35 Comments

1. 

   Jeff Nettles April 15, 2012 Reply

   Hey guys and gals, I appreciate your website. I never was too influenced by Gothard and his legalism, despite the strong efforts of some parents in our church I served as the youth pastor back in the day. Working on a sermon this morning on 1 Corinthians 8 and went to Gothard's music teachings to illustrate making a (biblical) mountain out of a(n unbiblical) molehill.
   I appreciated the article outlining his very twisted approach to music. Because some Africans worshipped demons to a beat in their village, all music emphasizing the 2 and 4 beat is from the devil to corrupt our morals and faith.
   Unbelievable. Glad God kept me from getting entangled into such junk.
   I'm also glad He has set you guys free from that legalism.
   
   Grace through Christ, our Lord who's Word is SUFFICIENT for all gospel ministry,
   Jeff Nettles

2. ‘Recovering Grace’ Reaches Out to Those Harmed by Bill Gothard’s Teachings | The Wartburg Watch 2013 April 18, 2013 Reply

   [...] "Recovering Grace is a Christian organization dedicated to helping those affected by the teachings of Bill Gothard, the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP), and the Advanced Training Institute (ATI). As the foundational statement of our faith, we adhere to both the Apostles and Nicene creeds."  link [...]

3. 

   Alicia Keller April 29, 2013 Reply

   I just found your website. Thank you for reaching out to the children raised in the ATI cult! I clearly remember the day I realized that Gothard sincerely believed he should not be questioned, but blindly followed. It is always better to obey God than man. I encourage anyone (no matter how they grew up) to read the Bible for yourself and don't try to add things that aren't there or 'interpret' what is plainly obvious. Please keep up the faith!

   • 

     Barbara Brooks May 30, 2015 Reply

     I really think this statement of beliefs falls short. It's essential that you emphasize biblical principles of leadership: 1) plural leadership; 2) accountability to a local church overseer; 3) church discipline. Bill Gothard could never have gotten away with any of this stuff if he had been accountable to a biblical church and had godly co-workers. We need to beware of leaders who stand alone, whether in churches or para-church organization. The general lack of following principles of church discipline allows all sorts of abuses to continue. Abuses will always happen, but the a good church will catch offenders early and restrain them.

4. 

   Patrick Goddall September 26, 2013 Reply

   Thank you for addressing these issues. I was deeply impacted by Bill Gothard's ministry in the late 1970's and ultimately gave up on God and the bible for a number of years. It was not until 1996 that I

5. Recovering Grace Confronts Bill Gothard | The Wartburg Watch 2014 February 10, 2014 Reply

   […] According to their belief statement:  […]

6. 

   Anna February 26, 2014 Reply

   Why are you not taking legal actions? If someone knows and does nothing they are a part of the crime.

   • 

     Shanna June 4, 2023 Reply

     Anna, they explain this in one of the FAQs.

7. 

   Anna February 26, 2014 Reply

   A social website will not get these young girls out of harms way. I'm becoming suspicious of RG's motives since there is no legal action being taken, especially since there is a "donate" button! Would someone please take legal action! As to the Gothard ---- I went to the seminar several times around 20 yrs. ago but saw his view of power as abusive and anti-biblical. Never went back, and it is astounding how many people actually eat this stuff up! It has ruined thousands of lives.

   • 

     Moderator February 26, 2014 Reply

     Anna, thank you for your concern. It is the first question addressed here: https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/questions-from-the-mailbag/

8. 

   Megan March 3, 2014 Reply

   Thanks for getting the word out about how extreme legalism can get. As a kid, I knew some people who got involved in groups that follow Gothard's teachings, and a couple of them are not happy with the experiences they had at all. Legalism is damaging. Thank you for giving people who are dealing the effects of legalism a voice.

9. 

   Travis dick March 7, 2014 Reply

   I grew up in the Gothard cult, thankfully I went to Bible college and found out for myself that the Bible is not a list of do's and dont's. There was inconsistency, legalism, and for a teenager easy to see through. Parents responded to the tough love thing, destroying their relationships with their kids, all in Gods name. I used to ask my dad, why he got advice on how to raise my brothers and I, from someone who has no kids of his own. Gods grace is sufficient for us all...

10. 

    Wayno March 24, 2014 Reply

    Yes I am a victim of the ibyc seminars of the the 1970's.
    
    The best book I have read on the subject of grace was Chuck Swindoll's "The Grace Awakening." This was an invaluable resource for de-programming Gothardism.
    
