should write your story and see if RG would publish it. I would love to see you face off with BG and see how he could look in your eyes and defend his completely anti-biblical teachings. You are so inspiring to have endured such horrific things and still love God. That is what amazes me about so many people on here who have experienced BG's teachings, that they keep their faith in God and our Lord Jesus and throw out the man made teachings and traditions. God bless you!
Real Victim, Thank you for writing your thoughts and sharing your horror stories.
I am angry for you just reading your words. You all deserved SO much better, I am sorry you didn't.
I appreciate your words in light of this important article to help shed light on how the chain of command and the power trips some men get on as fathers. It does help bring practical application to the article.
I do hope you and your siblings are finding roads to healing and health and that you find trust, peace, and enjoyment in future relationships with your own familes.
Again, thank you for sharing.
Real Victim,Your eloquence is awesome.Thank you for sharing your heart.My comment goes towards Bill Gothard's "props",the "nice guys honed to represent his skillfully abusive programs.Darkness needs light to some degree for deception to operate.Satan masquerades as an angel of light,but God never masquerades as an angel of darkness.Gothard used leadership figureheads,"big name" Christians,"nice guys","good people",to exploit,abuse,dehumanize.The problem is if I'm a "nice guy", a "good person",Christian leader,used for the promo of Gothardism,having seen and heard all the evils, lies,heresies,Gothard has committed,by way of these testimonies on Recovering Grace,and willfully choose to look the other way for such and such amount of time,I'm no longer a "nice guy", a "good person".I'm no longer "morally neutral".Hope that the end justifies the means caves into only the entanglement in a morass of sinister means,that got many people trying to prop up an end still being held onto as an "ideal",by a heretic.Somehow,some way,pray,speak out.
It is horrifying to realize countless people have been severely and profoundly injured by this madman's false doctrines. I am sad you endured this heartbreak.
While I was not directly involved in the IBLP madness, my family was savagely damaged by it because of lifelong friendships with people who were and who are DEEPLY immersed in it. To say their influence upon my loved ones and me is nightmarish does not even begin to describe it.
Thank you, for articulating a portion of your experience for others. Your explanation of some of what you suffered is helpful. I appreciate it.
My best to you,
EDS
I just wanted to say I am so sorry for what you went through! I went through the EXACT same abuses only it was from my Mother. She was a vile soul who made everyone PAY for her misery. She hit, smacked, beat, yelled, scream, kicked, came after us with hangers, scissors, paddles, belts etc...She had very extreme punishments that made no sense, using boiling hot water as one of her punishments and cold ice cubes as an extreme. She sexually abused us for many years and my Father knew about all of it and did NOTHING.
I understand your pain and it also infuriates me that nothing was done. I was also diagnosed with JRA(Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis at a young age. My parents REFUSED to have it medically treated. As a result, I am now 55 and I just had my 64th surgery to correct the damage done by their Medical Neglect/Abuse.
I have had years of therapy and I have healed. I now work with Abused Children hoping to help children now and not wait until they are an adult. I wish you the very best!
My dad told me straight out that my rape was consensual and I was at the very least equal part to blame because I didn't "cry out". Nevermind that I did cry out and there just wasn't anyone to help me... Nevermind that I was underage... As he saw it, if no one heard me cry out, then I didn't cry out..
Rose- that is so so wrong. I'm sorry to hear that. What happened to you was evil and blaming you was wrong
Oh my goodness, that's so awful! I'm so sorry!
Rose, I am so sorry that these twisted doctrines were used against you in your hurt. I hope that you are getting the help you need now. If not, keep seeking it out! There are wonderful counselors and therapists out who would love to be a part of your healing. Blessings to you.
I got as far as, "What if a father violates God's moral laws against his children?" And had to stop reading, for now.
So let me get this straight: a father molests *more than one* of his children (the quotation is in the plural, there), the wife's ONLY Scripturally allowable response is to sweetly say, "Honey, please don't do that..." [This is what is meant by a "godly appeal"].
The father molests *at least two* of his children, a second time (that the wife knows of, so AT LEAST FOUR incidences of molestation, by now). The only Scriptural response is to tattle on him to all the grandparents, and hope they will, a) believe you, and b) say sweetly, "Honey, please don't do that..."
The THIRD time he molests *at least two* of his children (a minimum of 6 counts of molestation, now).... No, we still are not taking it to the law, throwing him in jail, divorcing him, getting a restraining order... No, we sweetly ask the local church to ask him not to do that. In which case, he just quits attending church services. What does he care?
And at that point I gave up on calculating HOW MANY counts of molestation in which he actually got CAUGHT (not even counting the times he must not have been caught), before we finally take ANY legal action to protect our children. This mother should loose custody, as well!!
Sick, sick, sick.
Great point. If Someone is a molester no amount of appeals are appropriate. That person needs professional help and legal consequences. Period, first offense, no appeals, no second chance. It's illegal. If you see a mirder you don't go appeal to a person. You turn it over to law in forcemeat.
This rings so true, so close to home, so painful. Thanks for fleshing it out, 'Hannah'.
Good points, Hannah and Ryan.
Ryan, your typos made me laugh in spite of this sickening topic. ;)
They made me laugh also!!!
Note to self, have coffee before writing any comments!!! Ha
I am such an outsider here. I have known many who have attended IBLC throughout the years. Many times they have stayed at my home and I remember taxiing them to and from the conference. I heard just enough to give me no desire to attend. Many of the teachings came though different channels in church and homeschool circles and I can even admit to some of them taking root in my spirit.
While reading the abuse stories on RG have broken my heart, this article brings together quite a few pieces of the puzzle. I can understand why so many ATIA families had no joy, yet felt compelled to remain stuck in a cycle of guilt over not doing it right. (And of course pretend everything is wonderful). There were no options. You must homeschool, you must not limit blessings (children) in your life, you must remain under authority at all times. etc etc
My heart goes out to all of you here, trying to make sense of this information and regroup your lives. This is painful for me and I can only imagine how it is for those of you who dedicated your life to the promise implied in all of this.
I pray for all of you when I read your posts. May God reveal his grace and love through your journey. "Casting Crowns" in their new album "THRIVE" has a song- Just be Held. This would be my prayer for you!
I always felt Casting Crowns were a blatant ripoff of Counting Crows. (Their sound, their lead singer, even their name!) Have no idea how they avoided being sued. Just saying. You cannot paint BG and his entire career and ministry with one broad black brush. They should be clear to anyone with any perspective at all.
Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. Hopefully, I'm not banned. I just discovered RG a few days ago, and think they have a great ministry, providing a counterpoint to some of BG's perceived excesses.
Luke, I'm not sure why you think you would be banned.
I think that hubris disguised as humility is a big part of BG's problem. I think that the problems were there from the very beginning, though.
Have you read any of the other articles about Scripture twisting? Look at Dr. Allen's report if you get time. He claims, and I agree, that the problems with Gothard's teachings were there from the very beginning. Don't mean to be condescending, just sharing some info. you might like to look at. No slander here, just a suggestion.
https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/09/issues-of-concern-bill-gothard-and-the-bible-1984/
Uhhh.. Nothing new under the sun. It's not possible to create a band/music group that doesn't somewhat resemble someone else in some way. Technically, you saying such a thing about them is slander my friend.
Thanks for adding "my friend" on the end there, Megan. It added a condescending tone that made your insult of me more palatable. Have you even heard of Counting Crows before? The very first time I even heard Casting Crowns, I thought, "What the heck is going on?"
Wait, you've been doing a good bit of condescending yourself.. demeaning, and yes, slandering others and their stories here, but the instant you feel condescended to, you are up in arms about it?
I actually was trying to be friendly and disagree at the same time. I see that that didn't happen. I apologize for that, but seriously?
@ Luke, welcome to the site--I remember being overwhelmed by both the content and sheer number of articles when I first started reading here, and I still haven't even read a tenth of the articles! I hope you stick around and keep reading.
I'm not sure why you singled out Casting Crowns for criticism when many bands (and even single artists) have the exact same name. For example, at least 3 bands are named Pentagram; this can cause much confusion for fans:
http://community.spotify.com/t5/Help-Desktop-Linux-Mac-and/Multiple-artists-with-same-name/td-p/37061
For the record, I never heard of Counting Crows before (thanks to my secluded upbringing in ATI), so thanks for broadening my cultural knowledge.
