This is my real name, and below is my real story.
The Awkward First Meeting
Rachel at age 17
It was the final session of the 1992 Knoxville conference, and the choir and orchestra were starting to gather for the big rendition of “It Will Be Worth it All.” I was supposed to be playing flute in the orchestra, but my flute was missing from the orchestra room where I had put it. I was standing beneath the stage in the “restricted” area trying to figure out what to do, when Bill Gothard tapped me on the shoulder. I was pretty flustered at meeting him in the flesh! He asked me my name and how long my family had been in ATI. His very next question was if I was committed to courtship, as he gave me an obvious once-over. I’m sure I looked like a “rebel” as I pushed the limits with the mandatory blue and white. I had on a straight skirt that barely covered my knees (with a sizable slit in back!) and big hoop earrings. I wasn’t a rebel. I was a good girl who loved God and had a good relationship with her parents—I just didn’t go for the neck bows and navy blue jumpers. I told him that I had never dated but had just committed to courtship that week. His next question was, “Have you ever considered coming to Headquarters?” I told him that I was only 15, and that I knew that was too young to work at IBLP Headquarters. He said he couldn’t believe I was only 15 and that I looked much more mature than that. He told me to write him a letter about myself and what I had learned that week at the conference and to give it to him before I left that day. Then, referring to the Headquarters question, he said, “We’ll see,” gave me a little wink, and went up on stage.
I sat down right then and wrote a letter about the life-changing week it had been for me. I wrote about the “crossroads” I was at in life, but that I had chosen to follow God and not the world. I signed it, “Your Obedient Daughter.” When the final session ended, I tried to give it to the security guy under the stage. He told me that I should give it directly to Bill. I looked at the long line of people waiting to talk to him beneath the stage and told the guy that I couldn’t wait in that line. I needed to find my family. He told me to go on stage and just give it to him. I gave Bill my letter and he held my hand as he said a long, drawn-out “God bless you” and looked deep into my eyes, which were filling with tears. Overwhelmed with gratitude for this man, I misread the emotional moment and spontaneously hugged him. He stiffened like a board and I quickly drew back, horrified at what I had done, and realizing that several hundred people were watching us from below the stage. I quickly told him thank you and goodbye and walked red-faced off the stage. Later that day, I sobbingly told my family that I had done the “stupidest thing ever”—hugged Mr. Gothard! I told them about the events of the morning. My younger brother thought it was hilarious and teased me during the 15+ hour drive home that we’d probably get kicked out of ATI since I tried to “hit on” the founder.
Actually the opposite happened.
We had barely arrived home from the long drive when Bill called to say that my letter had deeply touched him and he wanted me to come to HQ as soon as possible. My parents were as astounded as I was! They told him that it would be an honor, but we honestly did not have the money for a plane ticket at that time. He said that he would completely take care of that. They agreed for me to go to Headquarters for three weeks—I was so excited.
Special Favor
As soon as I arrived at Headquarters in Oak Brook, Mr. Gothard called the apartment where I was living and said that he wanted to see me in his office right away. One of my roommates said with raised eyebrows, “Oh, I guess you’re a VIP!”
Bill welcomed me warmly and told me that he looked forward to getting to know me, that his door was always open to me, and to come to him if there was anything I ever needed. As if to prove his point, he got some cash out of his desk drawer and gave it to me to get “whatever I needed.” (He did this on several other occasions, too.) I was relieved that he didn’t mention the hugging incident at Knoxville and felt like that was behind us.
I felt very comfortable with him as a fatherly friend and was in his office daily—either of my own accord or because he summoned me. He asked me extensive, probing questions from the beginning about possible sins I had committed and needed to repent of. I really couldn’t come up with a whole lot. I was a first-born, a rule-follower, and I hadn’t rebelled against my parents for much of anything. I didn’t even mind being home-schooled. Finally, we stumbled on to something. Even though I didn’t like rock music, I admitted to liking a few pop (love) songs that I had heard. He had me dissect the words of the two songs that I liked, and I saw how ungodly they were. We knelt beside his couch to confess this to God. That was the first time he held my hand as I prayed and cried.
I also shared with him that I was convicted about giving up my once-a-month job as a model for a local department store. I had chosen to wear only the more modest clothes, but now the whole thing seemed worldly and had too much focus on the outward appearance. Plus, rock music was played at our fashion shows in the mall. He was totally enthralled with this and immediately told others, sensationalizing it to be much more than it was. I was embarrassed as the word spread around Headquarters that I was a model. I was constantly telling people that it wasn’t that big a deal and that it was very non-professional and small-time. He put me on the spot several times to give my testimony as a “former model.”
He told me that he wanted to keep me close to him, so I started as one of his personal assistants (secretaries) in his office. However, at age 15, I had pathetic secretarial skills and no understanding of how the organization ran or who was important. Plus, he already had a very competent office team and, although they were kind to me, I’m sure they felt like they were babysitting. After about a week, he suggested that the ATI department could use my help in filing everything after the Knoxville conference. I was relieved and happy to work there instead.
Lunch Dates
Even though I wasn’t working in his office anymore, he made a point to connect with me at either the morning staff meeting or at lunch almost every day, often inviting me to sit across from him at the head table. A few times, I was already sitting at another table visiting with people and he would motion me to move to his table instead. During one of the times I was sitting across from him at the head table, I felt his foot nudge mine. I pulled back instantly thinking that we must have just collided somehow and I mumbled a “Sorry.” I looked up and saw him smiling at me—not at all apologetic. It happened several more times in days following; he would put his shod foot against mine and nudge me slowly, or try to cross ankles with me. Then once I felt his sock foot against my leg and starting to explore up the back of my calf. The tablecloths were pretty long, so things under the table were mostly hidden. However, I remember thinking that if anyone dropped a fork and got down to retrieve it, they would see what he was doing and they would get the wrong impression. I kept my feet swung back under my chair from then on and there was no more footsie (at mealtimes, anyway).
Protection
I was amazed that Bill seemed to know where I was, what I was doing, and who I was talking with at all times. He controlled my friendships, telling me specifically which girls to avoid and directing me to more established, trusted, older girls. There was a 17-year-old boy who came to Headquarters about the same time I did. We were in some of the same newcomer orientations together. We had only talked to each other a couple of times (in public), and mildly flirted. Somehow Bill got wind of it and asked me if it was true. I didn’t deny it. He gently reprimanded me and told me to be more careful in my relationships, especially those with the opposite sex. However, he told the boy that he was being sent home. [Click here to read the story of Marcus, who was fired for talking to Rachel.]
Bill was extremely protective of me. Even in those first few weeks, he told me that I had a special place in his heart and he knew God was going to work through me in big ways in the future. My initial three-week invitation to Headquarters was coming to an end and Bill said that he wanted me to stay on indefinitely and could easily change the return ticket. But the last day I was there my mom had a late-term miscarriage and was hospitalized. It was a no-brainer, I had to go home as soon as possible to help my family.
Invitations
After being home only a few weeks and helping my mom recover, I received a written invitation to go to Australia with a group from Headquarters. That was followed up by a phone call from Bill with a personal invitation both for the trip and to come back to serve in the ministry at Headquarters. Since he already knew that our family’s finances could be a reason I wouldn’t go, he offered again to fly me to Oak Brook, and told us to raise as much money for the trip as we could, but that whatever we couldn’t pay would be covered by IBLP. My parents agreed that I could go on the trip in October and stay at Headquarters for two months after that. However, my mom was insistent that I come home and finish my high-school education before I would work anywhere “indefinitely.” [Side note: My mother, as a former teacher, took our home education very seriously. She was later crushed by an ATI family coordinator who visited our home and harshly criticized her for focusing too much on academics and not making the Wisdom Booklets her primary teaching source. He told her that “knowledge puffeth up,” and that ATI wanted her to focus more on character.]
I returned to Headquarters, and again received much attention from and favor with Bill. He gave me a choice where I wanted to work and I said I would love to learn how to cut hair, since there was a young woman there who had extensive training and was opening a modified “salon” in the basement of one of the girls’ housing facilities. He told me that would be perfect, especially since I was such a great example of how girls should wear their hair—long, soft, curls flowing down their back. He told me often how much he loved my hair and would quote a verse about hair being a woman’s glory as he stroked my hair with his hand or shifted my hair from the front to behind my shoulder or vice versa. He told me I should never cut it short, and once, when I wore my hair in an up-do, he frowned slightly and said that it looked much better down when it “framed my face.” He also noticed when I got a few inches cut off and wondered why I cut it. I explained that the ends were split and unhealthy and it would grow faster this way.
One time, I was invited to join him and two assistants on a road trip to the Northwoods Conference Center. His female assistant was sitting in the back of the car with him answering correspondence and I was sitting directly in front of Bill while the other male assistant drove. We had driven a few hours when Bill suddenly leaned forward and roughly grabbed almost all my hair close to the nape of my neck in his fist and whispered through clenched teeth, “I love your hair.” It took me by complete surprise and I immediately looked at the other two in the car, but they acted like they hadn’t seen or heard anything.
Secret Spy
I was 16 now. Bill asked me if I would be willing to do a special job for him. He said that he completely trusted me, and asked if I could be “eyes and ears” for him around Headquarters. He wanted me to let him know if people were not upholding the standards that were necessary to keep the ministry “above reproach.” Essentially, he was asking me to spy for him, but he put it in much more attractive words as a necessary service. He warned me that this arrangement would be strictly between him and me, and I could not tell anyone else about this. I agreed. And, to my shame, I did tattle on several people (never my friends—even if they did bend the rules—only people I didn’t know well or had heard rumors about). I would feel guilty, though, when I heard about action taken against them because of something I had passed on to Bill. I thought I was obeying my authority by giving him info that he requested; despite his teachings on the subject, he seemed quite willing and eager to listen to those “bad reports”! However, from my observation, Bill never used Matthew 18 as a model in his own dealings with staff members. Discipline, especially with males, was quick, severe, and completely lacking in grace or second chances.
