Dear Recovering Grace Reader,
Today we would like to prayerfully share with you some important information about what is going to be happening on our website over the next few months.
When we launched our website in July of 2011, we did so with the express mission of helping people whose lives have been impacted by the teachings of Bill Gothard through the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) seminars and the Advanced Training Institute (ATI) homeschool program. We have attempted to fulfill that mission through regularly posted articles primarily written by former students of ATI—articles that have covered a wide variety of issues such as theological discussions of IBLP teachings, personal stories of discovering grace, and bringing to light some of the darker aspects of working at an IBLP Training Center. What we truthfully did not realize at the time of our launch was the strong undercurrent of depravity displayed for decades at the highest levels of IBLP leadership. Our thought at the time was that the most viscerally damaging effects of Gothardism were spiritual, and that Bill Gothard’s worst flaws were theological and hermeneutical. As such, most of our attention for the first year of our website was focused on these areas.
In early 2012, this all changed for us when a young lady shared with us her experiences working for Bill Gothard at Headquarters. While it has long been widely known by anyone who worked there that Bill had his favorites, this young lady opened our eyes to what being a “favorite” meant: unwanted and unwarranted emotional and physical attention from a man in a position of authority to young women who could not refuse it. In other words, it was textbook sexual harassment.
So, on April 20, 2012, we published Lizzie’s story. And as soon as we did, we discovered that we had opened Pandora’s box. The emails and comments poured in like a flood, and we knew that we had stumbled across something bigger than we could have ever anticipated. A few weeks later, we published Annette’s story; a year later, Grace’s. Over the past two weeks, Meg has shared with us her very painful personal journey. And, later this week, we will share yet another account.
Since the time that Lizzie’s story was published, we have identified by name at least 34 different women who have experienced the same harassment, and we have sufficient evidence to believe that there are dozens more. We have had men and women who served in IBLP leadership confirm that the allegations are true, although they felt (and often were) powerless to do anything at the time. In fact, we have learned that the IBLP Board of Directors has on more than one occasion addressed this behavior with Bill Gothard, but to no lasting avail.
Once we had enough verifiable and/or witnessed accounts to be certain without a shadow of doubt that the allegations of ongoing sexual harassment were true (we have lawyers on our team reviewing the data), we issued a public Call to Repentance to Bill Gothard on June 6, 2013. In this article we identified the pattern of behavior and issued a call for him
Two weeks later, we received a brief email from Bill Gothard requesting a meeting with us for the purposes of “reconciliation.” What followed was a 12-day-long exchange of emails in which we would ask specific questions of him in an attempt to discern whether this was a sincere effort towards repentance. Each response we received from him was vague and non-specific, and at no time did he admit to or indicate that he took responsibility for any of the inappropriate behavior, only that he desired that the “painful memories” of those involved in the IBLP ministry could be “resolved.” Our last official communication with him took place on July 1, 2013, when we stated our belief that:
the first step towards reconciliation with those you have offended must be sincere repentance. While we respect that you feel sorrow over others’ painful memories, we do not believe that sorrow alone is sufficient to mitigate others’ pain. As Paul states in 2 Corinthians 7:10, a godly sorrow leads to true repentance. Until we see some evidence of this repentance and a desire to turn from your sin, our organization will be unable to assist you in reconciling with those you have sinned against. Reconciliation apart from repentance by the offender is, quite simply, impossible.
There was never a response to that email. However, Bill Gothard did contact one of our team members on October 18, 2013, at which time he stated in a phone call that he had requested a meeting with the Recovering Grace team and that “they didn’t feel that [a meeting] was in order at the time.” Our team member reminded him that we were waiting for specific indications of repentance, to which Bill replied that he would indeed follow up with such a response. This response was never received.
Meanwhile, our team continued to receive emails and collect information that confirmed to us that these problems were not limited to the ATI era (1984–present) of Bill Gothard’s ministry. We learned that this type of behavior was commonplace in the early years of the Institute ministry, culminating in a public “scandal” that led to Bill Gothard’s forced resignation from the ministry in 1980, only to see him forcefully return to power shortly thereafter, decimating the financial and spiritual lives of dozens of Institute staff members in the process. The ministry nearly came to an end at that point, but Bill was able to revive it with a new group of leaders who were willing to overlook what had taken place. A few short years later, in 1984, the Advanced Training Institute of America homeschool program was created, and with it came a new generation of willing laborers … and young victims.