I realize it's occasionally hard to judge tone online, but IMO your sarcastic response to 'Megan' was unnecessarily harsh. If only this existed: http://rhymeswithorange.com/comics/january-21-2014/
I agree with you that no one is completely evil/black as even Satan could be viewed as 'minding his own business.' However, we'll have to agree to disagree on the effects of Gothard and his ministry. In my life, the detrimental effects of his false teachings far out-weighed the benefits from the few truths. I think this article did an excellent job of highlighting many of the lies taught that exacerbated many (if not all) of the abuses reported elsewhere.
I think that BG's problem was ultimately hubris -- His original ideas, which he derived decades ago, (e.g. "The appeal", et. al.) were absolutely valid I think, and perhaps if he had just written a book, gotten married, and gone about his own life, perhaps his book would have ended up blessing untold thousands (if not millions) of people. And if a few crazies picked up his book and misapplied it, no one could blame BG for that.
But instead, BG took the public affirmation of his ideas as a mandate to change the world, to set up an empire, and to endeavor to derive an answer to any and every peculiar situation in life that someone might ask him about. He set up a testbed evidently at his various compounds for insiders to put his all-encompassing view of how society should be into practice. He proclaimed from the hilltops, "Come unto me,(i.e. Bill Gothard) all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I shall give you rest".
BGs problems is clearly sin, not hubris.
It should read"Come unto me (Bill Gothard) all ye who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you more burdens to carry to shrivel your soul"
Long December. Great Counting Crows song. Listened to it on a loop back in the day.
There are no victims, only people who are really bad at handling suffering. Wow. What a message. I am so terribly sorry for all those who have been victims of Gothard's teachings and have been denied even the proper label of victim. Lord, have mercy.
"There are no victims, only people who are really bad at handling suffering." That about sums it up. Men have free reign to do whatever they want and it is always the woman's fault. If only she had a better attitude, a more gentle spirit, been more patient, submitted more......" This makes me physically ill.
Gothard abuses Scripture as bad as any cult leader. His "proof texting" and legalistic teaching puts him definitely among the cults.
Growing up, I read everything I could lay my hands on, so most of this material I have seen before. In rereading it, I cannot believe that I ever thought it was scriptural. Just a few of the thoughts that occur to me now:
1. Our Most Important Messages Grow Out of Our Greatest Weaknesses: With all the proof texts and ellipses, the omission of I Peter 3:7 - a command that husbands consider and honour their wives - is glaring. The subtle message is sent that it is more important to obey one's authorities than that said authorities obey God.
2. How to Get Under God's Protection: There are many verses which directly contradict the claim that we can only obey God by staying under the umbrella of protection, but the most obvious one is from Christ: "For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me." See also: "We ought to obey God rather than man."
3. Lessons From Moral Failure in a Family: I felt physically faint just reading the excerpts written here. The enormity of those who encouraged a sociopath to do exactly what a sociopath does best - make excuses for his bad behaviour - was overwhelming. As a nurse, I have washed and changed adult patients of the opposite sex. Their very weakness and vulnerability demanded that I protect their humanity and dignity in such a situation. To think that we were told to learn from the twisted excuses of a pervert who blamed his wickedness on the innocence of children enrages me.
4. Counseling Sexual Abuse: From the obvious Gnosticism (spirit = most important; body = least important) of Steps 1 to 3; to the echo of Job's false friends ("You must have sinned for God to do this") in Steps 4 to 5; to the glib assertions about God's will of Steps 6 to 10; this pamphlet is riddled with error, presumption and a total lack of compassion for sexual abuse survivors.
5. Dinah Character Sketches: In discussing the errors of IBLP with my parents (who, I am thankful to say, acknowledge that the teaching was wrong) we looked up this character sketch. We noticed that all the 'Initiative' sketches were of negative Bible stories (generally, there were two negative and two positive sketches for each quality) - no wonder thinking outside the box was so discouraged in IBLP centres, as 'Initiative' was clearly a dangerous character quality to wield.
@The Quiet One "Their very weakness and vulnerability demanded that I protect their humanity and dignity"
Very well said. I do not understand any ministry that doesn't move with this type of sensitivity toward those vulnerable in our fallen world.
Well done, Quiet One. These are great insights, and demonstrate an *appropriate* application of scripture.
I also want to point out than an emphasis on what the 'offended one' has to do rather than what the 'offender' has to do is a consistent characteristic of spiritual abusers. It is demonstrated here in a truly shocking and extreme form, but all believers should watch carefully those leaders who talk alot about forgiveness but very little about repentance, who emphasize 'not holding grudges' more than 'not sinning', or who attempt to use the doctrine of grace for cover rather than accountability.
Quiet One always has great insights.
Reading this is honestly nauseating to me. Thank you for pulling all these threads together so that the tapestry is clearly seen. Yuck, yuck, yuck!!!
Only a sick, twisted soul could produce writings such as this. Unfortunately, board members likely are "true believers," desperately trying to salvage what they embrace as reliable interpretations of the Bible. This will not end well unless they publicly condemn both Bill Gothard AND his teachings.
Many years ago I was telling a group of friends from the Seventh Day Adventists about IBLP, and then let them borrow one of the Character Sketch books for a while. They soon gave it back, not interested. They had read the bit about Abigail and said it was way off base. That was what got me thinking more about everything else that was being taught. It wasn't only the way Abigail was made to look bad, it was that there were actual lies in the story. It was said (in the book)that proof that Abigail was evil was that she was never mentioned again in scripture after marrying David. First, she was mentioned again. And, does that mean that when each person's last time mentioned was when they sinned? Strange reasoning, indeed.
I wonder, did BG, who seemed to emphasize the 'Commands of Christ', ever mention, "The gentiles lord it over each other, but with you it shall not be so."?
I always thought Abigail was one of the most egregious of the twistings of Scripture, too! I was only on the periphery but remember thinking that it was crazy to reverse the story and make Abigail the bad one, when the Bible itself calls Nabal evil.
Funny how all of the worst twistings (Abigail, Dinah, Tamar) are about women, huh? BG had to give Scripture his own self-serving interpretation to keep women in the place he wanted them to be.
It was only recently that it dawned on me that Abigail was not at all wrong.
These teachings are atrocities, wrong on so many levels. They are an indictment not just against Gothard, but the IBLP organization. They must answer for this. It is not even enough to scrub this material and replace it. They need to reach out to followers to bring to their attention the harm of these teachings and steer them towards healthy resources for dealing with these abuses.
That you RG team for bringing this darkness into the light of day. This sickness must stop. It must end now.
Articles like this one should serve as a massive privilege check for those of us who are fathers (and to a lesser extent, those who are mothers). The majority of people aren't abused or abusers. I am told that a lot of people consider IBLP/ATI a blessing. The easy response for those who have had it easy is: Sure Bill was a little off here and there, but there's no reason to build a whole website so people can cry about their hurt feelings.
Check your privilege.
Are you a father? You're God's hammer. God's hammer. I've seen Thor. God's hammer is awesome. Who wouldn't want to be God's hammer? And if being God's hammer is awesome, and God is awesome, then being God's chisel must be awesome. And being God's diamond must be awesome.
That's the place of privilege you are seeing the world from if you are a father. It looks pretty good. And you're a pretty good guy. You treat the people around you well. They appeal sometimes. You change your mind sometimes. Bill's stuff works. It's awesome. And from your awesome privileged place as God's mighty hammer, there isn't a way in the world you are going to understand what it's like to be not a hammer unless you really try hard and listen well. There's not much chance of that though. You're a mighty hammer. Nothing needs to change.
So what did you do to earn this privileged position of awesome hammerhood? Surely for God to bestow such an awesome privilege on you, you must have shown incredible valour and character. You must have done something amazing.
Umm.
Two things happened.
First, you happened to be born male.
Second, you used your penis to donate some genetic material for a baby.
That's it. That's what makes you God's hammer. That's why you are in charge. That's why nobody gets to tell you what to do. That's why if you need to knock the kids and the wife into shape, they'd better make sure their motivations are right before they politely ask you to behave like a decent human being. That's why it's really important to explain why Bill taught some good stuff. Because if people ever get the idea that the only reason you are God's awesome hammer is that you have a penis and you used it, well, the whole thing might fall apart.
Reality check: it is falling apart. The 'diamonds' and 'chisels' are speaking up. It turns out that they are PEOPLE every bit as made-in-the-image-of-God as you are, and they didn't need you banging on about principles to find that out.
Check your privilege while you've still got it.
You can try to hang on to your made-up position as God's hammer, but don't be surprised if you end up looking like a complete tool.
"You can try to hang on to your made-up position as God’s hammer, but don’t be surprised if you end up looking like a complete tool."
Haha! Thank you for stating the truth so well, Jeff.