One incident, much later during the summer of ’94, concerned a report I passed on to Bill about a staff member named “Charlie” (not his real name) being “mean” to my brother on the lawn care and construction crew. Bill immediately called Charlie into a meeting with me present, and told him that he wanted to teach him a lesson, that “people were more important than projects.” He fired Charlie and sent him home the very afternoon that I reported this to him. I did not like Charlie, but I felt bad that he was given absolutely no chance to change his behavior once it was presented to him. I always felt that Bill did this more as a “favor” to me than a punishment to Charlie, and to show me that I had power and influence with him.
Confirmation of “Charlotte’s Story”
Rachel and “Charlotte”
I lived in one of the IBLP-owned homes with four other young women, including Charlotte, who was about my age. There were rumors that she was “an encouragement case.” She didn’t say much about her family, but she talked incessantly about Bill and it was easy to tell that he was the center of her universe. She would randomly brag that she always did her hair a certain way because Bill said he loved it that way, would say she was wearing this certain dress because it was his favorite, and so on. She once told me that Bill had said she was beautiful but that the gap between her front two teeth was “distracting” from her face. He said he would arrange for her to get that fixed.
When I moved to that house, Bill warned me specifically not to discuss anything with Charlotte. He didn’t give me any details about her other than she had “issues” and could not be trusted. He double-checked a few days later to make sure I understood—I was not to be close friends with her. I got it.
Once, when I arrived home late at night after being in his office working on some project, Charlotte came into my room and peppered me with questions, “What did you and Mr. G talk about?” “Did you talk about me?” “Did you do anything other than talking?” I finally told her rudely, “It is none of your business!” She looked hurt but didn’t ask me any more about my relationship with Bill. I thought she was just jealous because Bill paid special attention to me. We remained just casual acquaintances that happened to live in the same house. I had no idea of the pain she had been enduring at that time, but looking back there were many signs that I ignored because I was told by Bill to avoid her, and because I was an immature 16-year-old.
Courtship?
I went back home again after two months as my parents had requested, even though Bill objected. They said that, until I graduated, I could work at Headquarters only in the summer, along with my brother. I fulfilled my mother’s high-school requirements by taking my GED at age 17, then I returned to Headquarters “indefinitely” and chose to work in the Basic CARE Department.
Bill’s office was right next to Basic CARE, with a copy room in between. Since I was the errand-girl and, later, the Basic CARE secretary for a while, I spent a fair amount of time in the copy room. Bill could see me from his office desk and would sometimes come in and close the door (or leave it wide open!) and stroke my back or arm while I was copying. Sometimes he gave me a side hug, or held my hand and leaned into me, all the while praising me that I was “such an encouragement to him” or an “energy giver” or a “great example to other girls.” I always felt so tense and tight in my chest when I’d see him coming over to me in the copy room, since it was a small, intimate area. His personal bathroom was also off the copy room, and I’m sure anyone in his office assumed that’s where he was going. When I would go in to make copies and he wasn’t in his office, I would feel relief and find it easier to breathe, and I would try to get my copies done as quickly as possible before he got back.
My brother was living at the Indianapolis Training Center (ITC) at that time, so Bill invited me to join him and his small office team any time they drove to Indy, so I could visit my brother. If I happened to sit beside Bill in the car or van, he would always sit with his legs as wide as possible so that our outer thighs or knees touched. I would cross my legs to move away from him; otherwise, I would find his leg right against mine. Often his wandering foot would try to find mine. He would sometimes let his hand or a few fingers rest lightly on my leg, especially if there was a book or paper on my lap that would cover it.
On a couple of different overseas plane trips, specifically to Australia ’93 and Taiwan ’94, he sent his male assistant to find me during the flight and switch places with me because Bill wanted to see me. One time we were flying during the night and I fell asleep beside him, sitting in the aisle seat. I woke up a few hours later and there was a blanket over me, and Bill was awake and smiling down at me like he had been watching me for awhile. I apologized for falling asleep and for blocking his path if he had needed to get out to the aisle. He smiled and said that he didn’t mind at all. Another time, a stewardess stopped, looked at Bill and then me, frowned, and asked, “Is this your original seat, young lady?” I said no. She told me to return to my original seat immediately, which I did—with great haste and inexplicable embarrassment—returning his assistant back to the seat by Bill.
Even though it was nothing totally new, I began to feel strange about his attention toward me. It’s a weird feeling when you’re a naïve young girl and someone 43 years older than you makes you feel special and dirty at the same time.
Maybe it was the physical affection that would have gotten anyone else sent home immediately? Maybe it was because more than one person had made snide comments about me being his “pet” or his “type” or his “favorite” or a “Gothard girl”? Or maybe it was because I was always chosen for special trips, all-expenses-paid overseas trips, special privileges and positions, and special speaking and video “star” opportunities? But he had told me from the beginning that I was someone important and “special” to him and to the ministry. I, of course, noticed that I was not the only girl that he paid special attention to. He surrounded himself with both office assistants and “travel buddies” who were usually the most attractive girls at Headquarters. They were almost always very young, too—my age or younger! Even this didn’t diminish the fact that he made me feel like I was very different from anyone else, and he had a special place in his heart reserved only for me.
Bill reminded me often to give only encouraging or good reports to my parents, and would sometimes ask me when I had last talked to them, and what I had shared with them? A few times he suggested I call my parents right from his office and, instead of giving me privacy, he sat there and listened to me talk to them. I felt strangely inhibited talking to them with Bill listening to my every word. However, late one night in my house, I finally told my parents on the phone that Bill Gothard made me feel uncomfortable with all the attention he showed me. I didn’t mention all the physical touching. To my parents’ credit, they didn’t react negatively towards me. Even though they knew very few details, they had noticed and seen the special favor I received from him and it rather surprised them, too. My dad said, “Well, he is single. Maybe Mr. Gothard is acting that way because he intends to court you?” The thought of that made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. I had always thought of him as fatherly, almost grandfatherly. Part of me reasoned that there was no way he could be thinking that, but then his actions said differently… If it had been anyone close to my age, it would be a reasonable conclusion. But I was only 18. He was 61! After that, I started to avoid him more. As I pulled away emotionally, he seemed to notice. On several occasions he reminded me of my first letter to him, when I signed “Your Obedient Daughter.” This added to my confusion. Was he appealing to me as his daughter? I started to find excuses not to go to staff meetings, or on road trips with him and only a few others. I avoided eye contact with him and tried to duck out of staff gatherings before he could talk to me.
Goodbye
I was becoming increasingly unhappy at Headquarters, so when an opportunity was presented me to go work as a nanny for a prominent ATI family the summer of ’95, I took it! Bill gave his blessing only because he knew and respected this family so much. He told me that he fully expected me to come right back after my one-year commitment there.
Instead, God opened up a job teaching ESL [English as a Second Language] at a local college after my nannying job, and I never returned to Headquarters. However, I did work on IBLP’s TESL [Teaching English as a Second Language] course at Bill’s insistence, and returned to various training centers to teach it for a week at a time for several years. I also went on several more trips to Taiwan to teach ESL. During this time I also came to several conferences at Knoxville to speak or lead break-out sessions for students. Bill asked me numerous times to return to Headquarters, and again offered me any position I wanted. I remained firm that I would only be involved with the IBLP TESL ministry in a very limited way and didn’t want to leave my job in South Dakota, where I was teaching immigrant students. Even though I couldn’t articulate it then, in my heart I knew I didn’t want to go back to the double standards and mind control I had experienced when I lived at Headquarters. I had tasted freedom in Christ and experienced grace, and it was sweet.
And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. —John 8:32
Some people might wonder why it has taken many of us so long to share our story and experiences. Firstly, it truly has taken more than 20 years to begin to process it all and to separate Biblical truth from Bill Gothard’s personal preferences, interpretation of Biblical passages and principles, and legalistic control over his followers. Secondly, after my family and I left ATI, we still mostly held a belief that Bill was basically a good man who made some inappropriate and wrong judgment calls with me and had some hazy interpretations of Scripture. After all, God had used Bill and the IBLP ministry for much spiritual growth and amazing opportunities for me. He was only human and single, right? Plus, we left and really never looked back. We found healthy churches and freedom in Christ and experienced grace instead of just law.
It has been only recently that my eyes have been opened to see how wrong Bill’s actions have been with young girls (including myself) and also the far-reaching damage that some of his teachings have had on people who have never even met him. It has been difficult to go back into some painful memories of being used and misused by Bill as a minor. When I contacted Recovering Grace, I was told that I wasn’t alone in those experiences. I was one of many girls who are coming forward with very similar stories of being “groomed” to accept behavior that is commonly accepted as sexual harassment. One of the main reasons that I chose to speak out now is that Bill continues to operate as he always has—behind fiercely loyal people willing to look the other way while he does what he wants to do in the name of spiritual headship.
People might also ask how my family even got into this program in the first place. My parents were not unintelligent people. Both had master’s degrees. They went to IBLP seminars and joined ATI because they, as well as probably many other families, wanted something better for their kids than the free love and anti-authority ’60s and ’70s that they grew up in. ATI was touted as much more than a homeschool program, it was a Way of Life—and it certainly was that. ATI provided a certain camaraderie of raising your kids against the norm and hoping that they would change the world. It was idealistic and simplistic in its approach, with formulas for supposed success in all areas of life.