    I especially take reservation with his teaching on music. Music in my humble opinion is a-moral. It's NOT the lyrics, the beat, or tempo that defines whether music is good or bad. I believe the real message in music is in the lifestyle that created them. What message did Michael Jackson's lifestyle send?
    
    "At an even deeper level, Jackson struggles with his spiritual identity. Is he Black or White, Good or Bad, Beauty of the Beast? ... Ultimately the King of Pop must come to terms with the King of Kings, if he is going to resolve the deep dilemma in his soul." David S. Hart -- "It's All Rock-n-Roll to Me"
    
    I listen to "Alice in Chains" but I do NOT make a steady diet. The music is oppressive. All one has to do is look at the life of Layne Staley.
    
    Music is powerful. It is a form of worship. In that, people can form an emotional identity in the music they listen too. I found honesty in the music of "The Cure."
    
    I am privileged to serve as a moderator for a group of people who are Christians and also gothic. http://www.waynoguerrini.com/can-a-christian-be-gothic/ You have seen them. Kids dressed in black, or wearing crosses, with tattoos and piercing. This is where my heart is.
    
    God loves the freaks,
    
    Wayno
    
    http://www.waynoguerrini.com/category/faithspirituality/

11. 

    Rich August 18, 2014 Reply

    I really should not be amazed by the length that some go to discredit others. This site seems to want to throw out the baby with the bath water! All is wrong,nothing worth supporting. The "Our Beliefs" section outlines the same stuff that a very LARGE NUMBER of others also claim. What do we know about the variety of those groups- they include everything from actions that glorify the Lord to actions that individually fell short of the glory of God. This is true of every group and it is true of every member of every group.
    
    The biggest aspect that is missing and NEEDS to be addressed is not how 'perfectly' this ministry or that ministry has walked with the Lord but rather how to guide anyone to walk with the Lord. It is a fallacy to believe that you can follow any teachings and be true to the Lord without the intimate guidance that God provides to those who will listen.
    
    People tend to want to rely upon a set of rules or performance so they can 'feel' safe or acceptable or whatever. There is no safe. There is only a reliance upon God that is required. For a person that seeks safe without that absolute reliance upon the Lord there is no interpretation of ANYBODY'S teaching that is going to be correct. I have prayed with so many people that would not be moved from their choice of relying upon things other than God. They want what the Lord has offered but for different reasons have not moved to the spiritual relationship that allows them to receive it.
    
    I went to the seminar and I didn't hear any message other than complete trust in the Lord. What I have observed is how some have come from a dependance upon a worldly view and then have gone to an absolute servant position to their earthly leaders and never opened their hearts to be guided by the Lord. It is the relationship with the Lord that guides you in your other relationships. There is an absolute individual responsibility that no other person can be a part of that is that relationship we have with the Lord.
    
    For all that are so sure that Gothard is wrong, apparently he has been individually wrong in his actions, is there any one of you that would like to claim that you can be examined and not be found of any type of fault? The Gospel is not dependent upon the character of those who preach it but upon the Spirit of the Lord that witnesses it to our hearts. The Hebrews wanted a King rather than individual responsibility to God, so do lots of people today. Let us start to focus on how to truly turn hearts to the Lord.

    • 

      rob war August 18, 2014 Reply

      so you discount what is being expressed on this web site which is exposing not only the dangerous teaching of Bill Gothard but his character himself. Character does matter and it is un-Biblical to state that it doesn't. When someone builds up a multi million dollar ministry which teaches having Godly character and wise decisions and moral living, then his own Godly character or lack there of matters. Sweeping it under the carpet is not Godly or moral. Likewise what is just as dangerous is that he teaching is not Biblical even though it proports to. Discussing his rather specific teaching here is to help those be set free from it so they can turn their hearts to the Lord. There are too many silent voices out there that have left the Christian faith do to BG. This web site is trying to reach out to those and others negatively affected by him. Sorry but sweeping it under the carpet in the name of some kind of "lets just focus on Jesus" isn't focussing on Jesus

    • 

      Don Rubottom August 19, 2014 Reply

      "I went to the seminar and I didn't hear any message other than complete trust in the Lord." The party of circumcision that Paul battled preached a kind of complete trust in the Lord. But they were preaching a false gospel. Please review your seminar workbook and search the Scriptures to see whether those things are so. The people engaged in this website were immersed in Gothard's teachings for years and by the very same Guidance that you advocate, have come to understand just how deceptive and false those teachings were. You may have been protected from the falsehoods and I thank God for that. But they are prominent in his teachings. And you judge their carefully considered conclusions based on their statement of beliefs?
      Can you tell me what baby you fear is being thrown out with the bathwater? Some have examined that carefully for months and even years and can't find the baby. What quantity of false teaching do you think disqualifies a teacher in the church?