I often wonder how men in Patriarchy can look at the life of Jesus and ever think that they're modeling their lives after Him in how he valued and respected women and children. If men are to model the life of Jesus, it should look like Philippians 2:5-8:
"You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal’s death on a cross."
In "The Four Loves," CS Lewis basically says that when a husband loves his wife well, and in the most Christlike way, his marriage will most closely resemble a crucifixion, because he is putting her needs above his own, and sacrificing his own needs and desires for that of his wife and family. I'm not sure at what point the Christian culture grabbed the idea of male headship and used it to say the exact opposite of what Scripture commands and Jesus models for us. If a husband is doing his job right, he should feel the pains of crucifixion, not the glories being crowned and handed a hammer.
Respectfully Beverly, I would not include the BG cult as part of "Christian culture"...
@Jeff
Using the hammer analogy and bringing it full circle, didn't see that coming. Brilliant!!
Like I've said before, us guys have our issues with ATI but there's no comparison to what the girls and women endured. Submit, be seen not heard, have children and I'll make all the major decisions. What a crime.
Thank you for standing up for us, Ryan!
Jeff and Ryan are REAL men. :)
Yes. Check your privilege. Wise words to anyone of any privilege, in our day.
Jeff, congratulations!
You are a man who get what it means to put yourself in someone else's shoes.
Thank you so much, Jeff Gill. Your powerful words made the tears flow.
Thank you also, Ryan, for acknowledging what we endured.
That is the second time in the past weeks that I have read men acknowledging the shaming of women with understanding. As a woman I can’t express how healing it is when our brothers in Christ do that. (Another man was referencing the practice in fundamental circles of making girls get on their knees in order to be sure their skirt was of an acceptable length.) We girls were taught that we were “less than” and you guys were taught to see us as less than which robbed you from the blessing women were intended to be by God, which in turn, caused us to believe even more that we were less. It was a vicious spiral that took us all down.
It might be slightly off topic but for some reason Jeff’s comment brought to mind a ministry called Unearthed. I don’t know much about it except for a few things they have posted on their facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/unearthedpics) I think their stated mission is to end sexual exploitation by healing the hearts of men. I wondered if any of you were familiar with this group. A quote from their page that I saw was this, “We have to help men dream again - to dream like boys who haven't had something stolen from them yet. Before they were wounded. Before they were addicted. Before they were treated with religion. Before they learned to walk away from Jesus. Men are being restored back to childlike wholeness in the middle of a war - and the best thing we can do is help them dream again. That's what God is doing.”
@jeff gill: the above is one great post. it occurs to me that this type of thinking is behind a lot of great evil...divine right of kings; read your bible, children, god make me king....look at romans 13, so step one is get with my/god's program....deal with it clowns..
This is brilliant!
Thank you all for your encouragement! I have a long way to go when comes to not being a me-centric man. But I'm not angry all the time since when, a few years ago, I gave up the idea that I was somehow supposed to be in control of life.
Michelle, I'm honoured to be a small part of anyone's healing. Thank you for your reply.
"I'm not angry all the time since when, a few years ago, I gave up the idea that I was somehow supposed to be in control of life." Wise words.
(Very freeing when you know of the perfect love of the One who actually is in control.)
yes!! right on Jeff!!
A tool. Yes. And the smashed family at your feet. I remember in one of the magazines for the submissive women, a series of drawings of the husband holding a bat over his wife. In each picture she stooped lower until she was on the floor with him bending over her with that bat. The last drawing was when she was finally completely happy. She wrote.
I'm thinking that the reason we get involved with these sorts of groups is because we have this drive to trust or even worship something, someone, that we can see. So when a person presents a teaching that seems good, or even is partly good, we tend to follow the messenger instead of the Lord of the message. Then we so badly want to have life laid out for us that we ignore red flags. This must all be right. After all, look how many people are following. Like the Catholic church so often uses the saying, "Eighty million people can't all be wrong, can they?" Yes they can. In the Bible, the majority was usually wrong. It's the remnant, the ones on the narrow road, that are right. My brother once said he was suspicious of IBLP because too many people just flocked there.
And, isn't it also way too tempting for that 'leader' when we swallow everything? Power corrupts. Always. Traditionally the Mennonites never had only one pastor. Usually at least 3. Less temptation for pride and abuse of power. I'm thinking of another ministry I know of where the leader has a really good point, had some degree of success, then named the ministry after himself and is nasty to anyone who questions anything. Cuts them off the forum, edits their posts to say what makes him look good, and then they can't do anything about it.
I guess I'm just trying to figure out why we get caught up in this sort of thing in the first place and how to avoid it in the future. God said, "You want a king? OK, you get a king, and here's what he'll do to you and your family............" And our children suffer for it. We want to make an institution out of the first stable-looking thing we see. But Jesus said to worship in spirit and in truth.
@sunflower; thoughtful post. we tend to gravitate toward wanting what all the other nations have. we look for stability, security, assurance in the same places they look... and you end up with Alfred, using the rules for 'dress for success' as a model to live, because the voice of the real King has grown fainter and fainter. the subtly is that there IS a measure of 'success' in going with pragmatism , and the ways of fortune 500. they do 'work', but they will never take you to the heart of God and HIS messiah.
I'm having trouble reading all of this article. Gothard's teachings are so tortured it's a torture to read it. Excellent and necessary job.
I know that there are many good Christian people involved in the IBLP and ATI programs who would not condone this immoral behavior in anyone. Yes, we hear about the abusers hiding in the system - even Gothard himself.
Our former pastor is very involved in these teachings. I have seen him stand against injustice on numerous occasions. He even intervened when the organization we were working for mistreated and mismanaged us. I know he is concerned about the oppressed and abused.
So, I hope and pray that the good people involved with the IBLP and ATI will not turn a deaf ear to the cries of the abused as they cry out to God. I hope that they will not continue to enable the kind of sinful behavior that Gothard has been guilty of, thereby sharing in his guilt.
My prayers are with you, RG team, as you shine the light on these very dark places.
Thank you 'Megan,' Pam, and Sally,
I really appreciate your words of love and affirmation. Speaking up as a victim, actually writing out (just SOME of) what happened to me as a child under this man-made system, made me feel vulnerable and even alone. Your kind words has even brought me close to tears, it means so much. Healing is taking place, praise God. I praise Him that He hasn't let me go even though I've been on quite a journey. My heart has always wanted Him. He alone is to be praised, that people like me can make it through the fog of a man-made system to see the light of His love only - and experience the clarity of His truth alone! Pam, I would respectfully face off with Mr. G any day, hoping to appeal to his conscience with the truth of my story and how it was shaped under his system. Sally, some of my siblings are still "wandering" - trying to hold some belief in God but carrying deep anger over a childhood/young adulthood lost and saturated with abuse. I have to say, with a thankful heart, that I've married a wonderful (NON-ATI) man who loves the Lord and we have three adorable and wonderful children! I'm sort of re-living a "normal" or "happy" childhood with them! (As best I can, considering the constant chaos. ;))
Much Love to all ---- Keep Calm and Carry On, my brothers and sisters.
Pingback : THAT question evidence: Link to Gothard material | Biblical Personhood
Mr Gothard used to tell me that the things that had happened to me were good, because even though I had been physically harmed, I would become "mighty in spirit" instead.
He would ask, "Wouldn't you rather be mighty in spirit and have a damaged body, than be unharmed physically, but not have as much potential for God?"
"Then thank God that it happened!"
It's not like it was just the physical that was harmed!!! It goes deeper! Maybe I was physically damaged... But I'm not any better for it! I'm messed up physically AND emotionally AND spiritually because of it.
His teachings were just cover-ups for the abuse happening among his followers, and his own perverted life.
[Tears for all the pain that his teachings covered up]
Ah, step 8 on the "Counseling Sexual Abuse" sheet.
I'm so sorry that not only was this concept printed on a sheet but that it was used on you. You didn't deserve such a message. "Thank God that it happened" is so twisted. I'm so sorry.
Reviewing this material reminded me of the time 30+ years ago when I threw all of the Bill Gothard note books away. I had come to the conclusion that Bill Gothard's teaching was false teaching. I felt isolated and all alone because I was the only one for whom the principles didn't work. No one around me seemed to see the problems inherent and embedded in the teaching.
I had accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior at a Friday night chalk talk. As a new believer, I was vulnerable and open to the first teachings. I think this is normal to believe them. So much trust that this was how to live the Christian life. But is wasn't working so I tried all the harder.
I asked Bill Gothard one day why Jesus would cleanse us from sin only to make is feel all the more guilty again. His response was that is the way it is. After you come to Jesus you will feel more guilt and condemnation. Amazing response no amazing grace (pun intended).