I am not bitter or vengeful, although I know Gothard loyalists would love to portray me, and others, as such for just honestly telling our stories. I view them with compassion because I used to be in that camp. We were “groomed” to have unquestioning loyalty to our authorities, among other things. It seems so obvious and easy to spot once you’re on the outside. However, when you’re on the inside, the teaching and expectations can be very self-deceiving. I also know that there is a third group, neither inside nor outside, of those who are still part of IBLP or support it, but do not do so blindly. Certain things have bothered them for years, but they haven’t spoken up because, well, it’s “complicated” on a few different levels. I understand the hard position they are in, and I pray for their boldness and wisdom.
Many godly and sincere people have gone to Bill and the IBLP board over the last few decades of his ministry with immense concern and have prayerfully used the Matthew 18 approach, but it seemed to fall on defensive, damning, or deaf ears. Because of the lack of repentance and true change, the time for private appeals is past. The time for public appeals and “reveals” is here. My hope is that eyes would be opened to the truth, and that the wounded would find healing and grace.
—Rachel
See how the experiences Ruth, Annette, Charlotte, Rachel, Meg, Lizzie, and Grace had with Bill Gothard fit together chronologically here, and behaviorally here.
Rachel married her best friend, Ben, who loves and supports her no matter the length of her hair. Together they are praying for wisdom in raising their children (four boys and a little girl on the way!) to be “mighty in spirit” with a primary focus on Jesus, not on principles, standards, or a man.
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Thank you, Rachel, for sharing your story. May the Lord bless you and your family for being brave to come forward.
I think the level of indoctrination that your family faced is evident in your father's reaction to Bill's attentions "is he trying to court you?". I think a normal reaction would be to go contact the man who is 43 years the senior of his daughter and tell him to go pound sand. I know my Dad would have.
Grateful to know your family was able to get free and find Grace.
I feel so badly for Rachel and all of these girls. My parents were involved in the ATIA program in the 1980s. There was such an emphasis on appearance. I remember being required to only leave my room when I was completely dressed, to show that the school day had started. I didt mind being dressed, but I did mind what my mom and my sisters had to wear: the prototypical Gothard fantasy package: long dresses, embellished collars, hosiery, and mid heeled dress shoes. I remember hating how I looked and how it was the most impractical outfits for doing anything other than looking demure and feminine.
Did anyone else have to do matching outfits with their sister(s)? This also occurred occasionaly with us..especially when we had to go to a homeschool meeting or the Basic or Advanced seminar in Dallas twice a year.
I think that the rules of deportment (including hair length) and dress were engineered to reinforce our frailty and submission, imho.
Liz
Elizabeth, I remember that rule about not leaving your room until completely dressed! I was shocked out of my mind by it!
I attended a conference at the ITC and the fire alarms went off in the middle of the night. The room leader actually blocked the doorway until we were all dressed in our navy and white. She and I had a heated altercation, though, because I pulled my skirt and blouse on over my nightwear and slipped on my shoes with no stockings. She didn't think that was appropriate and wanted me to doff the nightwear and get properly dressed. I didn't think burning to death on an upper floor of a hotel was appropriate and refused to change. I pushed past her and went down the hall to the stairwell and made my way to the lobby. I am pretty sure she reported me to leadership, but what were they gonna do, call my parents and explain to them that it was more important to be properly dressed than to be alive?
Until recently Pensacola Christian College faced a lot of pushback for the same rule.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/05/17/this-school-has-the-worst-fire-safety-policy-youve-ever-seen/
The author of that article did not really listen to what that college representative said. The words "if they can" and "the closets are right by the doors" were ignored. PCC's policy has always been safety first. Period. I am a graduate. I experienced all of this in the early part of the 2000's.
So saying they had faced pushback is not accurate. It's also not accurate to say they had the same rule. If you saw those closets, you would see why this is suggested. In fact, there are no closets! The rack where clothes are stored are right by the room doors with no division between room and closet. It is a simple matter of reach and throw.
A little accuracy would go a long way here. This policy is nothing like PCC's (which is a suggestion, and it does make a difference how it is worded). To my knowledge, no young lady has ever faced disciplinary measures for inappropriate attire during a fire drill, and I did see many in sleep pants during my days there.
Thanks for sharing that story, Wendy. I always wondered a bunch of things about the logistics of HQ and the training centers(and how closely families were monitored) and this was one question I had, about fire drills/emergencies. Keep on sharing.
Hey Wendy,
This rule was applied in our home as well as Gothard training centers. I remember hating being dressed up all the time when no one else was. I have bitter memories of my non ATI friends being in jeans and tennis shoes for some casual, while I was always in a dress and dress shoes.
In reflection, I think it was by total design. It is harder to run, rough-house, or do active things (climbing into a truck, running up bleachers at a ball games, or even playing games in the church gym when you are dressed like a doll. Many of the guys would never pay attention to me because I looked way high maintenance and I looked like I would not be any fun or could not be "one of the guys"
I know it seems trivial, but missing out on those kinds of friendships and socialization was designed to isolate us. I know I must have seemed like such a stuck up princess to many. If they had only known why.
That's the thing about using laws to govern ourselves versus grace and being led of the Spirit. These extraneous peripheral laws outside of the scope of Scripture can often cause us harm because we are not critically thinking about what is going on. I remember Lori Voeller in her message on blanket training telling us that her child was so "trained" to stay on a blanket that she had been calling the child and she would not dare get off the blanket. The child knew this was a baiting technique. Lori thought this was admirable. I was horrified. I was thinking, "Yeah Lori, what if the house is burning down and your child can't think for him or herself about getting off of a stupid blanket because they are so fearful of doing the wrong thing." Did you know that the word "repentance" is related to critical thinking or changing your mind? Even in the medical community, we are always trained to think about the bigger picture and about what is going on to make choices and decisions. This is one of the marvelous things Jesus came to do!!! He abolished the law in His body so that we could be new. Romans 7.
Gothard’s defense was pretty opaque if they never planned to use these ridiculously dangerous rules to try to excuse their client: “When he was rubbing girls’ legs up to their knees with his feet he was just checking to make sure they only had slips on underneath their blue skirts.” “When he was adjusting their blouses & flipping their hair to the back or else to the front, he was just looking for a chemise strap that might be lurking as proof that they had donned uniforms over their sleepwear.”
Because, you know, if a woman isn’t showing too much that’s actually observable, you gotta go ruffle-up the clad parts of her body in order to uncover any immodesty!!! What a hard job Gothard had there at the training centers.
Our family was also involved in this movement. My daughters and I wore 'all the right clothes'.......that is, until one day an adult piano student of mine asked why we did this. I said it was supposedly more modest to wear dresses, and that's what our husbands liked us to wear. She went home and talked to her husband about it. He said, "Of course that's what we like - easy access!" Then I noticed that when we had 'family time', as in Bible reading, my husband would lie on the floor and peer up his daughters' dresses. We wore pants after that. Now reading this I'm wondering if there is a spiritual connection........that when one belongs to an institution where the leadership is immoral, does that spiritually affect those under him? Many families I know from ATIA have had troubles galore.
I knew a family who was into ATI/IBLP at a church I used to go to 20 years ago (no, the then-pastor was not into Gothardism, thank God! -- and AFAIK, neither is the current pastor). I Googled them here while back, and noticed separate addresses for them, which seems to imply that they have, of all things, divorced. I know they have four daughters (whether or not they've had other kids since then, I don't know), who all wore dresses at all times, and though I cannot prove this, I can't help but wonder if the father of that family, who shall remain nameless, just in case my suspicions are wrong, had acted inappropriately with them.
Thanks for sharing your story. I find it incredible that he was basically "two timing" you and Charlotte at the same time. That is so creepy.
and keeping the two women he was two timing in the same house???
any man in his right mind keeps his women as far apart as possible.
oh wait, BG is in his righteous mind, so God can't help but bless!
Actually I think that the predator gets the thrill out of the risk taking part of the experience. Whether it was our President or other serial offenders many times their actions were right in broad daylight.
Not sure where to post this comment - since it isn't directed to any particular story, but it needs to be discussed as another angle of ATI wrongdoing.
As I keep reading these articles, I am reminded of the fact that lots of young people were on staff in a work capacity and yet minors. How did ATI and Bill Gothard rationalize the legality of having minors on staff? I know for a fact that the Department of Labor is really picky about minors working. They do not care if you are home schooled or not. Even if ATI applied as workplace education program, it still would have had severe limitations.
Having experiences an employer audit by the Department of Labor, I know about such things - especially since we have home schoolers work for us. Fortunately, we passed with flying colors because we adhere to the rules strictly. We won't even allow a minor to work until the local high school lets out each day. I can't for a moment think that ATI could pass a DOL audit. Not in a million years!!
I have also been wondering about their labor practices. You can't just fire people without cause. You have to have a paper trail showing bad evaluations and attempts to remediate the person.
It's not that I would expect these teens or their families to blow the whistle on Gothard's firing practices at the time (too much loyalty and fear of giving a "bad report"), but I wonder if labor law violations could help close this ministry.
OH!!! I would LOVE to discuss Labor Violations! The child labor and safety violations alone are enough to cause a complete temporary shutdown. I can laugh about ATI now, until I remember that while my experience with it were 10 to 15 years ago, there are still ATI students TODAY experiencing the injustices and atrocities that I experienced way back in the day. Not cool. I was hushed on multiple topics regarding safety - usually by fellow teenage staffers... "Oh, just don't tell your parents what happened because they'll overreact. It would cause a lot of headache for Mr. So-and-So."