    • 

      J.B. August 22, 2014 Reply

      "People tend to want to rely upon a set of rules or performance so they can 'feel' safe or acceptable or whatever. There is no safe. There is only a reliance upon God that is required."
      
      I completely agree with you on this, Rich. But for many people, IBLP WAS a set of rules and a performance-driven lifestyle attractive to those who wanted to feel safe or acceptable. Perhaps it wasn't quite so damaging to adult seminar attendees who had significant life experience and were able to process the material with some degree of discernment, but for many young people who grew up in the ATI program, Gothardism was all they knew. It was their reality throughout their formative years, and it broke them. For the young people whose families went on to send them to a Training Center or similar place, the abusive nature of the program reared its head in an even more dangerous and uglier way. Even more, the program was built by a man who willfully placed himself above all the regulations he strictly enforced. I personally don't claim to be perfect and without sin, but I also believe that someone in Gothard's position needs to be fit for ministry as per the standards laid out in Scripture.
      
      The bottom line is that people have been hurt. Yes, no ministry is perfect. You're absolutely right. But it's not about throwing the baby out with the bath water anymore - it's about recognizing that the Baby can be found elsewhere where true freedom is available.

12. 

    Camron Winters May 30, 2015 Reply

    It's doubtful this post will appear on this list.
    
    Not be a "follower" (or ever wanting to be a "leader") I was "encouraged" by friends to attend IBYC over a 3 year period. God seemed to be saying, "don't go...you'll be sorry".
    
    I attended IBYC in, 1979. What a mistake!
    
    For many reasons I was suspicious of the IBYC cult. Gothard is a self appointed nobody with no real theological training and to that end isn't in any position of authority nor is anyone required by God to "submit" to anyone even though they assume an aire of power or authority. Many regard him and the stuff he teaches close to being equivalent to the scriptures.
    
    People are drawn to power and people in positions of power even if they are completely wrong.
    
    Many years later I found The Westminster Confession of Faith and The Shorter Catechism which well explained biblical matters without all the poorly developed and misapplied understanding of contemporary "theologians".
    
    Jesus said, "freely you received, freely give".
    
    To Gothard, and those like him and similar programs, that applies.
    
    Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.
    
    Gothard/IBYC is sinful spiritual slavery.

13. 

    Rev. Vincent O. Gonzalez, Sr April 20, 2016 Reply

    I attended IBYC three times in the early - mid 1980s. A lot of those experiences had faded in my memory until I looked up IBYC online and found the name of this group. As a professional musician and a professional church musician at the time (S. Baptist) I rejected Gothard "theories" regarding music and "tough love." It has taken the last decade for me to recover from the legalistic teachings of the denomination supported by Gothard and others like him. I know many judgmental Christians take issue with my "lifestyle" and they will answer to God for that (I came out as gay at the age of 48 in 2002.) My faith in God through Christ has never been stronger and I am active, along with my husband (we became partners in 8/2003 & were married 8/15/2015), in a progressive and welcoming Presbyterian Church in our community. I pray for all people who have felt the oppression and sting of Christian legalism & fundamentalism, that they find liberating grace in Christ Jesus through the Holy Spirit. I am in the Word daily and have learned not to proof text scripture like so many legalistic fundamentalists do. God is love. God's love is demonstrated through God's grace. God's grace trumps the law. I live in the love and grace of God.

    • 

      nicole gardner April 20, 2016 Reply

      Reverend,
      May I point out that we all- Gothard included- "live in the love & grace of God" (Job 12:10, Acts 17:28). The purpose of my commenting here is like yours in that we object to Gothard's denial that God freely provides His life, love, & grace to ought other than Gothard himself. My commenting (I started when I found this site a year & a half ago) also has an additional impetus; that Gothard, in his self-marketing as a Christian leader, has not lived OUT this which we all live IN. Treating others with respect is priority for any & every Christian. That means also not taking advantage of anyone to that person's disrespect and/or physical harm for the sake of one's own gratification. God IS love. And we are made in His image.
      