The joy of being a new creature in Christ was stolen away.
I was caught in a prison cell complete with bars and chains holding me fast, a captive to guilt, condemnation, and fear. This bondage to principles drove me to the brink of suicide 3 times. I just wasn't good enough and couldn't make the principles work. I was the one to be blamed and shamed for them not working. The Lord Himself pulled me back from the brink.
Of course today I see Gothard's teaching as false, as another Jesus, another gospel, and another spirit.
Jesus Himself had to take me put of prison and set this captive free again. He took down the bars (principles) of the prison cell so I could love Him and know that He loved me.
So many have commented on how this teaching is twisted, distorted and not what the Bible teaches. I agree whole heartedly
I am new to this site. I haven't posted too often, but I am very grateful that this is being exposed for what it is. I am glad so many now have a place to go for help and encouragement. Thank you RG for this site.
When I read the accounts how so many people were damaged and abused I grieve and mourn for them. It is heart rending and heart breaking to read the accounts. To all the people who are so brave to write yours accounts know that you are being prayed for.
Although (thankfully) I was never a Gothardite, teachings similar to above were directly responsible for me spending nearly a decade of my life in high-control church/bible college with similar conservative doctrinal/biblical underpinnings as IBLP. After exiting and spending nearly 4 years in less controlling (yet still conservative) churches, I was professionally diagnosed with PTSD. All of this occurred while I was working succesfully in a world-class high-tech field.
It took much hard-work in therapy to get "emotionally functional" again on many levels and to develop inner peace after years of being manipulated by bad religion. To this day I continue to read, learn, think, and allow myself to simply "feel" to better emancipate myself from the clutches of the fundamentalist mind set. Sometimes I still get very angry but I've learned to deal with in healthy ways.
The drama of high-committement/control religion is really something else ... stranger than fiction and definitely a "parallel reality".
If it matters, I'm a later middle-aged male, came from a broken home and was divorced myself over two decades ago after entering my first marriage based on very bad counsel from Christian leaders; some of whom had a Gothard mindset. I've been happily remarried for many many years to a woman who is a former missionary and better Christian than ANY fundamentalist leader I've ever known (and I've known several).
As a sexual assault recovery counselor, it strikes me over and over how the story is always the same - when it comes to rape and sexual abuse, it's asked what the victim did to contribute. In this case, it's (subjectively) worse in a way because not only are those around the person stating this, the victim is made to believe this is what God says about them. When will men in 'Christian culture' (and I recognize and appreciate, Anonymous, your dissatisfaction with classifying BG under these terms, but for lack of a better term...) be held as equally accountable for their own behavior as women are?
It's almost demeaning to the men how the blame is placed so squarely on the woman in these scenarios. I respect the men in my life enough to hold them accountable for what they do! They are not animals who cannot control their baser instincts. I trust and expect my husband to do the right thing if a woman was unclothed and willing in front of him - I respect his intelligence and personal strength enough to think he can see that and still turn around and walk away! Honestly, it's kind of insulting when we assume otherwise...
If you were a survivor of abuse, know no one ever asks for or deserves sexual assault. No one. Period.
Very well said.
"If you were a survivor of abuse, know no one ever asks for or deserves sexual assault. No one. Period."
God bless you for saying this Stephanie! Thank you for bringing your highly qualified input to the discussion. Your comments are spot on. This is your field,and your words carry a lot of weight.
I also find it interesting that Bill Gothard did not hesitate to teach on matters, for which he was utterly unqualified. Much of how he teaches on handling abuses is the exact opposite of how such mattes should be handled. Those few who still cling to the notion that Gothard is right, please answer: What exactly qualified Bill Gothard as an expert who should be giving advise on handling abuse? You can apply this question to just about every area that Gothard teaches on. He seems to consider himself the expert on everything, yet only in his own mind and in the eyes of his adoring followers is he actually qualified as such.
I am grateful it was encouraging to you guys. Sadly, I find it cannot be said enough. There is nothing anyone can do that deserves abuse.
Kevin, I am glad you said what you did about Gothard's lack of expertise. It is disturbing in my opinion when religious leaders claim expertise in all areas of mental, physical and relational wellness. It is not something you can generalize. I feel like we all have to be humble about what we can and cannot speak to or people suffer. While pastors and ministers can certainly speak to God's perspective or philosophy on something like mental health, I'd venture respectfully to say that most do not have the training to create a step-by-step formula like this one, which seems to be meant as the sole formula to healing.
In my state, counselors must take at least a 2-3 year master's degree and 3000 hours of supervised training to become licensed. It's not something you can pick up overnight. I don't mean to elevate myself, in reverse, I want to express clearly that I do not think myself a theological or medical expert, two fields that often overlap with mine, and I certainly still have a great deal to learn in my own field! But the difference I strive to achieve is that when I encounter something I simply cannot speak on with authority and/or experience, I refer to a trusted pastor or medical doctor to answer those questions, or indeed, another counselor with differing expertise.
I might venture to say that the mark of a cult-like leader is not referring out but instead saying that they have the answers to everything in any circumstance.
"I might venture to say that the mark of a cult-like leader is not referring out but instead saying that they have the answers to everything in any circumstance."
Very well said, Stephanie.
@Stephanie and Bev.: good points; We see in Bill's setup, not at all unique to Bill, an approach to the bible that says "this is God's answer for everything". Maybe even "this is God's complete answer for everything..." This is a huge error, and the next thing you know, GOD is weighing in on how to grow tomatoes... or how curly/straight your hair should be... (I'm staying away from undergarments, other than my own, today, thank you)
this approach takes us down some strange roads, and one of them is a solid distrust of many professionals, especially in the social sciences. these professionals, even if they are christian, will NEVER be 'biblical' enough to suit the 'bible only' way of approaching life. very sad, very avoidable.
What does this mean, Greg R? "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof" (2 Timothy 3:5)
"God is alright, just as long as you don't take him too seriously . . . or too literally".
Boy . . . if *I* invented tomatoes, I would most certainly have an opinion on how best to grow them. If I invented clothing, I also would have an opinion on how that works best. You know . . . the engineer to his product?
Again . . . the beautiful thing is that you can reject Bill and what he teaches . . . and you have no-one to answer to but Jesus. I TOO get to accept Bill . . . and what he teaches . . . and I TOO get to answer to Jesus.
@Alfred: the power of GOD was most clearly displayed when HE let HIS only loved SON be beaten, whipped, then crucified. That is power.
As for the rest of your post, we agree to disagree on what the bible is, on what GOD is trying to tell us. God did not give us the gift of HIS word to show us how to grow tomatoes, or EXACTLY how to dress . That's not what the book is for, but if you've made up your mind about that, Alfred, then run with it. The midrash is pretty detailed too, BTW. Find Jesus = find life.
Alfred, you answered to greg r and made a quote that appears to be attributed to him, but I can't find it anywhere else on this particular comment thread. Here is what you attributed to him, as though you can read his attitude: "God is alright, just as long as you don't take him too seriously . . . or too literally".
It appears you are putting words in his mouth. That is NOT what I interpreted greg r's comment to mean at all. He was talking about Bill's penchant to be an answer man, claiming a Bible reason and method for things the Bible is silent about, to the point where people who hang on Bill's every word come to distrust professionals.
I have an example of this - and that is the IBLP blurb I once read against gall bladder surgeries. I am so furious with that dangerous and bogus claim, written as though Gothard had some superior medical knowledge when he did not. While a second medical opinion may differ from the first, and one may be the better choice, Bill Gothard does not count in giving second medical opinions! I perfectly understand greg r's response, and Bill's hubris in publishing such a dangerous anecdote is beyond disgusting - it could be dangerous for someone who really would require surgery, but did not get it.
Alfred, I appreciate that you brought up something I can clarify - which is just that we are all potentially fallible when it comes to interpreting what the Bible would say on a specific issue that was not explicitly mentioned in the Bible. A good example would be exactly what LynnD said: the Bible never specifically mentions gall bladder surgeries (for or against) and it seems like IBLP literature has made a judgment on it. While God's voice on this matters, He hasn't chosen to spell it out out for us. That's why (in my opinion) we must think critically and consult with learning in those areas.
My thought would be you might accept Bill's interpretation as Bill's (and judge it on its' own merit) but it's dangerous and inaccurate when Bill or any spiritual leader expresses interpretations of Scripture on unexpressed subjects (i.e. gallbladder surgery) as coming straight from the Word of God.
Hope that makes sense!
Good to hear all your voices.