I think the most imminent danger that I was ever directly in at a training center was when I was working in the kitchen at age 15. A casual observer wouldn't notice, but an educated experience ADULT, of which training centers are quite SCARCE of, will freak out at the following scenario:
Dinner was supposed to be served at 5PM. It was 4:50PM. Because someone had "failed" and not started cooking the ground beef yet (you guessed it - tacos again), my 19-year-old supervisor informed me to start frying the FROZEN beef at 500 F (degrees!!!) in the "tilt skillet", in effort that it be ready in 10 minutes. I obeyed. By 5:56PM, I was so overwhelmed by the heat, I begged that someone else take over the job. Another worker in the kitchen did, of which I was grateful. I didn't know at the time how dangerous this cooking procedure was, except that thermally it was unpleasant. The latex gloves were literally melting onto the other worker's hands as he continually turned, tossed, and scraped the beef to keep it from burning black from the extreme heat. Also, I was unaware that all the oil in the skillet could have suddenly caught fire and consumed the man, and me, as I was standing nearby as moral support and pretending to still have some role in cooking the meat.
Oh, don't get me started!!! :) In some ways, my stories are incredulously hilarious and unbelievable, and in other ways, they are terrifying and appalling.
I wonder how much they rationalized it as "volunteering".
Some sort of class-action lawsuit by former employees definitely has potential. I personally know of situations where people working at HQ did not have sufficient funds to purchase food due to IBLP's practice of paying peanuts AND charging rent for the housing provided. No idea about statute of limitations on such things, however.
Actually you can't just let volunteers go ("fire") without cause either. You have to have a paper trail with them too. And just like employees, they have a right to see their personnel files.
VWhen I started working at HQ in April 1992, I was paid a flat sum of $100 per week (40 hors per week with some overtime), whereas those already on staff prior to 1992 were paid at least minimum wage.
I remember Gothard talking about this at a staff meeting that he had the law department (which at that time was staffed by students with no formal legal training - I think, but I could be wrong about that) looking for loopholes in the relevant regulations so that IBLP could continue this practice.
I guess they never found it as my paycheck was suddenly a lot larger a month or so later. Concerned that I had been "overpaid" I mentioned it to our department secretary who said that they had determined they had to pay us minimum wage. I can't remember if we got retroactive pay or not.
I just remember finding the comment so odd as it had been drilled into us how important it was to obey the law (even generally amoral things like speed limits) and yet here was IBLP aware they weren't in compliance and openly searching for the justification.
I guess obeying one's God appointed government authorities only goes so far.
My experience is almost exactly the same as Ryan's (came in March of 1992, though), except that I was initially paid $50 per week. My church from back home sent me $50 per month if I recall. I could barely afford basic toiletries. My family couldn't afford to support me as a "missionary" which is what it seemed like IBLP wanted to call me.
I couldn't afford to buy food, and they only fed us one meal a day. Because the girls in my house were buying their own food and couldn't afford to feed me on their wages, Bill said that I could come to the staff kitchen any time for breakfast items or leftovers. I came up for cereal bars and other processed food items from time to time, but it was quite a walk from my staff house and I worked long hours. I tended to go home from work and sleep. I lived on vitamins (which my mom sent) and yogurt for breakfast.
After a few months, I started to get a minimum wage paycheck, which if I recall in those days was a little more than $4 an hour. I regularly put in 80 hour weeks from the age of 17-21. Except for the few times our management was trying to show cause to hire more staff, I was not allowed to turn in my actual time card. I stopped keeping a regular time card, and just wrote in 8 hours per day on the sheet they gave me. When we were printing and packing up the materials for the ATIA Conference, we had to work around the clock and take turns taking short naps in the warehouse office.
I do remember one month when I was approved for every hour of work I actually did (my manager was a little afraid to actually turn it in), and I was told that my paycheck was the same as the married staff that month (this was told to me in the form of a mild scolding). I don't know how they lived. It wouldn't have added up to much more than $20k a year.
I think this is definitely worth looking into. It sounds like there have been many violations of labor laws over the years.
Ryan, I was in the law department in 95-96. We were largely Oak Brook College of Law students. I had one year of correspondence law school under my belt and was responsible for a lot of the immigration paperwork. Prior to OBCL, there were others also in correspondence law schools, but I don't know who was running the place.
Interesting point: in Charlottes story she talked about visa issues. We used a lot of H1-B visas. These were 'specialty work visas' which are typically used to attract very specific talent to the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa
Explaining the visa:
"The regulations define a "specialty occupation" as requiring theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor[1] including but not limited to biotechnology, chemistry, architecture, engineering, mathematics, physical sciences, social sciences, medicine and health, education, law, accounting, business specialties, theology, and the arts, and requiring the attainment of a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent as a minimum[2] (with the exception of fashion models, who must be "of distinguished merit and ability").[3] Likewise, the foreign worker must possess at least a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent and state licensure, if required to practice in that field. H-1B work-authorization is strictly limited to employment by the sponsoring employer."
I don't know if the degree requirement was included in the mid-nineties. It worked well with the Russians because I think that was politically acceptable. But we turned it into a catch all that really got abused. I got in a lot of trouble when one Chinese national was having trouble coming back from Canada on an H1-B visa that she probably didn't qualify for (copywriting and general office). She made a point of getting me in trouble and keeping me there. I had to grovel at Bill's office (probably between his evening cupcakes). It wasn't long before I was out of Headquarters.
I wrote this in another thread but Doug and I went to Big Sandy when it first opened to help out. My husband does lawn work for a living and so at our own expense, we went to help clear the land. They sort of offered us a job. Doug believes they didn't like us too much because Doug never was one to be a minion and neither am I. But the offer was to live in their dorms in community living with our family of 8 for no salary. We could sell our house and live off the proceeds until they ran out. I promise you that I am not making that up and that there were people there doing just that. There were people we knew of after that point who sold their homes, quit their jobs and went to work for ATI only to find that a salary never came and nothing was ever offered and they are still picking up the pieces. I did Wisdom Searchers for most of the 15 years we were in ATI and I was never given a salary. Someone paid our tuition for a few years but I don't believe that was Bill but one of the moms. One group of the moms gave me $250 once to help me go to Knoxville. I tried to get people to pay a little for that ministry but was told that this was an ungodly thing to do. So I quit asking for $5. I gave ATI a $10,000 Lietz microscope to aid in the starting of the medical department. For me, that was a huge gift. If anyone needed to sell that thing for money, it would be Doug and me. We thought we were giving into our children's futures. Imagine doing that and not being one of the privileged though. It was grilled into my head that a good holy women never worked outside the home. Eventually, I had to go back to work. I am a neonatal nurse at a children's hospital presently. At the ripe old age of 56, I went back and got my BSN and passed with honors. I won't lie. I had to fight a huge inward battle over that decision because it was so hard to give up my idea of what it means to be a holy woman. There are still people who I am in contact with that believe that a woman working outside the home is sinning. But instead, God has blessed me in my job. It is so rewarding to take care of these very sick children. When I think though that this man had plenty of plenty to pay everyone on staff a decent wage but instead hoarded the money, it makes me very very sad. I was always led to believe that Bill couldn't afford to pay anyone. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8. Now there is a fine Bible promise of cause and effect. Amen?
The people in Indy did not get paid minimum wage until somewhere around 98 or 99. Mr. McWha had to fight tooth and nail for that. Before that time we were given $100 a month, of course after taxes and tithes it was like $50.
@Pamela--Regarding McWhas: Yes, I believe that they often gave to staff out of their own personal money because they knew that we had needs. I am very grateful to them for their gracious care for us Indy people. They had a tough job.
Related to personnel files. I don't think many people were aware that a database was kept at HQ about each ATI student that staff interacted with.
In essence, it was a compilation of snitchery and personal opinions about the "quality" of individual ATI students. When given access to this list (because of work duties) a friend of mine was very shocked to read what had been written about them personally.
While I don't know about the legality of keeping such a gossip database, it is definitely something that should be demanded as part of the "personnel files" if such an action is taken by former employees/volunteers. I've mentioned this before in another comment somewhere, but I think it needs to be brought up often to raise awareness that such a document existed/exists. It is my opinion that even the "faithful" supporters of IBLP would be in for a shock to read the entries about themselves.
That's a bit creepy!
I worked next door to Mr. Gothard's office and once went to the printer to retrieve my papers and accidently grabbed these "notes" someone had printed up on a dear friend of mine. I was shocked and horrified and wondered what could possibly be written about me. These notes were very harsh and critical and sounded really unfounded.
I worked in the Registration Department (the loser team, apparently... lowest rung on the ladder). One December day when they were low on staff, I was asked to assist in entering some data into the ATI database. I was shocked to find that this database had actual red light/green light buttons that the ATI department could check off. The one family I saw was marked with a red light and had a lengthy description on how the mother called in and got "snotty" with the "girl" (author of the description) over some dispute on how the report form was handled. Apparently, this meant that the family should be characterized as having ungodly attitudes. WHAT THE HECK??? (By the way, I know who this family is. There son worked there at HQ.)
I used that database all the time to approve/not approve new EQUIP students. I can't remember if I actually approved them or told the people in charge of EQUIP what my opinion was. It was forever ago!
Especially when you have to PAY to volunteer... just a little pet peeve I have... :)
Well, not everyone had to pay to volunteer or work at HQ, but some did - the ones that I knew paid $100 per week to work for HQ. Parents thought it was sort of like getting life experience and job experience for their kids, that they had just raised through ATI. It was like "college" for ATI kids...
We were there as students, Angel. Supposedly we were there to learn skills & gain experience & to be shown off as the enviable 'product' of ATI. Bill was always talking in terms of 'apprenticeship'. This is what we were told we were - 'Apprenticeship Students' - from age 13 up. We were to seek 'apprenticeship opportunities' through IBLP's various arms of outreach. A select few were paid; most were not; some (myself included) actually PAID to work at his various campuses. My father paid because I wanted so much to be involved in the ministry, but he was honestly disgusted by the way Bill presented these 'opportunities' as chances to learn great things and help to advance the Gospel. In reality I ended up spending months cleaning and cooking...and paying $100 a week for the 'opportunity'.