      I must say, though, that Gothard would not have wreaked the widespread, profound harm done through his disrespect/lechery had he instead committed to a monogamous relationship of any kind.

      • 

        huzandbuz April 20, 2016 Reply

        Nicole:
        Ya really think so????
        
        What (13-17 or even 20 year old) young lady would commit to having a monogamous relationship (marriage) with him?!?! Is there any evidence he was EVER interested in a woman his age?? It certainly does not appear he is a one 'woman' man....
        
        Didn't he ask the board's permission to marry a young girl?? It is beyond peculiar that he would even ASK for their APPROVAL. Wasn't he 'Above Board'?? (pun)

        • 

          nicole gardner April 21, 2016

          True that, Huzandbuz!
          He could have taken a 16-year-old as a wife (he would have told her parents they needed to yield to his authority since he'd already "replaced" them in that role over her). I believe (besides that the board would've had a cow) that the reason he didn't take a 16-year-old into wedlock when he was, say, at 49 years of age was because he did the math. She would be 36 by the time he was 59. At 59, he was sexually assaulting a 20-year-old. So he had definitely thought ahead.
          And while the notion "Why buy a cow when I'm having thrills in stealing all the milk I want" applies to all lechers, Gothard applied this mentality in his own unique way that greatly complicated any acquiring of a wife. He only had a thing for CALFS (pun intended!), not cows. His pride in light of the more sensible-perception-of-others along with his habitual questing for variety kept him from entering into holy matrimony with any one calf. His thing was more like: "Why plant an apple tree when I might end up with actual fruit if I missed a few blossoms in ripping them off? Also I can't settle on which tree has the buds I like the most; but if I did settle & cut off all these budding branches to permanently stake in my own yard, this would show the world I take the bloom off the tree instead of letting it become fruit. All that disapproval for what doesn't even stay blossoms but would be borne on into fruit that I've never wanted! So, as long as I keep doing this on the sly, no one will know that I only like blooms and I won't be stuck with apple-bearing that's too much to manage & that doesn't even appeal to me." This way, when he was in his late 70's he was still rubbing the bloom of off 13-year-olds. And he smoke-screened by his widespread proclamation of his "Nazarite"-vow-of-abstention from apple trees (marriage) & all things connected (females).
          He always did the math.

14. 

    nicole gardner April 21, 2016 Reply

    Correcting my own typo above^^^^
    "She would be 26", not, '"She would be 36"'
    Even age 26 was/is definitely much older than his type!

    • 

      David Pigg December 29, 2017 Reply

      Awesome,Nicole:tell it like it is.

15. 

    John Maynard December 3, 2017 Reply

    As a young married couple my wife and I began attending Basic seminars about 1977. Over the next 20 years we attended approximately 26 Basic, Advanced, and Ministers Seminars. ( all total) We of course became very familiar with the material and information presented. Through the years we have appreciated having been encouraged to memorize Scripture, forgive and overlook personal offenses, be discerning in our choices of music and friendships, make the most of our time, look and act with those in authority over us in a way that benefits our overall ‘success’ in life, and much more.
    It is only in the past 10 years that we began learning of Bill’s defects of behavior with his employees. I have read through the 3rd Amended Complaint, (about. 390 pages) listing the 160 or so charges against him by the dozens of Plaintiffs.
    I have read Bill’s recently released apology and the response to that apology by this organization.
    With the limited information I have referred to above I come to this conclusion:
    1). The Principles of Gods word I have learned are still the best guidance I have to rely on in this life and
    2). Keeping my eyes on Jesus and not on humankind is still the best view point.
    I pray that healing and restoration will progress with all parties concerned.
    Sincerely, John Maynard at [email protected]

16. 

    kevin December 27, 2017 Reply

    John Maynard,
    Thank you for your comments and for taking the time to participate in the discussion.
    While I appreciate, and agree with, your conclusion # 2:
    “2). Keeping my eyes on Jesus and not on humankind is still the best view point.”
    When I read your conclusion # 1, I can’t help but say that I think that you are missing it:
    “1). The Principles of Gods word I have learned are still the best guidance I have to rely on in this life”
    It is not just the sins of Gothard, which you speak of, that are the problem. The problem is also the teachings. In fact, I believe that there is a conflict in your conclusions # 1 and #2. People did not follow #2 and, consequently, they believe # 1 to be true, as do you. The problem is that these were not biblical teachings taught, but those of a man. Were some of the teachings biblical? Sure. Many of the principals do reflect Scripture. But, so many do not. The authority teaching, that you pay respect to in your post, has done great harm to thousands. Many are here and in recovery specifically because of those teachings. And, the abuse that went on, likely went on for so many decades unchallenged, due to the nature of the authority structure that was ingrained into people. What you may believe to be biblical principals regarding authority and the Umbrella of Protection, are really just the ideas of a man and not biblical at all. Why was Gothard able to convince so many people that the things that he was teaching were actually in the Bible, when they were not? Many reasons, but one big one is that your conclusion # 2 was not followed. I believe that had Gothard not been elevated like he was and had the focus been kept on Jesus, that Gothard’s words would have been seen for what they were, those of a man, and that Gothard’s word would have been tested against God’s word, and more often than not, would have been found to be unbiblical.
    