Now I am most baffled where Bill ever said the Bible was against gall bladder surgeries. I mean . . . I have the MTIA booklet on gall bladders . . . and it talks about a "gall bladder flush" as a way to remove stones. Is that your source? Because . . . I am at a loss to recall any Biblical basis presented for or against surgery or other remedies. JUST because Bill backed something doesn't mean it was a hidden tenant in the Law of Moses. Generally he would support the "design" principle, that God designed the body to heal itself, and we need to support that design all we can. Nothing too crazy about that.
But back to the Bible. I do believe that God is SO powerful that He has given wonderful precepts that have wisdom embedded down to any level you wish. On that we DO differ! I guess we will all see how it comes out when we open our eyes in Eternity and are able to fully appreciate His power and wisdom.
@LynnCD: your post brings up (again) at least two points where Bill falls way short in his teaching.
1)in true salesman form, the man will try to sell anything to anyone thru anecdote. Weak on bible support ?? proof text a little, storytell A LOT. Hope that people don't notice.... maybe do the group hymn thing soon afterwards, that's well received ..
2)cite an expert ONLY when that expert agrees with what you are trying to teach, but in general , stay away from the professonals, especially those in the social services and sciences (social work, psychologists, mental health people, even doctors if they have a view, even a dominant view, that goes opposite what Bill is selling)
As to Alfred attributing motive...well, if you can't/won't refute the message....
also known as "if the evidence is on your side, show the evidence..if the law is on your side ,, show the law...if neither is on your side.. bang on the table"
No, Alfred, it was some mailing I received years ago and have pitched. Years ago I posted about it on the Yahoo Gothard list. The pamphlet was intended to demonize the medical establishment and promote a long since debunked, phoney "gall bladder flush." In the pamphlet, a woman wound up not needing surgery.
On the Gothard list, a woman named Lori told about a relative who *did* end up requiring surgery, and this relative nearly died on account of doing this fake flush thing first.
So I guess one anecdote cancels the other one out.
The pamphlet was typical IBLP - pitting the superior spiritual knowledge of IBLP and *spiritual* people in dealing with medical matters, replete with suspicious quotes from the nurse, to the "success" of the one who did this flush.
What winds up in the stool of those who do this flush, btw, are not gallstones, but some aggregate of the oils and other things ingested - the body makes some kind of clump of the materials ingested, and they are eliminated.
I cannot remember if any Scriptures were quoted in this pamphlet or not, but it was more the superior attitude of the mailing that galled me (pun intended), which I would say comes from the teaching on spirit over mind, where Scripture is misused to create the false dichotomy between the two.
Never mind that, though, about this pamphlet lacking in Scripture, or whether it had it. I well remember Gothard's endorsement of, I think his name was Wright, and that discernment list of medical problems, replete with Scripture verses, is enough to demonstrate what I mean. Gothard has had a penchant for latching onto quacks, in this regard. There, I just looked it up. Here is a quote from Pastor Keith, from the Gothard list:
[Begin quote] In his advertisement for this years ministers conference, BG touted a
"discerning pastor in Georgia" who, "has traced eighty diseases to their spiritual causes. He is getting a 90 percent success rate in helping people clear up diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis, allergies, asthma, ..." It goes on but most of you have seen it.
I called headquarters and eventually spoke with Bills personal secretary. I asked what documentation they had been given to verify these claims. She stated they had none, but that this was the pastor's claim, not theirs. I read the brochure to her, and she admitted it sounded like they had verified the facts.
I asked if she thought it was a responsible action to promote something as fact that they had never checked out. No answer. I asked how this differed from the claims of fraudulent faith teachers like Benny Hinn. No response.
I had to prod and call several offices but I eventually tracked down the "discerning pastor". It is Pastor Henry Wright. I bought his book. I thought you might like to see the kind of pastor Bill endorses.
In this book Pastor Wright says epilepsy is caused by a demon 100% of the time, even in Christians; scoliosis is a demon; sciatica is a demon; ADD is a demon; and viruses are demons.
Dislexia is caused by a woman ruling the home. Colon cancer is caused by slander. Liver cancer is caused by lust and an addiction to pornography, based on Proverbs 7:21-23. Breast cancer is caused by a woman being in conflict with another woman in her family, especially her mother. Ovarian cancer is caused by a woman rejecting her femininity.
Prostate cancer is caused by anger, guilt, self-hatred, and bitterness, based on 1 John 3:14-15. Osteoporosis is caused by envy. Degenerative disc disease is caused by an addictive personality.
I could go on, but we probably can't handle too much more discernment in one night. This book is so bogus it's unbelievable. Pastor Wright also has an inflated opinion of himself. Notice:
"I went to God one day and I said, "You better talk to me, Boss, because if you have called me to represent You to Your people, and to those yet unsaved, You'd better show me a little more fruit. If it's not happening, You'd better tell me why or else I'm going to go back into sales and marketing. I'll go to church, I'll love you, I'll be a good Christian, I might even be a deacon, but you can forget about me speaking. I'm not speaking for You if my words are not being honored, because that is fraud." (page 2)
"I promise you that I have the fruit to prove, nationally, that God has honored this teaching. Many times I know disease, even when I don't know the person and don't know the circumstances, I know what's behind the disease spiritually." (page 23)
"I was asked to sit down with the leadership of a large denomination in America in spiritual think-tank workshop. They are staggering under the revelation of what I'm teaching." (page 42)
"I want to tell you something; you had better thank God for my intensity because I am a warrior. I am out to destroy the works of the devil and to reclaim God's precious flock from the hands of Satan and re-establish you into praising His glory here and now, not when you get to heaven. Then, when you get to heaven, you can give Him thanks for it. AMEN!" (page 57)
Speaking of colon cancer, he says, "There are alot of strange things
happening between the lips and the anus, and in between all kinds of things can go wrong for many spiritual reasons. If you poop on enough people, it comes back to you," (page 122)
There are so many errors in this book it would be impossible to address them all. But once again, I thought you might be interested in seeing what a "discerning pastor" looks like -- to BG. [End quote]
Keep in mind this material was promoted by Bill Gothard.
Now, just a caveat . . . I am very grateful to doctors, especially functional medicine/integrative doctors and preventive medicine doctors. I don't always agree with everything put forward as conventional medical treatment, especially when it comes to, say, type 2 diabetes, or cholesterol management with statin drugs. But I have scientific reasons for why I think so, not simply n=1 stories, or twisting Scripture like a pretzel to make it say whatever it is I want it to say.
I have no doubt that the "leadership of a large denomination" was staggering at his statements.
This Pastor Wright sound more off his rocker than Bill is.
>>>
LynnCD shared Pastor Henry Wright's statement:
"I was asked to sit down with the leadership of a large denomination in America in spiritual think-tank workshop. They are staggering under the revelation of what I'm teaching." (page 42)
<<<
Dinah and Tamar's behavior brought shame, disgrace, and even death on their families. That is our takeaway. The personal violation being an unfortunate consequence of their actions.
I remember feeling such concern and confusion over these Character Sketch stories, and that of Abigail, because the scriptures themselves seemed to tell the stories so differently. For many years, I assumed that I was misunderstanding the stories. As an adult with life experiences and a better understanding of humanity, I feel violated by the exploitation of women that these teachings allow.
Kari,
You are so right. Gothard took respected women in Scripture and tore them down. In Gothard's narcissistic world view, Scripture exists for the purpose of proving his (Gothard's) principles. The principles are non-optional, so there is a real problem when people violate a principle, and terrible consequences don't follow. Rather than acknowledge that the principles are not some sort of non-optional rule from God, Gothard simply changes Scripture to fit the principle, and this removes the conflict.
For example, Abigail went behind her husband's back, outside of his umbrella of protection. In so doing, she was able to appeal to David and save her husband and family from his wrath. This is a real problem for Gothard, because in going behind his back, she violated the umbrella of protection principle, and creates a real problem for Gothard, if he is to maintain the absoluteness of his principles. Solution- change Scripture to fit the principle. Make up that Abigail was not an honorable woman, but lived a miserable existence following her disobedient act. According to Character Sketches,she named her son a name which means "God has judged me", implying that the name was chosen to reflect the shame and judgement upon her for her. His name was Daniel. It actually means "God is my judge", which, of course, is indicative of someone who is obedient to God and recognizes they are accountable to God, not that they have been judged by God for some principle violation. A little twist here a word added there, and he completely perverts the meaning of Scripture, giving something nearly the opposite meaning than was communicated in verse.
"n Gothard's narcissistic world view, Scripture exists for the purpose of proving his (Gothard's) principles."
Excellent summation of Gothard's proof-texting.
I also thought it was hilarious that so many ATI families named their daughters 'Abigail' anyway.
And good for them that they did! It is a lovely name.