I worked at HQ from August 2001 to December of 2001 in the seminar registration office/front desk. Apparently, this was the lowest rung on the ladder. I was paid $20 a week. I saved it up for a few weeks, then bought clothes that I wasn't embarrassed to wear. I pretty much lived off of the provided staff lunches. I rarely ate supper. I did not receive any extra money from my parents or anyone else. They assumed I was being taken care of, as I had been at the OTC. I didn't complain, because I got to live in a tiny attic apartment with a cool roommate. No one cared what I did, so I had the freedom to go out anytime I could find a ride (or walk to Hinsdale... I think that was the name of the little town)... unlike OTC, where even if you had money to buy personal supplies, you could never leave the TC.
My parents paid for me to live at the OTC. I received no compensation. I worked in the public schools as a volunteer with Character First, worked in the kitchen every other Saturday. Did hotel cleaning every evening for an hour. My free time was the two hours between chores and lights out. This was usually spent in the hallway talking with my friends because we weren't allowed to enter each other's rooms. They did feed me three times a day. :)
I worked at OTC in Spring of 2001.
Thank you, Rachel, for sharing your story. I am flabbergasted (or maybe I shouldn't be) that Bill Gothard didn't even want you to finish high school! Kudos to your parents for insisting on your getting an education and HS degree, and for not reacting negatively to your concerns.
Your gentleness in expressing concern for those who are still loyal to IBLP is beautiful evidence of Grace working in your life. Often the journey for someone to recognize their bondage and then to discover Truth (Jesus) outside an organized "system" is a long work in progress. However, the pain is worth the gain: the Truth (Jesus) really does set people free from the bitter taskmaster of rules to walk in a living relationship with Him.
Thank you for being a voice to say, "Look what I've found outside of IBLP! Don't follow Gothard, follow Christ!"
I wanted to thank everyone who has shared their picture along with the story. The similarity of features among the young women is yet another piece of evidence that supports their stories and the fact that Bill Got hard actively pursued these girls for their physical appearance. Thank you, everyone who has so bravely stepped forward.
I agree!
I am a mom and am both saddened and sickened beyond belief. I have read here for 5 days now and am compelled to read more. The man Bill shared here cannot register in my brain as the seminar instructor Bill. I have 3 daughters that were sent to Dallas for Excell etc... I think my family, at first, thought we were left out. Now, my word, I feel guilty saying we were spared.
Bless you, Rachel for sharing your story. I have not read one vindictive spiteful story which, in my mind, lends more credibility. I know it shouldn't as each person goes through the process at different times.
May Gods richest FREE blessings flow on you. I feel the shroud dropping and the Jesus I knew long ago being let back in. Thank you for that.
It is so encouraging to hear from a parent. I am so glad that you understand that we as former students (most of us) are not trying to be spiteful. Not all of our parents are supportive of this. Some are strong defenders of their "hero".
BTW Rachel, did you ever get your flute back? Those are expensive instruments, so if BG confiscated it to get your attention, well, there's more evidence.
Dear Rachel,
Thank you for telling your story, and for doing so with such grace... I'm so thankful that your parents supported you and that you were able to slip away from working for Bill Gothard instead of feeling trapped there. I well remember your pretty face – you and I are the same age, and I'm sure I heard you speak at a conference or two.
I was invited to work at HQ, but thankfully I did not go. Thanks again for sharing with us!
Blessings –
Elizabeth Rivard
As a flutist myself...... did you ever find your missing flute at Knoxville?!
Another flautist wondering if you ever found your flute. Coz even a used one is not inexpensive, and when you find one that "fits" you, it's a tragedy to lose it!
I am one paragraph in and my heart is just beating. One paragraph. Someone send this to an expert in predatorism (is that a word?). Please.Stories like this one aren't supposed to make us angry? Whoa. If your blood is not boiling, I think you better go back and read every account, go on the net and study what a predator is, and then ask forgiveness of the precious daughters we led as lambs to the slaughter. Bill Gothard, like Warren Jeffries, is the WORST sort of predator/hypocrite. Invoking the name of God as he deceives, back-bites, etc... So, Bill, what about your bad report teaching??? Telling Rachel to stay away from Charlotte. You are ... oh yuck. Forget it. "When I moved to that house, Bill warned me specifically not to discuss anything with Charlotte. He didn’t give me any details about her other than she had “issues” and could not be trusted. He double-checked a few days later to make sure I understood—I was not to be close friends with her. I got it." ok. Tell me. HOW can a man like this spend time in the Word? Rhema's? Blacchhhh. They are all shot down. Nothing that man says is good. He is a corrupt tree with corrupt fruit.
Julia, I am so sorry for your experiences.
I am a mom whose family was in ATI for a few years. I think it very helpful for you to also write your experience if you desire. I know people are all just humans but it is important for us to know with clarity the hypocrisy like the child labor and lack of payment right along with the grooming parts. Even if you were not groomed your story brings testimony to those who were. I always felt like our family didn't fit in because we didn't birth our children in ATI therefore they were not raised to be total conformists.
With all sincerity I do hope that correction comes and that this man is removed from harming children and young adults. Good grief for us parents too! Such bondage. :(
Thank you Rachel. Your courage has helped many.
Thanks for sharing your story Rachel. I met you shortly before you left in 1995, and I got to know one of your brothers several years later. So glad you and your family found freedom from the legalism of IBLP and that you're able to encourage others by what you experienced.
God bless Rachel and all of the women who have been brave enough to tell their stories. I know that whatever difficult times I have been through in life, it is awfully hard to dig it up and tell it - thus reliving it to a point. I hope and pray that eyes are opened. I used to think his teachings were freeing. Then I thought they were off. Then, WAY off. Now I just see a predator, and his teachings don't even matter at all, other than in the negative sense of how they helped him lure, capture, and keep his victims.
Thanks so much for sharing Rachel. I am so glad you did not turn your back on the Lord. So, many young people have, that were apart of ATI. It makes me so sad. Because I am a parent & the most important thing in my children's life is their relationship with God & happiness should be apart of this. I am sure you feel the same way too.
Rachel, you probably wouldn't remember me, but we were on the same Taiwan trip in '95 (although not on the same team). I am a good friend of a friend of yours, as well as a former BBC member. I so appreciate your speaking out and telling your story with such grace and truth. I have heard so many blame the parents, as they should not have taken Gothard's teachings so far. But I think your story emphasizes the fact that, while parents hold a certain degree of fault, in your case your parents were supportive of you in every way, and when presented with your concerns, came to the logical conclusion that anyone steeped in courtship teaching may have reached. Praise God for his continuing grace in your life!
Rachel,
Thank you for having the courage to come forward and tell your story. You women are all so brave. He must be stopped and he will be. These testimonies are changing how the world sees Bill Gothard and exposing him for what he is. I too pray for boldness and wisdom among those in that third group you describe. I have some friends that probably fall into that category.
Rachel, thank you for sharing your account. It was nice getting to meet you and the rest of the team in Taiwan 1995.
The actions of Bill Gothard and those in IBLP leadership have long been inexcusable. I believe that IBLP depends on these accounts not being corroborated.
Serious questions regarding these very issues have been brought up by many privately to Bill, to IBLP staff leadership, and even to the IBLP board itself over a very long period of time (~40 years). It is time for clear answers from IBLP concerning their support for these actions or their rejection of them.
Keep shining the light!
'Even this didn’t diminish the fact that he made me feel like I was very different from anyone else, and he had a special place in his heart reserved only for me.'
This reminds me of the way another Bill was described, the effect he had on women... (hint: last name is Clinton).
Rachel -
I was in one of the TESL break-out sessions you taught at Knoxville. You were one of the few speakers I ever heard with Institute that I still have total respect for. Loved hearing how God opened up such an awesome "foreign" mission field right where you already lived. You were (are still are!) totally an inspiration to me.
Thanks for faithfully following Jesus. Including sharing your story here.
~Brandy
Thank you for writing this article, Rachel. Your boldness and transparency is inspiring to me. As one who was on one if those overseas IBPL trips, I could see very clearly that you were a favorite of his, but I had no idea of what that meant. I really appreciate your honesty and the spirit in which you wrote. Many blessing on you and yours :-). Beth
Oh Rachel! I had no idea! I also was homeschooled, starting in the second year ATI began, and my parents eventually pulled us out after 3 years. I spent 2 weeks at headquarters, and never saw any of this but it doesn't surprise me. There is so much more about living that way that pleases men rather than God...I wish I had known what your family was going through, as we were making those same decisions for our family at the same time this was happening to you! It's good to get this out where others can know. Many blessings, and it's been way too long! Anita H
Rachel,
Thank you for sharing your story. We were housemates for a while, and then actually roommates at Heritage Manor, in "Suite 16" during 1995. I was very new to Headquarters life and you were always so kind and genuine.
I remember you traveling with Bill and also spending quite a few late evenings over at his office. I think I felt a bit of a pang of envy that you were deemed important to the ministry, but now I am thankful that I was spared the confusion and manipulation you had to endure.
I never knew about Marcus getting in trouble for talking to you, that happened before my arrival. However, it was common knowledge during my 3 years at HQ that if a girl was pretty enough she usually just got a talking to while the guy was publicly shamed in staff meeting and sent home. So destructive and so hypocritical.
Jessica (Pellascio) Bischof
Thanks for being brave and sharing, Rachel.
Thank you for sharing, Rachel. Your story is so sobering, and heartbreaking. Thanks especially for the post-script where you eloquently explain your reasons for sharing.....and the factors that have held you back from sharing previously. I so appreciate the courage and graciousness throughout your story.