    Brother, I appreciate your prayers for healing. I, too, pray for healing, and I also pray that you would examine each and every teaching that you learned from Gothard and his organization hold it up to the test of Scripture.

17. 

    Allan Cady June 4, 2018 Reply

    I realize I'm in the minority here, but I feel moved to comment.
    
    I attended IBYC's basic seminar twice -- first in 1974 as a sophomore in high school, then again in 1976 during the summer after I graduated. I didn't have a very good idea of what I wanted to do with my life, and the highly structured nature of Gothard's teaching seemed like it offered support to help me cope with the uncertainty and anxiety I felt. I hadn't been raised in a Christian home, and I was young and not yet equipped to understand how profoundly distorted his teaching was, or as it turned out, how much of a confused hypocrite he was, and apparently still is.
    
    I pretty much gave up on Gothard after a year or two -- I was never able to reconcile his teaching with real life. I'm grateful that I did, but nevertheless it caused me harm at that young age that took years to untangle. I stuck it out with Evangelical Christianity for most of the next decade, but eventually after getting a good college education and having time to think things through deeply, I realized I had no basis for believing in Christianity whatsoever, and by the time I was 30 I had happily let it go, realizing that the constant strain of having to prop up that belief system in spite of overwhelming evidence and reason against it, had caused me far more harm than the good it had done me.
    
    That was over 30 years ago, and I have to say that bidding Christianity adieu was the greatest gift I ever gave myself. I see a lot of people here who suffered harm from trying to follow Gothard, but are still living under the bondage of loyalty to a belief system that, from my perspective, is entirely fictional. I would say to anyone here who is in a position of wondering if there is any truth at all in Christianity and is considering giving up on the whole ball of wax -- come on in, the water is fine. Once you get past the artificially constructed fear of what might happen if you let it go, and just decide to deal with reality as it is... things are so much easier and sane. Viewed from the outside, fundamentalist Christianity is really a mess of incoherent fictions. I haven't missed it for a minute since I found the courage to say, "enough."
    
    If anyone is looking for an interesting read on the subject, I might suggest starting with Dan Barker's "Godless."
    
    Wishing you all the best...
    
    Allan
    Seattle Washington

    • 

      Don Rubottom June 11, 2018 Reply

      Allen,
      
      Thank you for your honest reflections. Unfortunately, you are not the one who decides whether something is fiction or not, regardless of how that decision makes you feel. As Bob Dylan so aptly put it: you gotta serve somebody. I too am educated, have thought deeply about these things even longer than you, and along with many educated people before me, I have to account for an empty tomb and a fearless collection of world-changing losers who said He arose. I am not free to dismiss that evidence, nor the evidence of countless souls rescued from all forms of bondage by faith in Jesus Christ and believing the Scriptures, nor the evidence of hospitals, schools, universities, libraries, and all manner of philanthropy generated by Christian faith. I would be interested to know, more than your feeling of freedom from bondage, but how you dismiss the evidence that Christianity changed the pagan world for lasting good.
      But I do thank you for participating in the discussion. Your observations of how Gothard's seminar was calculated to reach you in your youthful insecurity is spot on! But you might ponder, rather than merely dismiss, why so many here at "Recovering Grace" still praise the Name and works of Jesus while confronting the false teachings of some of His self-proclaimed servants. The last thing any thinking man should want to do is allow a clown like Gothard to come between himself and the Living Creator.