Abigail is the hero of the story over against her "Fool" husband. She also shows herself in this passage to understand better than David the importance of a righteous king and she absolutely violates the "umbrella of authority" to defend that righteousness.
An interesting study would be to catalogue the many times that men and women of GOD, and Jesus HIMSELF for that matter, violated the holy umbrella to show how the FATHER feels and acts for the lowest, the lost, the least. Start with the prophets, perhaps, brew your favorite coffee or tea... this will take awhile.
Curiously, the pharisees and other religious leaders were BIG into their version of the umbrella, and not too keen on Jesus inaugarating something new...
My family wasn't in ATI, but we had lots of friends who were and we used some of their materials in our homeschooling, went to Basic Seminars, etc. I remember my mom reading these particular character sketches to us as older elementary kids and my brother and I being outraged. Even as kids who didn't know the concept of "victim blaming," we both instantly recognized the stupidity of BG's conclusion. We argued with our mom about it and told our dad, who was less keen on the whole ATI thing. Luckily I guess we were old enough and it was a small enough part of our lives that we can look back on our family's involvement in ATI as wasteful and stupid but not destructive. Thank God! Other families we knew have not been so lucky.
Discontinue the ATI program.
"If abused was not at fault."
If? IF?!
How can anyone defend these teachings? I don't get how a rational person with an ounce of empathy can read this and not be horrified that Gothard advised women whose husbands were molesting their children to not go to the police immediately but to just "ask nice".
Hope: My greatest problem with BG is his sexual harassment of young women. Much of his teaching on authority and design, etc. has much truth in it. In fat, I just counseled my 19 year old son how to respectfully appeal a decision his boss just made and it all worked out beautifully. BG and IBLP has helped me and my family in a host of areas, and I do not want to throw all of it out. However, with that said, I am deeply troubled by the 34 accusations of young women and girls who have been harassed by this "lonely and sad man." It is the legalism along with the sexual harassment that has doomed BG's ministry. After preaching to others he has disqualified himself for the very sins of the flesh he engaged in. IBLP, if they are to survive has got to change this unbiblical and legalistic view of men-women relationships and be more pro-relational and grace in bringing men and women together for the very purpose of dating and courtship. Yes,I know this sounds out of the loop, but when you isolate men and women into a sequestered ministry bad things are bound to happen--from all parties--including "bosses."
Guy Cooksey, are you saying you agree with the teachings that a woman should not report her husband immediately to the police if he is sexually molesting their children? Sexual molestation is not something to be treated lightly or something where you "get another chance" especially if the molester is an authority figure like a father. Most likely the man will nicely agree to his wife to not do it anymore and then be better at hiding it. My husband knows this from experience because his parents followed the advice to "just ask nicely" and not go to the police.
Even if Gothard did not sexually harass anyone, these sorts of teachings would and did result in children being hurt.
Hi Hope: No, not in any way possible am I saying what you just wrote. I am only saying that much of BG's material was helpful for me and my wife in our young marriage. We had never encountered teaching on design or authority or responsibility, etc. Believe me, to us it was refreshing and life-changing. However, with that said we also saw the profound cult-status that this ministry had over many of our friends. It was the primary reason why we did not join ATI. Plus, we did see the creeping legalism that BG seemed to teach and promote. As a pastor of over 25 years, I have learned to glean the good from the bad, and I do this with BG's material.
The thing is, there ARE practical things Gothard teaches that are helpful, or have some truth in them, that's WHY it was so easy to swallow everything else. Frankly, what little that is true in his teachings is the same thing you can find in your own Bible, it's just not worth wading through all of the half truths and lies for whatever good tidbits you can find.
My own dad credits Gothard's teachings with helping him make restitution with certain offenders and offended, but my dad can't see the forest for the trees. His life, his family, his marriage, are in shambles thanks mostly to Gothard, yet he still holds on because that one time, or that one situation/teaching helped him once. It makes me so sad. And it makes me wonder how many other people who rave about the teachings, are equally blind to the real problem.
Megan, I might have been unclear in my first comment. I realize that some of the things he teaches can be helpful, but THESE sorts of teachings there is no way they are helpful for abuse victims. And I don't understand how people can defend the idea that a man who molests children should not be immediately reported to the police.
That is why I was surprised when Guy said that he didn't have a problem with these teachings. Maybe he also didn't understand what I was saying and he does have a problem with the teachings on sexual abuse and there are just other teachings he approves of?
Megan wrote:
it's just not worth wading through all of the half truths and lies for whatever good tidbits you can find.
"here's some yummie, yummie, steak...goooood.. well...there ARE some hunks of glass and wire in there, so be kinda careful..but the steak part is really quite good, yummie..
uhh..no thanks
Pingback : Speaking Up Late in the Day | Recovering Grace
I remember hearing these lessons as a young teenager and being terrified that if something like that happened, what if I was so scared that I froze and couldn't scream? Then God would consider at fault too! What a sick way to be taught to think. I think my dad probably talked to us about the whole "crying out" thing, but I know now that he would never have blamed me if I got raped. But, as a kid you hear things and you take them literally. Parents don't always know how their kids are processing information and need to be oh so careful, and ask lots of clarifying questions.
Below is the news report about the trial of one Gothard family’s tragic situation of sexual impropriaties from a son. There were about 12 kids in the bunch. They were raised under Gothard’s homeschooling, though not uberlly-so as Christ was first in their home. I spent a short time with them helping them homeschool so I got to witness first hand what goes on in a Gothard family. I loved them and admired how they raised their kids.
According to BG’s promises of being under the umbrella when a christian does what BG directs, they should have been protected from this event even happening. My heart breaks for them because of all that happened and how the parents, siblings and their families will be impacted.
http://www.dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news/ci_25672674/pastor-james-roberson-pleads-guilty-vinelife-church-sexual
From the news article: "Five church officials also were issued summons for failing to report alleged sexual abuse of a child: Senior Pastor Walt Roberson, who is Jason Roberson's father, Executive Pastor Robert Phillip Young, Pastor Luke Michael Humbrecht, and church elders Edward Charles Bennell and Warren Lloyd Williams."
Adults who knew about the abuse, but did not report it, are also being held responsible for their silence.
It is for this reason that Gothard's alleged molestation of young girls should have a lot of IBLP leaders concerned, besides just Bill Gothard. Having a long time friend of the organization, who also happens to be an attorney known for representing organizations in which clergy abuse has occurred, conduct the investigation, is no accident.
This is why an investigation must be carried out by an external, unbiased, independent source -- not by people who have a vested interest in the case, and who could theoretically be personally affected by the ultimate outcome. Not only are abusers guilty, but those who knew about the abuse and kept silent must also be held accountable.
Pingback : PART II: Christian Reconstruction, ATI, Abuse & Submission | The Pink Flamingo
These materials are absolutely appalling, not to mention hypocritical and unscriptural.
Why does it advise a wife who learns that her husband is being "immoral" with the kids to first appeal to her husband to stop, when the story of Tamar illustrates very vividly what a mistake it is to try to appeal to someone about to commit a sexual assault.
In the story of Tamar, the materials say she should have screamed and run away. And yet here they are, discouraging a wife from taking her children away from an abusive father. Why shouldn't child victims (and their mother) also scream and run away? The fixation on absolute patriarchy has resulted in the mental gymnastics required to justify giving Dad a few more opportunities to rape his kids.
Such a mentality also shows a stunning lack of understanding of sexual abuse, not to mention total disregard of the child victims. To force children to remain under the authority of their abuser/rapist is horrific. Pedophiles don't just stop because someone asked them to. They stop when they are sent to prison and/or forced to stay away from potential victims.
The part about "immodesty" by the victims contributing to their abuse is still the mentality in the Middle East. A woman who is unescorted by a male relative is fair game. To go out on her own is a clear statement that she's "asking for it" because boys and men are not expected to be able to control their sexual urges. I'm horrified that the IBLP follows this belief, looking for reasons to blame the victim, regardless of age.
And how can they imply that sexual abuse victims have to choose between being molested and being "mighty in spirit?" Is being abused the only way to become "mighty in spirit?" That's a horrible thing to put on a victim. Of course every victim of sexual abuse prefers that it never happened. To imply that they should be grateful for the benefits (spiritual growth) is disgusting.
If I learned that anyone sexually abused my young daughter, my first call would be to the police and I would insist on prosecution to make sure that person went to prison and became a registered sex offender with all the restrictions that come with it. Such a person should not be left alone with anyone in their target age group as part of life long parole.
But then I was raised to think for myself, and not be anyone's doormat. I am still a Bible-believing Christian, so obviously I can be a faithful believer without being a female sub-human. I shudder to think of how many people have suffered due to these distorted teachings.