I feel sick at my stomach. I simply cannot swallow this pill...that Mr. Gothard has never been brought to justice due to his highly skilled manipulation tactics. I am just sick. Lord, remove this man from the position... let YOUR light shine in this darkness for so many precious young lambs!
I have been somewhat addicted to researching ATI/Bill Gothard after a dear friend of mine began looking into the ATI program and attended a conference with the Duggars. I told her I saw red flags all over the place because she and I both have come from spiritually abusive church back grounds. I was a never involved in ATI (I think my former pastor was though), but as I read so much about how BG works I can see am amazing parallel. The funny thing is, my former pastor would never have allowed ATI in the congregation because it would have been competition for him. He was very controlling, and kept people in attendance by intimidation and fear. I remember when my husband finally made the decision to leave (this took a while because we were to be shunned by very dear friends if we "left the church"), one man in the church told my husband "Thus saith the Lord, your family will be destroyed" if we left the church. This statement was a false prophecy. We were not only NOT destroyed, but cleansed from the "Pharisee-icle" spirit we lived out. And found the grace of our Loving Savior in the darkness that followed the shunning we suffered through.
I thank God EVERY SINGLE DAY that we were out of that cult before my girls were old enough to know what was going on.
Thank you for allowing me to say this even though it is not about ATI.
I have warned my friend. She won't hear. She is motivated by fear. Fear that her children will not choose God over the world if she doesn't isolate them. Fear is such a powerful tool in the hands of a predator. "For God has not give me a spirit of fear but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Tim 1:7
Prayers for you ladies and gentlemen who have been victimized by a "spiritual" figure.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience--I am sure you are helping so many other young women by your courage to be so open
. I can only imagine how difficult it has been to live with this for so many years. By God's grace and your obedience to Him you have built a wonderful family (congratulations on expecting #5 and a girl!!) May God continue to bless you and your family.
This is a plea directed to the Members of the Board and management at IBLP and ATIA. We don't know what you think but we do know that you're reading all of this. Day after day, these stories mount with ever increasing credibility. (I knew these people including Rachel and others and they are very credible.) These stories cannot be ignored.
With each passing day, the "internal investigation" is looking more and more like a complete and utter sham. A real internal investigation, would be swift and would have concluded by now. A real internal investigation is not rushed, but conducted with all deliberate speed. And one other thing, Bill Gothard sould have no part other than sitting hit butt down in a conference room and shutting up until he asked a question and then answering the question. No "new insights" into what is going. No rhemas about being persecuted by "bitter" people.
So it's time for someone on the Board to be a leader. Find something within you that resembles a spine. With each passing day, you, the current Management and Members of the Board become complicit in this horrific scandal. Set aside these self-assurances that you're telling yourself and your inner-circle of friends. All that stuff about not rushing to judgment and waiting for the process to unfold--utter nonsese. Forget the crazy idea that you're doing what's best for the situation by being an influence as an insider rather than an outsider. That time has come and gone. The best thing you can do is to resign, announce the resignation to the public and move on with your life. Maybe make a commitment to not join the Board of another cult. ("I see that hand up and then down. Amen. I raise my hand with you.") Don't empower this man by participating in the continuing charade.
"Bill Gothard was seen by staff employees patting and fondling women employees. Later, he admitted in staff meetings that these actions were 'moral failures' on his part." Los Angeles Times, April 5, 1982
[https://www.recoveringgrace.org/media/LATimesArticle.pdf]
He's still at it. His inner circle of supporters is still covering up, justifying, excusing pretending. It's shameful, disgusting, inexcusable, appalling. Enough.
Amen and Amen!!!!! Dwight Frederickson, Bob Barth and the other men in leadership positions need to do what is right and do it ASAP. If they do not then as far as I am concerned they are just as much as part of the problem as Bill Gothard himself. His interaction with young ladies has been observed by hundreds of people over the last 20 years at HQ and for Bill to never have been confronted and forced to step down speaks loud and clear about leadership at HQ, but it is never too late to do what is right! Praying for God's grace to evident in these mens's life, the desire and power to do God's Will!!!
Rachel,
Thank you for sharing your story about your experience and I love your compassionate heart for those who are still in confusion. My parents and I have been talking about this all week and the emotions have run the gamut....shock/disbelief/sadness/anger/grief/relief/frustration/embarassment for defending him/divided/defensive/tearful/denial/protective/grateful and so many more. I had recently even said to my mother that based on some of the stories being shared that I was worried that something similar might have happened to a girl I had met at HQ and it was you. Seeing your face and reading your experience both grieved me and also made me oh so very grateful that you were protected from so much more and that your parents were supportive of your concerns. At the same time, I was sorry that you had to experience any of the things you did and for as long as you did. So many red flags are there and yet as girls who are used to respecting authority it is uncomfortable to realize how often inappopriate and outright wrongs were done in the name of being respectful.
I remember the first time I met you...you had such a friendly and welcoming smile and made me feel right at home at Headquarters. My purpose in being there was to work with a dentist who volunteered his time and I became his assistant for the week and then helped in the prep for things to be transported to Knoxville before the big conference. You, of all people at HQ, took the time to be a friend and show me around and I remember raiding the kitchen after hours with you while laughing at the selection of "healthy ice cream." We also ended up in Mr. Gothard's office (not knowing he was there) one evening and he was gracious as always but I remember not feeling completely comfortable. Part of that was due to the respect I had for him and being in awe of being in his presence...oh if only we knew then what we know now! The next morning I received a call to meet him at his office and was even picked up from the house by the now infamous blue car. I went in fear and trembling but was relieved when it was a simple case of mistaken identity and I was free to go my way after a friendly chat before breakfast. I too was offered cash for any needs I might have while there at HQ at the time and thought it strange and surprising. Later, I ran into you and you cautioned me about spending time in his office. At the time, I thought it odd since you seemed to be free to come and go in his office but I trusted you and am so glad nothing more came of it. Thank you for being a friend and for cautioning me even then! I have always been grateful for the fact that I got to meet you and share such fun times and also many chats as we walked around during my short stint there.
My family joined ATI in its 2nd year and like Rachel's parents, education was very important but my parents desired to have a Biblical factor as well. They balanced the two quite well and encouraged me and my siblings to further our education with college after homeschooling. As I grew interested in dentistry, I realized college would be needed and required. Of course, this level of secular education was discouraged in ATI circles and many of our ATI friends informed me that they were praying for me to realize the error of my ways. When I spent the time at HQ it was to see if I could get into some form of dental work without having to go to college (an apprenticeship idea) and realized quickly that was not to be the case. I am so very grateful for the encouragment and support I received from my parents that they trusted the foundation I had to handle college without losing my faith and I did quite well. God provided so many opportunities for me to be a different voice and I loved it and excelled. I guess I am one of the few who is happy and non scarred from many of the terrible stories people had in ATI. Many of my experiences were great and I credit that with the wonderful people I got to work with and count as friends as well as my very wise parents who didn't always agree with everything Mr Gothard said and did. (We even listened to "ungodly" music!)
My heart is grieved though that so many were hurt and wounded and scarred by the legalism and rules and guilt. There is hope and freedom in Christ and I am glad to be living in it freely! Thanks again for sharing Rachel- very brave and very needed to have voices out there!
Rachel, thank you for your courage. You and each one of the brave, strong women sharing these stories deserves a medal for being willing to not only revisit a horrible experience, but do so publicly and open yourself up to the attacks and insensitive comments that are sure to come your way. You are the heroes. I pray for your protection, peace, and flourishing in the coming days.
Thanks for your support and kind words, everyone. And sweet to hear from people I haven't seen or heard from since our time in ATI together! You have blessed me greatly.
I am also encouraged by the parents who have commented and are seeing things about ATI and IBLP in a different light. I wanted to add how grateful I am that I had parents who listened to me (and didn't turn me over to Bill at 15 like he wanted!). Even though we didn't reach any definite conclusions that night when I finally told them on the phone about how uncomfortable I felt to be singled out by him, their openness and understanding was the turning point for me to start breaking away (emotionally and physically) from him.
There are sadly many other stories of kids who were mistreated and misused by Bill and were shunned or scorned by their parents when they tried to confide in them. I personally know some of them and they have either walked away from the faith or stuffed their pain very deep down and it has effected them immensely in negative ways.
Even though I knew how much my parents respected the man, I knew that they would choose me over him any day and that knowledge gave me strength.
As a parent myself now, I pray that all of us (including myself) would be wise and discerning as we shepherd our children's hearts.
Blessings.
Rachel
P.S. And yes! I DID find my flute after that awkward first meeting with Bill. It was on a table that someone had removed from the orchestra room. ;)
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Mark, thanks for your story and your voice. It is not that easy to revisit the past and share. My heart goes out to you and your family, esp your mother. Bless you for caring for her.
My wife and I split up after 5 years of ATI. That was about 20 years ago, we were in the second year ATI group. Lots of pain. lots of dark years. This site with people like you have been such a blessing to me.
Somehow it helps me hearing what you went through. Processing all these years, opening myself to the Spirit Of God and allowing His light to come to all the places I had forgotten. "looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith."
Also thanks for the background on Roger M. It helps me to understand my experience at his law school. He did something at the law school akin to what he did at his church. ("running internal "contest" to see who could attend the most BG seminars.")
At the law school evidently he was behind the "running internal "contest" to see who could get the best grades by only using only a few approved law school books and materials."
I clearly remember asking someone high on staff if it was OK to get extra materials (really dumb of me to ask, I should have just done it) and he said no. It was not recommenced. Like an obedient cult follower, I complied, much to my determent. I only did the one year. I did not even try for the Baby Bar. Over the years I have wondered who was behind this evil policy. Now I have a very good guess.