    • 

      rob war June 12, 2018 Reply

      Allen,
      Have you given up on Christianity or is it, you have given up belief in God? Christianity is bigger than the fundamentalist/evangelical world you were exposed to long ago. Whatever truncated version you had or tried to participate in, is not the bigger Christian picture. Dan Barker's book sets up straw men in order to knock them down and justify his unbelief. I have a book suggestion in return and that is "Five Proofs of the Existence of God" by Edward Feser. He uses arguments of reason and philosophy such as Aristotle, Plato, Thomas Aquinas, Augustine and a rationalist Leibniz. i recommend it to you because you stated you have used your thinking and reasoning to reject the irrationality you encountered with some segments of fundamentalism (which I think you were more exposed to than true Evangelicalism). So 3 of the 5 "proof" used are not "Christian" which might counter Dan Barker. The next book I would recommend you is "The Light of Christ" by Thomas Joseph White. If you only read the first chapter of this book, it might be worth your while because the first chapter is directed to people like yourself in "Revelation and Reason" and talks about proof of God and if so, why Christianity and builds from there and that faith in God and even Christianity is very reasonable and reason based as opposite of what you were exposed to long ago. I don't think someone that claims to have written off Christianity and God would have just written on a Christian blog in friendly tones if they weren't still searching deeply themselves. St. Augustine who was an atheist before he converted wrote "our hearts are restless, until they rest in thee".

    • 

      LynnCD June 12, 2018 Reply

      All the best to you as well, Allan! I would be of the same mind you are, but I can't get away from Isaiah 53, written some 700 years before Christ, which points to the ministry of Christ for sinners. I am freed from legalism, but bound by faith to the Lord Jesus.

      • 

        David PIGG June 13, 2018 Reply

        I find in my desperation,scepticism,fear,and "hopelessness", that Christ is not the problem,I am.And yet He isn't too thin skinned to be criticised and can take anger.My burden of myself will always be there;may God in His infinite patience work around and through my ignorance in spite of my flesh.He will sense the cry of the spirit.He isn't far away.

18. 

    Nicole Gardner June 15, 2018 Reply

    Allan,
    For what it’s worth, I’ve found that phonies & creeps are rare in Christian circles, as compared to the world at large. It is therefore ironically unfortunate that the fewer that ARE in & amongst us do indeed mow down a way bigger swath of sheeple than usually ever happens to goats. And, via just one destroyer, versus myriads of independent creeps that proliferate a life lived outside the church!!! This is pitiful regarding both sides of the coin that I hereby compare. I’m sure I don’t need to explain all the dynamics of either phenomenon to the likes of you. And I also commend you for being honest in your departure from Christianity, as opposed to faking-it in order to still reap the benefits of being included amongst a local, earthly family of God. You are more Christ-like than those in the midst of church whose deception I speak of. May you be well.
    
    ~Nicole

19. 

    Aubrey Haltom June 17, 2019 Reply

    Galatians 4 says: "They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them." This verse sums up the essence of a cult: 1. They "hook" you with a big smile and a warm affection, but the intent is not good: 2. They find a legalistic point on which to "exclude" you and make you feel no longer accepted, so that: 3. You will then be overly anxious to show affection and cooperation to them (read: loyalty).
    
    Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing. You will know them by their fruits: There is no love in the above scenario. No joy. No peace. No longsuffering. No gentleness. No goodness, meekness, kindness, self control or faith.
    
    I feel saddened for the church of Jesus Christ because of IBYC and ATI. I feel sorry toward the thousands who were duped and harmed by this cult. If you are one, please believe me: "it wasn't you, it was them." But now we retain their sins in the name of Jesus Christ. This we do, not for ourselves, but for the Kingdom of Heaven; that no more harm will come to the Flock of God.
    
    Part of the sadness of this deception is that some will use it to discredit the Word of God. Sadly, this cult has actually facilitated those who desire to turn the truth of God into a lie and worship and serve the creature rather than the Creator. God is still true, and every man a liar. An adulterer or a thief or an unclean person is still unable to hide from the truth of God--no matter what cults may say or do.

20. 

    Katie Simmons July 5, 2023 Reply

    When on earth are people going to open their eyes to the OBVIOUS oppression of women through 'religion' and 'faith.' This is all hogwash. Tired of people asserting their beliefs over others, especially if they are a male hiding under the 'umbrella of authority.' Anyone ever look at the picture of 'Jesus?' Why is he white with blonde hair in the Bible? He was from the Middle East and never would have had blonde hair, blue eyes, long hair, and wore a long dress.

    • 

      kevin July 8, 2023 Reply

      Thanks for your thoughts Katie.
      
      Would really love to hear your thoughts on IBLP/ATI. Were you involved? What was your take away? Any experiences that you want to share here?