Pingback : Dear Mr. Gothard | Redemption Pictures
I am a born again Christian, dispensational, evangelical, fundamentalist and I am completely appalled and disgusted by every word I have read this evening.
The splicing of scripture by this organization to fit their need leaves me speechless, and the idea that the God that loves and will judge (yes, I said it) judge the unsaved would want someone to patiently wait for a sexual molester (especially a child, but molesting anyone) to repent and sin no more is preposterous.
Pardon me now, as I need to go vomit, this is a cult and I can't believe their are people desperate enough to blindly follow this person.
I realize this is an old thread but I didn’t see it until yesterday. Out of the million or so problems I have with all of this, I just wanted to add a couple more things about the Tamar Character Sketch that I didn’t see already mentioned in the comments. Sorry it's kind of long!
I don’t specifically remember the names Gothard or IBLP from my childhood (1970s and ‘80s), but I got a lot of the same messages from the Independent Baptist churches my family attended. Including this one: Tamar should have “anticipated and avoided this disaster.”
Being young and female, Tamar was the only person in the story that I could really relate to. Here’s what I learned from what happened to her:
1. I should assume that my own brothers will try to rape me should the opportunity ever present itself, and take steps to ensure that it doesn’t.
I don’t remember hearing any pastors explicitly warn the young ladies in the audience (not that they ever did address us directly) to never be alone in a room with our own brothers, but as a teenage girl with teenage brothers what else was I supposed to take away from that? The moral of the story is, the sister should’ve anticipated being raped by her brother. Creepy, to say the least. I could’ve done without having that thought planted into my brain! Just one of the many things that drove a wedge between me & my family and had me hyper-vigilant, living in constant fear.
2. Rape is a demonstration of love.
Growing up I would have read it in the KJV: “I love Tamar” (2 Sam. 13:4) then “the hatred wherewith he hated her was greater than the love wherewith he had loved her.” (2 Sam. 13:15) Note that he raped her while he loved her. He doesn't "hate her exceedingly” until after. It's one of many "Biblical" proofs that the people who claim to love you are allowed to hurt you. No one ever suggested that if Amnon actually loved Tamar maybe he wouldn’t have treated her that way!
Instead it lead into- This is why the ladies shouldn’t fornicate! Because as soon as they give a guy what he wants he’ll dump them. If you misbehave, ladies, that’s what ya get and it serves you right.
I just looked it up on biblehub-dot-com to quote it correctly; there are two commentaries below the verses. For verse 14, Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary begins with “From henceforward David was followed with one trouble after another.”
...Because all we need be concerned about is how it affects David, don’t you know.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible begins with “Howbeit, he would not hearken unto her voice, His lust was so inflamed and enraged, that he could not attend to any arguments, though ever so forcible, that were offered to him:” and then it questions whether or not she cried out “as the law directs”.
...He “could not” stop. because men can’t be expected to have any self control, they just can’t help it. And we can’t determine where to lay the blame if there’s a chance that she failed to follow the rule regarding the one correct response to being raped.
The highlighted portion from the Character Sketch above says “Tamar’s failure to anticipate evil intentions brought shame and death to her family”. What kind of person can read this story and think it’s all about TAMAR’S failure? That says a lot. Tamar and Dinah both get the blame for setting events into motion that caused danger, disgrace, shame and death to other people. I can see why the author felt the need to specifically call that to our attention in bold capital letters, people who simply read the stories for themselves might overlook it. (on account of how it’s not there.)
The whole post was horrifying, but this part in particular strikes a nerve because it reminds me of something my Dad said to me that I’ll never forget. “As far as I’m concerned, you instigated it. You must have seduced him because I know him and he wouldn’t do that.” See- the pastors taught me to fear my own family, but nobody taught me to fear the Pastors.
I was 15 when I was raped by one.
I was punished. He was not. For reasons that are probably obvious to anyone familiar with this website. (Thanks for posting it, by the way!)
Note also how no one ever preaches against David's own polygamy that set the stage for all this: half-siblings fighting and raping, insufficient paternal attention, mothers competing for their sons' advancement, revenge, etc. And how would it have turned out differently if David has only accompanied Tamar to the sick boy's bedside to show his concern?
When I hear someone talk about David's "only" sin with Bathsheba, I wonder if they actually read the Bible, or just children's Sunday School lessons. The man was given over to sexual "inappropriateness" most of his life. All his children suffered serious consequences. (Solomon had 1000 mothers in law!) David was a man after God's own heart by Grace, not by his performance. He was given the Spirit and the Kingdom to establish the promises to Jesus his descendant, NOT because of his worthiness.
Leaders need to understand just how unworthy David was or they too will be hitting on all the ladies and their kids will be screwed up!
Emily,
I am so sorry that you suffered because of so much false teaching. Your father's response is incomprehensible to me. To live in fear of your own brothers is such a tragedy. The man may have claimed to be a pastor, but he was a wolf, one who steals and destroys. So sorry for what you had to endure.
Pingback : Why I Cannot Support Frontline Family Ministries’ Abuse Prevention Week: Part Three, Kalyn’s Secret (Continued) | Homeschoolers Anonymous
Pingback : Why I Cannot Support Frontline Family Ministries’ Abuse Prevention Week: Part Five, Unmask the Predators | Homeschoolers Anonymous
Pingback : 4 Reasons Conservatives Should Join Liberals in Opposing the Duggars | Homeschoolers Anonymous
Pingback : Duggars and Dreams for My Children | Escape to the Education Underground
I am Catholic not Quiverful and have never suffered sexual abuse, no priest or nun has ever hurt me or Youth Pastor/Deacon. Although I practice Chastity/My version of Modesty- which is dressing appropriately for what your doing/where your going, I read my Bible/do devotions at least several times a week, I value and practice Christian morals and values and attend Church regularly,but I am nothing like the Duggars or Gothard is and neither is my family.
I am devout in my faith,but I do wear pants, shorts in the summer time,bikinis to the beach, I drive my own car, listen to contemporary music/watch TV,and I am University educated and work part-time because I can't find a full time teaching position where I live right now. I am almost 30 years old unmarried, still live with my folks for financial reasons and childless, by Gothard and Duggar standards I am an old maid and breaking every rule of their book- I am not married and I am working, I wear pants and went to University.
I stumbled upon this site by the recommendation of someone. I strongly believe Americans should really get to know about the Duggars and how pro-Gothard they are. They have everyone fooled that they are a regular Christian family with many children, the Bates have done this too. These families are pro-gothard and they should have no place in American Mainstream television. Please let me know what your thoughts are on the Duggars and Bates families and email me at [email protected]
To me the Duggars scare me at times, with how controlling they are, and how they marry off their children so soon to strangers. Josh and Anna barely knew each other when they got married, same thing goes for Jill and Jessa, no kissing before marriage what does that have to do with Chastity- I thought Chastity was waiting for marriage to have sex? No wearing pants what does that have to do with Modesty? I mean I think when your skating, skiing, on a windy day your actually more like to get unwanted attention from skirts then you are from wearing jeans or snow pants. Obviously I wouldn't got to Church in a bikinis or beach shorts or work. But when I am home it is plus 30 outside or hanging out with friends by the pool what's wrong with wearing summer wear? Not being allowed to be a working female or go to a university or regular school what does that have to do with Christ? Having to have long curled hair what does that have to do with Christ? Why are so many Americans fascinated by the Duggars? Why do so many Watch the Duggars? I'd like someone who knows more about the Gothard movement to email me. Because I don't understand this movement much at all.
I am new here. Did not grow up ATI. I was homeschooled and taught sound doctrine from my parents and Calvary chapel church in cali, had no real standard of modesty, but had wonderful first gen Christians and homeschooling parents who were faithful to do the best they could. With that being said, I am confused looking at this article in isolation from the other disgusting events Mr. B has committed/ been accused of.
Looking at this from a purely outsiders perspective with no presuppositions it appears to be a thought provoking tool for young people to empower them in bad situations, giving them lots of options to consider and use their brains. I in no way got the impression of a "formula" that a victim would get caught up in. The umbrella chart appears to be a very good way to help young adults conduct themselves in the work force, when considering the laws of the land, and in tough parenting situations (not abuse, but perhaps with a non-believing parent). The Character Sketches also did not really have too much focus on blaming the person but instead "if this was you, what should you do?" To say that it is all wrong because someone who was in a different situation MIGHT feel condemnation because they didn't do it "right" is like not letting your kids watch fire safety videos because they were in a fire once and didn't follow the exit plan.