Were there any phone calls or letters asking me how I was doing? Any concern how the law school could help me finish? Any outreach at all? No. none. Only silence.
sarcasm on<>Sarcasm off
Is it showing? You know that B word.
That is what I get for getting sucked into a cult. This is the first time I have publicly shared my law school story, and reading your story made it easy.
Now who is piggybacking to voice there frustrations? Ha Ha :)
Bless you Mark
Evidently I did some tricky html coding with the sarcasm onSarcasm off.
I had extra < marks and the site deleted the best part of my post. That is what I get for trying to be cute. This is what was deleted:
Don't forget, this is a Christian Law School. For reassurance just watch the you tube or read the articles on their web site. They go out of their way to make it clear that they are indeed a Christian Law School. They also make it clear that they want you to succeed. The also make it clear they will train you in justice. They also... You can trust them.
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Mark, my heart breaks for you and your family. It is so had to live in such madness.
Thanks for sharing more of you story. May God show Himself strong and mighty with healing for your family. Blessings
After reading Courtney Blackmann's response, I reread my above comments about OBSL and saw a mistake. I am sorry. The line
"He did something at the law school akin to what he did at his church."
is not correct. It should be
"If" He did something at the law school akin to what he did at his church.
I regret the not including the "if."
Please note however that I was careful to be clear that I was unsure who was responsible for the "evil policy."
"evidently he was behind"
"asking someone high on staff"
"I have wondered who was behind"
"I have a very good guess."
Again, I am sorry I did not include the "if."
This allegation about an 'internal contest' is ridiculous.
I attended Oak Brook College and knew the Dean Roger Magnuson well. He was known to the law students as someone who would directly mentor you if you asked for the opportunity, and never did this based on grades.
When I asked for real world experience, he provided opportunities to me, including being an editor for a treatise on corporate litigation published by his law firm and a assisting role in a Minnesota court petition. Both opportunities have assisted me greatly in my current endeavours. Not once did Roger Magnuson ask for my grades or resume.
He also was the opposite of the legalism described on this site.
I attended Oak Brook College while I was still completing the last two years of undergrad. When I graduated, it made sense to switch to a regular law school because Oak Brook is not recognized in my home country.
Roger Magnuson not only gave his full blessing, but wrote 15 reference letters to all the schools I applied to and offered continued reference letters and support over the years.
He passed away recently but up until his death he was sending job postings and legal articles to me and other students.
The allegation that we were not allowed to get extra materials makes me wonder if you were ever truly in Oak Brook law school. The school highly suggested for all of us to purchase supplements and guides so that we would be able to pass the baby bar. The fact that you did not purchase extra supplements to help your study may be one reason you did not take the mandatory baby bar. Oak Brook has a very high pass rates on the California bar that exceeds many regular ABA schools.
I would suggest you be sure of the facts before you start dragging innocent people through the mud. Also if you care about the credibility of the site, as I do, it is important that the real facts about IBLP get out here and not be tainted by false allegations against innocent people
By the way, the comment was directed at 'GuyS'
It is possible that the rules changed as time went on at the law school. That was definitely true with ATIA- initially no materials were to be used except for Wisdom Books, and then gradually supplements were allowed. Plus, he said he asked to use supplements and was told no. I don't think he made that up.
Hi guest, Thanks for your comment. The State Bar of California requires Oak Brook Law students to pass a first year state administrated baby bar to continue to second year. This is a state requirement for non ABAschools like Oak Brook. In order to pass, we all go through Flemings or one of the baby bar prep courses ( non IBLP material). This state requirement leads me to seriously doubt 'Guys' allegation. The fact that he said he did not take choose to the baby bar as all the other students do suggests he did not study properly or use all the needed materials ( including non IBLP supplements) to do well. Thanks for your concern.
Courtney Blackmann, I want let you know that I have read your response. It might take me a few weeks to respond. I will need to dig up my old material.
Guest, thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt. I hope to clear some of this up in a few weeks.
The OBSL experience was one of my all time disappointments. It shouldn't have been, but it was. I was 43 years old, and it only cost me one year of my life. Heck, that does not sound so bad. Why all the stinking passion?
In retrospect, it was a blessing because I started to see something was very wrong. However it still took a few more years to admit I had been in a cult. Blessings
Hi Guys,
I appreciate you willingness to go over and review the facts. The reason for the ' stinking passion' is because I think it is important to not make baseless claims, especially when another human being or school's reputation is on the line. It is important, especially since lack of truth in accusations is a disservice to the severe pain of actual victims on the site.
I know your experience was a while ago and appreciate that while the facts may be foggy, I would encourage you to publish them with accuracy.
Several things to clear up:
-The school is OBCL, not OBSL (as you have incorrectly named it twice despite having attended for a full year).
- The alleged 'internal contest based on how well we did with only IBLP materials' is impossible as we all needed non IBLP bar prep to pass the state required first year bar. The fact you chose not to take the first year bar, is one indication you did not use the needed non-IBLP supplements. The same type of bar prep materials are also needed to take the final California bar that OBCL has a very high pass rate on. Please note the first year bar and final bar are state run and what courses students take to pass such bars is commonly available knowledge not just in OBCL, but on the internet ( Barbri, Flemings etc).
-The alleged 'contest to watch the most Basic Seminars' was directly related to the Dean without any ambiguity in your comments and I can assure you this was not the case.
I am sorry you had a bad experience and for your troubles. I understand OBCL was not for everyone, and I even switched to a secular law school because OBCL was not recognized in my home country. However OBCL served a good purpose for many others who want to practise in California and I do not wish to see the academic reputation of the school falsely dragged through the mud. I suggest that flippant sarcasm is not cute, nor is it the appropriate tone. Thank you for your amendments and adding the necessary 'if' to change your statements from definite to possible.
The Dean and many of my classmates gave their full support to my decision to switch schools. The Dean and others encouraged me to use basic logic for what is best for me an continued to help even when I left the school so I find previous allegations of some 'nazi regime' somewhat hard to believe(not from GuyS post). Furthermore, I noticed the post alleging a 'nazi regime' was deleted shortly after my facts went up.
Many good people, including many on this site were involved with ATI. I suggest you not use connection with ATI as a license to bring false accusations so that we can properly respect the real victims.
Lastly, just so you know, at a regular ABA law school, all the students are ranked in percentile from top to the bottom of the class. One of the most important employment criteria for law firms is where you 'ranked' in your class. When I attended Oak Brook, it did not have this ranking system because it does not want to promote a spirit of cut throat competition that occurs in many schools. However if during the time you went to Oak Brook, they might have adopted the typical ranking system, you should know that this is a trademark of all law schools and not some evil contest. The fact that one might characterize ranking as evil is naive and demonstrates lack of knowledge of the legal market.
Thank you, Rachel, for sharing your story. Exposing evil is often the first step in halting it - and abuse like this can and must be stopped.
Mark, I'm sorry for your family's struggles and hope your lovely mother is stable and doing well. The parallels between IBLP and Straitgate are ironic. Like many families, though, the scandal was probably the only way my family and I would ever have left. After being raised with very regimented systems, finding grace and freedom in Christ has been both liberating and very difficult - spiritual pride takes many forms; externals and lists are so much easier to follow and address than heart issues and relationships. Blessings to you and your family.
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This has been a weird day. I saw today's news about Bill Gothard posted on a friend's Facebook page. I then quickly told her how I had been at the Oak Brook headquarters myself many years ago. I was kicked out after just a few months because I didn't see eye to eye with them, especially on music. But also football. Anyway, Bill Gothard called me up to his office, we had a long talk, and I was sent home for not seeing it his way.
But I mentioned to my friend earlier today that there was a girl I met while I was there from South Dakota who I thought was just one of the prettiest girls I'd ever seen, and so in time I tried to get to know her better. That was a tough thing to do with the strict rules, and with me not being much of a "ladies man" to start with. I met her while playing volleyball on the lawn, and she, like all the other girls, was playing in a skirt rather than shorts. Crazy to think of now, but that was the rule. Anyway, I mentioned to my friend this morning that I got to be pretty good friends with her brother, but never got to spend a lot of time with her. I hoped that nothing like these allegations had happened to her. So that's it. Then...
I go to this website here from a link. And see Rachel. That was her. I didn't remember her name until I saw a list of girls names and then I remembered. I clicked on it and saw the picture. Crazy! I don't know if you'll read this, and I'm sure you won't remember me, but your brother might. He and I had some good conversations, but I was only there a few months. Too much of a rebel (a running joke ever since for my family and friends as I am possibly the least rebellious person imaginable.)
I am glad God got you out of there. My life has been blessed and even that chapter there which didn't turn out at all as I'd thought (went there to work in the law program and ended up in landscaping with your brother), even that brought me closer to God. Like you, I've married (also a girl from S. Dakota, interestingly) and we have three children.
I pray that those who were hurt by the actions of man will know that God heals and is real. That they will not confuse the sinful acts of man for the perfect will of God. He heals and loves. Thank you for speaking out and may God bless you and your family.
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To Rachel and everyone else who has shared your story and all who have put together this website,
Thank you for telling your stories, and thank you for pursuing bringing the truth to light, and for chronicling all this. I will be praying for you as you fight to expose evil.
I have family members who have had experiences almost identical to yours, and as a mother who wants to protect her daughters (and sons!) from predators - this is an invaluable manual on what to be on the lookout for.
I pray for your healing - all of you. I am so glad you are fighting for the light and the truth.
God bless you.
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I read Rachel's testimony and I know EXACTLY what Rachel says in her testimony because I was there when she first arrived at the HQ. Throughout the years, Rachel and I became good friends. Rachel is one of THE MOST Godly, honest, God-fearing, straightforward young ladies that I know. I believe every single word in Rachel's testimony because I was around in many of the occasions. Yes, I was there when BG took the advantage and went into the small copying room to show his special physical and emotional attention to these favorites. I witnessed what Rachel described in her testimony.
If it weren't Rachel, it would be many other BG's favorite girls that I saw and/or heard what BG did to them. Basically, BG was being infatuated with these pretty young girls and apparently being emotionally in love with these pretty young girls.
In the 10 years I was at the HQ, I worked very closely with BG all the time. I was the first and the only Chinese on staff and in the entire "ministry" for years. I then founded the Chinese Ministry for IBLP, developed the caring and supporting program for the Chinese ATI families, translated BG's overlays for his seminars and many publications into Chinese, and I translated and did the voice-over dubbing for the Basic Seminar. I frequently had to step into his office to discuss details of my projects since no one at HQ really knew anything about the Chinese Ministry in which I was involved.
When I first arrived at HQ from Taiwan, BG also put me in his office for a while to help him with special projects and he demanded that I should stay close to him. So I witnessed first hand all the time how BG abused his power and how he manipulated these innocent, home-schooled, pretty young girls. Yes, Rachel was one of them. I witnessed and was aware of the episodes mentioned in her testimony.
Rachel, good for you. I admire your bravery. I believe your story 100%. I know God will continue to heal you and bless you and your family.
Just wanted to say thank you for sharing your story, Lulu. I was unaware of the Chinese ministry. What work it must have been for you to found, develop and support such a project. I hope that you are in a good place now where your labors are honored and blessed!
Hi Lulu,
I've met you at conferences.Thanks for your post! I was wondering what convinced you want to stay with IBLP despite seeing all theses things happening?
Thank you, Lulu. I didn't know what you observed or knew as we have never talked about it. Thank you for your eye-witness confirmation of some of the details of my story and many others like me. It is time for victims (from mild sexual harassment to molestation to abuse on every different level in the name of spiritual leadership) to have a VOICE and find healing in the perfect SHEPHERD.
I love you. Rachel
I would have posted my photo by my comment if I knew how to download it.
Lulu,
You don't know me but we have mutual friends who were not part of ATI/IBLP. You were there at 2001(?) LA seminars talking to Chinese attendants, praising how the young men of ATI avert their eyes, etc. After reading so many girls' horrible stories, I thought about you and how you have been doing. Then I remembered you did not have a "pale" face and you were much older, so I thought you were probably "safe" all this time. Where are you now? I hope you will reach out to Chinese community as many are still blindly following/defending/promoting BG. Our family was never part of ATI, thank God, but we had attended seminars and were homeschoolers, thus knew some ATI families and perhaps had been judged as second-class or unspiritual by them. After so many years of confusion, I finally come to believe that BG is a first-class deceiver!
I am so proud of all of you for speaking the truth, even if some feel it is late in coming. I understand why it took so long for you to speak out, honestly.
My mother got sucked in to the Basic Youth phenomena in 1970 as a baby Christian. My father went to a few sessions but was too tired. What we didn't know then is that he had cancer. He died in 1971. She never remarried because people within the organization, possibly even Bill himself, told her that since she'd been married before my father, it was not of God that she remarry...that my father's death had probably been a consequence for divorce and remarriage. She wasn't a Believer when she married her first husband, when they divorced or when she married my Dad. No one ever considered that when addressing any of this. To this day, she remains unmarried and has been incredibly lonely.
For my part, the standards were impossible to maintain. I broke away from the whole mindset in college. It was freeing, even if it has caused a permanent rift in my relationship with my mother and her friends who remain entrenched in the movement...some of them even serving on the board. Fortunately, I married a godly man who refuses to allow me to be sucked back in.
Sorry for the rambling. Just wanted to share how deeply touched I am by all of you who have come forward. Your courage is a blessing.
Wow. Rachel, I never really knew you even tho our family's have lived just a few country miles from each other for closer to two decades now than one, and your educator mother taught me and your brother Caleb 1st grade math together. But it saddens my heart to hear how someone I also trusted and respected, went against his own teachings by his actions towards you and the other girls. I have, for several years, had some doubts about some of the things he taught and his interperation of many passages of scripture, but I never imagined something like this was going on. I must admit, even when I heard some of the rumors floating around about all this, I just blew it off as some more kids who were pushed too far in their youth, just trying to bring him down. But then I saw this page, and my heart sank, because you aren't just some face that somebody posted up with a made up story. I know who you are, I know your family, I was at your sisters wedding not so very long ago. I am truly sorry this happened to you and I thank you for sharing it. I will pray that God continues to bless you and your young family.
Oh, I also want to mention that even though I was very young when that coordinator came around, I do know our whole house laughed at the report that your mom was not doing it right! She is an amazing woman, and even though it's been close to 15 years since I was in her math class, I still remember the time I had between class and when my mom would pick me up. Your mom would make huge ice cream cones (that I could never eat fast enough) and then me and the other sticky fingered kids in the house would all play hide and seek or soccer until I had to go. I have many good memories that were made at your house! Your mom knew how to make fun and learning blend so well, and I'm sure I got better grades in that math class than I have in any math class since!
I was in the choir at that conference in Knoxville in 92.(Then worked at IBLP seminars that summer...I was sent to Indy for 'counseling' and sent home but that's a different story) It makes me absolutely sick to think that while I was preparing to sing that he was starting something like this a few hundred (or less) feet away. Thank you for sharing your story, it's one that NEEDS to be told.
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Hi Rachel,
Wow, its been a difficult last 3 weeks, since learning about the allegations against Mr.Gothard. I'm not sure if we knew each other, but I suspect that I came to Basic Care immediately after you left, in mid-July of 1995. I was only there for 4 weeks, and then went to Excel, in Dallas. I never came back to HQ, but at the time, I thought maybe I would. So glad that door was closed!
I am appalled that these kind of things were going on, all the while our family was in the program. I remember being in Knoxville, the summer of '92, as well. Maybe that's why you look so familiar to me? I have many emotions to work through...my first day, at Basic Care, was the day that Prem and Sara were being sent home. What a confusing, emotional day that was for everyone.
So many stories that could be told...I think I might have to contact RG, sometime :) Thanks for having the courage to share your personal story. You have opened the door for others to do the same. Life, after ATI, has been challenging at times. Trying to fit into a culture that I did not experience, as a young person, was hard. Getting rid of the legalism, perfectionism, and tendency to over-analyze every single detail of life...that has been a process, as well.
But the good news is that God is always doing something new, in each one of us. We may not see it, but He is always at work! So glad to have found real grace and mercy, in my times of need.
Liz :)
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Dear Rachel -
When I saw the names on the list of testimonies here the name "Rachel" jumped out at me, and your face immediately came to mind. Noooo... Click... Heart Sink... My intuition was correct, I felt sick.
If you don't recognize my last name, I took back my maiden name post my divorce... I attended the church you attended when you were a nanny for the "prominent ATI family."
I smiled when I read about your mother standing her ground :-). Unfortunately I was likewise crushed by the same "ATI coordinator" who attacked her - he was the "Director of Counseling" at our church - following my [now ex] husband's declaration he didn't love me, and wanted a divorce, while I was still in the hospital after the birth of our 4th child.
In accordance with Gothard's teachings, not to be confused with biblical teachings, I was told the "curse of divorce" in my marriage was from my side of the family, because my parents were divorced. I was made to feel wholly responsible for my husband's unloving attitude towards me & our children.
Unfortunately, it took me another 14 years to extract myself from my very unhealthy marriage - my divorce was only finalized last year.
[BTW, your mother-in-law was my angel at that time when my 4th child was born, 15 years ago. Please give her my love!]
God bless you! The tentacles of Gothard's errant teachings reached FAR beyond Knoxville, Indianapolis, or Oak Brook... I was never in IBLP, never went to Knoxville, we weren't deemed as being "worthy," couldn't afford the program fees, and made to feel inferior, unworthy of God's love. I can understand why it took you so long to come forward, there was a lot of wheat to separate from the chaff in the teachings of that ministry [and that church].
Your mother & mother-in-law are two exceptionally strong women, full of grace! Congrats on your young family! May the Lord Bless you & "your best friend"! And once again, thank you!
<3 Susan
Susan, I wish you would consider asking to make what happened to you a featured story. What happened to you drives many to despair and damages the out working of their earthly walk with God, and you could shine a light that few can, because what you have been through is so horrible. It is so sad to hear of so called Christians treating mothers this way! Anyway, I think your story needs to be told, and thanks for sharing here.
Correction: I learned from Rachel the IBLP/ATI operative who "crushed" her mother was not, contrary to my prior assumption, the same IBLP/ATI operative who counseled me.
@Lynn... Thank you! I have been in touch with Anne; yes, I believe I will submit my story, in due time. I need to prayerfully gather my thoughts! The Rebuilder's Ministry & Gothard's teachings on marriage/divorce is something I don't see on this site.
I really appreciate all the stories that people have shared on this website. I only went to two or three conferences when I was in my teens. I recall that there was something kind of appealing about Gothard's teachings. But I was fortunate that the people I fellowshipped with were not so legalistic. I just went to the IBYC conferences because other friends went. But I rarely thought of it again since the late 80s. I have to admit I'm surprised to hear that it's been a thriving ministry all these years. And that other groups of people have made his teachings into a way of life. From the conferences I went to (where Gothard was only present pre-filmed on large screens) Gothard always seemed like an odd figure. He seemed to believe that he had special gifts of spiritual intuition, and of course the gift of celibacy. But he sounds like someone who was probably just a sexually awkward and repressed young man, who believed in and developed a myth about his own exceptionalism. But he's really not exceptional at all.