I am in no way defending this man's work or doctrine, but judging by this response letters to the group of pastors challenging him, he has a lot of correct head knowledge (spouting off additional convictions for anyone who wants to follow him), but his personal life clearly shows it is not heart knowledge. To an outsider with no bent either way, these seems to empower the potential victim by showing them how to avoid a situation at all costs by examining a biblical real life example (oh and as a victim, Tamar, you did nothing wrong, and your brother took care of the skunk, so there). So am I missing something? Or maybe you can give your alternative character sketch?
Oh and don't mess around with my kids, sexual offense one time is one time too many. Forgiveness can happen...behind bars.
I am in favor of taking as objective and neutral of a stance as reasonably possible and not forcing the worst interpretation possible on something. It matters that we engage what a person is actually saying and not necessarily what someone accuses their words could possibly be taken to mean. A critical consideration here would be how the umbrella diagram and the other teachings were actually used, both by Bill and his close associates as well as by actual parents in the system. You specified "not abuse," but is that your assumption or something rising from the material? Please don't hear me being combative. I offer those as sincere responses.
I would push back that your reading of Tamar glosses over what the text says. "And Tamar lived in her brother Absalom’s house, a desolate woman." (from 2 Samuel 13:20) It is well-known that things could be very difficult for a disgraced woman in that time. That sad reality is confirmed for us when the scriptural accounts sums it up that she went on to live as a desolate woman. It's a heart-wrenchingly sad summary. Your summary of "so there" is shocking to me. Killing the offender does not remove a victim's wounds or turn back time so that things go back to how they were before. I don't think Scripture is saying "so there" in the least.
Pingback : How Christian Homeschool Leaders Have Addressed Domestic Violence Isn’t Ok | Homeschoolers Anonymous
This RG article seems to be a good place place a link on an expose about the Duggar family, whom are well known as spokespersons for ATI/IBLP.
Typical mishandling and coverup of sexual misconduct/criminal activity by Josh Duggar. Read more below, space placed after www to break any links:
www. dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3091501/Unsealed-police-report-reveals-Jim-Bob-Michelle-Duggar-covered-eldest-son-Josh-confessed-repeatedly-fondling-girls-teen-case-went-police-2006-Oprah-concerns.html
This article strikes me as being further proof of the absolute wrongness of the teaching about how victims are at fault for the behavior of the predators that prey upon them. Disgusting.
Thanks for the link, this article was very complete, with more information than on some of the other news sites. How very very sad for the victims, and how disturbing!
That article prompted me to do a web search and I ended up here. Thank you to all who are at recoveringgrace for helping to clarify these issues. I agree that the ultra authoritarian style of parenting and church structure is a breeding ground for allowing sexual sins to not be dealt with. I see the push to keep women from being trained to work so that they have no resources to leave an abusive situation. I think for many, it's done without realizing what they are setting themselves up for. I ran/run in these circles a little and am so relieved to find out that the "umbrella" of authority is not God's way. It's taken me several years to change my thinking. I've made some big mistakes in my past by blindly obeying a church leader's directions, against my intuition (although it was never as bad as outright sin, there was inappropriate abuse of authority that I allowed myself to be under, thinking I was obeying God). Also, I never planned for a career, which I truly regret now, since my own husband has fallen away from the faith and is almost abusive, just not quite there yet, so I haven't left yet. I also feel tremendously guilty about my desires to leave, thinking that I will be disobeying God and cutting off my relationship with Him. And it's scary to think of not being able to support myself and kids. I am teaching my girls to prepare for a career and that if things get to the point where they are reportable, we will contact the police the first time and leave immediately. They know the plan and he does too...at which point he threatened that if I ever call the police on him he will leave me. That surprised me too, because why didn't he say something like: I'm not treating you right and I'm sorry you are close to calling the police on me. I should treat you better. Instead he turned it into a threat, which in my case, if it come to the point where he needs to be gone, then that would be the best thing. Something else that comes to mind...if I leave before he actually does something physical/reportable, he would get custody of the kids without me and that thought really scares me and has helped me stay married just so I can watch over his treatment of the kids. I know I'm ranting about myself, but I wrote it all to help anyone who wants to understand, a little of what it's like to be in these circles and in a situation where they don't feel like it's right to leave and don't feel like there is any way to get help and all the scary stuff involved if you do decide to leave. I would risk losing my kids to CPS just because I can't provide for them financially....my husband would quit his job and live with his friend and it just would be terrible.
Crystal,
My heart goes out to you. I highly recommend the website cryingoutforjustice.com, which is a Christian website about abuse that might be helpful to you. I also recommend Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. It is a very good book with practical advice about the legal system and law enforcement, etc.
There are lots of women at cryingoutforjustice.com who are trying to figure out their next steps and what they should do on a practical level about their situations. When you are in the middle of the tornado, it can be very difficult to know which end is up and what is true and what is not true.
"They know the plan and he does too...at which point he threatened that if I ever call the police on him he will leave me. That surprised me too, because why didn't he say something like: I'm not treating you right and I'm sorry you are close to calling the police on me. I should treat you better."
This is very insightful for you to say. I think it is very wise for you to have an escape plan. I will be praying for you, and I hope you find some good resources in your area. You are loved by God, and he would not want someone to mistreat you.
Pingback : Sexual abuse is always a big deal | Sincerely, Chelsea
The Lord said to follow the laws of the land and seeing as pedophilia is against the laws of America AND the church he should be tried and judged. If, through the twisting of the Word, you do not think the pedophile has broken God's law then he has DEFINITELY broken the laws of the land.
And, as this post mentions blame....how can an innocent (ie: not even at an age of consent for baptism be to blame?)
This kind of stuff is why Christians are seen as nasty, judgmental horrors put to destroy women and children. Makes me sick to my stomach at how the Word is twisted about and used to exploit and keep women and children and their will under the thumb of some man.
Shame.
Pingback : Gothard’s ATI and the Duggar Family’s Secrets | Homeschoolers Anonymous
Not to put too fine a point on all this but "what a bunch of horse hockey this is"!!
how did i ever listen to bg and his teachings?!?!?! wow, seeing this again after 20 years makes my heart and my stomach sick. no wonder we still have people feeling justified for hiding their sin!!
That story about Dinah...first, the word translated as 'rape' may not really mean that, may mean more like 'not marital intercourse' without overtones of coercion or so I have read. Plus the story is more interesting than that: if I had to conjecture, I would say Dinah was sneaking off to meet him. Either way, he fll madly in love with her and persuaded his father she was the only woman for him.
The father was a modern-minded man. he saw that this could be a way of joining the two groups, as he suggested to the Hebrews. We will share everything, he said, and our children will inter-marry...of course anathema to the Hebrews.
But they pretended to discuss and cam e back and said, if you want to do this, we will do it. But one proviso: you have to join us, not the other way around...and we have a special covenant with the Lord: circumcision. Yes, guys, if you want this thing, you will have to be circumcised..all of you, tonight.
Circumcised with what?It was the Bronze Age! Dull bronze implements, sawing at the foreskin..or possibly sharp flint knives...think on it, guys....
There follows a hilarious scene where you can see the king very rapidly explaining the demands to his people before vanishing inside before they can assimilate the idea. anyway, they do it. They must have sure loved their king.
And then the Hebrews wait two days, for maximum swelling and incapacitation. And "when they were sore" they Hebrews fell on them, needing only two brothers and their men to wipe out everyone, and retake Dinah back home.
Your reflection on Dinah gives new shading to the NT phrase: "the party of circumcision"!
Pingback : Thoughts on the Josh Duggar Scandal | One So Loved
Pingback : How the Fundamentalist and Patriarchal Teachings Create Abusive Atmospheres: Part 2 | lifeofgraceandpeace
Pingback : What Sexual Abuse Counseling Can Do to Help You
I remember blaming every problem in my marriage on myself. I must not be submissive enough, godly enough, something enough. Maybe it was something in my past that God was punishing me for. Something that deserved twenty years hard labor! My husband, now deceased, was happy for me to take on this blame. I didn't think to wonder if it was all me and I deserved abuse for over 18 years. I felt any husband would be godly if his wife was right with God. What a heavy burden for me to carry! One day the thought occurred to me. If a really godly woman married Jeffrey Dahmer or Charled Manson, could she still make a happy home?
Except for the fact that our husbands differ, your first two sentences describe the way I thought to a t. I am glad to be free of this satanic thinking, and I hope you are at peace now as well.
Spawned in the pit of hell. Seven years of counseling, but not simply from bg teaching. Many hard lessons later, much more healthy. Phew. Take the heavy backpack off. Walk freely.