As our database of troubling information has grown, our team has struggled over what to do with what we know. We have always tried to demonstrate a grace-based approach to our work and ministry, even towards the one man we believe to be the originator of the greatest damage. However, we also know that God desires both justice and mercy, and that grace does not preclude justice or truth. Every time we hear of another young person struggling with their faith in God, or dealing with chronic health issues because of physical mistreatment and exhaustion while working at a training center, or fighting depression and confusion because they were sexually harassed by Bill Gothard, an inescapable question confronts us: What can we do with this information to ensure that the abuse does not continue to happen?
We based our decision on a passage of Scripture familiar to most ex-ATIers: Matthew 18—wherein Christ teaches us how to deal with a sinning brother. We know that Bill Gothard has been confronted one-on-one many times about his sin, as well as in groups of two and three, so our team believes that it is time for us to engage in the final phase of this process which is found in Matthew 18:17: “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.”
With this passage in mind, the Recovering Grace team has decided that over the next couple of months we are going to release a large volume of information concerning the life and ministry of Bill Gothard. This information will come in the form of personal accounts, never-before-published documents and correspondence, and factual reports of events that were swept under the rug years ago. Additionally, many of the coming articles will clearly show how individuals attempted to reconcile with Bill Gothard and/or follow the Matthew 18 process but were met with persistent refusal to acknowledge the issues, distortion of the truth, and a resistance to follow biblical steps towards humble repentance.
Guiding our release of this information will be one singular resolution that we hope will put an end to this malevolence once and for all:
Whereas Bill Gothard has exhibited a 40-year pattern of moral failure,
abuse of spiritual authority, and mishandling of Scripture, and is therefore
disqualified from Christian ministry according to Titus 1 and I Timothy 3,
we believe that the only biblical course of action is for Bill Gothard to step down
from all ministry and leadership positions, publicly repent of the above sins,
and exhibit fruit in keeping with repentance (Matt. 3:8).
After two and a half years of publications, we hope and trust that our readership has grown to understand that this statement and this series of posts is not one born of vindictiveness, spitefulness, or gratuitousness. Our hope is that this undertaking will provide healing for the many victims and repentance to Bill’s heart. Each member of our team has donated countless hours to this project at great emotional, mental, and physical cost, and each of us has, in many ways, left our current lives to revisit a time in our lives that we could just as easily forget. But for the sake of our younger brothers and sisters in Christ who are still in danger, we refuse to look the other way and allow the abuse to continue.
Amidst all of this, it is our ultimate calling before God that drives us now as it has since our first day in July 2011: a calling to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with our God (Micah 6:8). It is our deepest prayer that God would use the efforts of Recovering Grace to demonstrate publicly what justice, mercy, and humility look like when exemplified in the church of Jesus Christ. We would ask for your prayers and support as we embark upon this endeavor.
The Recovering Grace Team
July 31, 2024
Thank you for speaking up for those with no voice.
My daughter just shared this article on FB...to say I was elated is putting it mildly! Thank you for exposing this man and his twisted teachings... I've been watching entire generations of young Christians being intimidated, manipulated and dominated by this wolf in sheep's clothing for decades now. Keep up the good work!!!
That is great to hear! Good for your daughter. I posted on Facebook too and I've read another Facebook post directing people here. It is so important that we get the word out and warn others. I have friends deep in ATI and they are always actively recruiting to the cult. If word gets out there and the Church is warned, it will be much harder for him to continue to do harm to young girls and families.
i hope this tool gets arrested. my parents made me visit him and i hated him, and i told everyone there somethings not right with him, but everyone says he's bill gothard, he's a God. my parents still like him and think im troubled but at least some of the the other boys that met him see his true colors. too bad he tells his followers that internet is a sin so most of his followers wont hear about the pedophile he is. and i hope i get to meet him again some day cause i have a few choice words to say to him.
How is it that so many of us who attended the seminars didn't know about what happened in 1981? We even attended the advanced seminar after that date and considered a vasectomhy reversal (didn't do it though). When our daughters were engaged we asked their husbands to be to attned one. Handed out the brochure on marriage at our oldest daughter's wedding......How did they keep that so secret? We kept getting the booklets in the mail, the birthday greetings, etc, etc, etc. We considedred ATI for our youngest son but the beard thing turned us off on that. Our daughter considered it and even signed up and attended a training session in Indianapolis. But things didn't look right there and after she tried to do it she asked for a refund...and actually got it. But all those years have still impacted our lives in little ways. We still find ourselves saying things that we have to stop and say..."Oh wait, that is from Gothard".. Yes, his tentacles are far reaching even beyond ATI.
Eva, I believe the answer is very short and simple. The internet didn't exist back then.
I never felt right about him as a new Christian in the early 70's. Everyone was buying this expensive binder and ascribing lots of respect for a guy who at that time lived with his parents, told pastors not to have sex before their morning service, and just touted himself as God's moral compass for the church's young people. I am glad I didn't buy into his weirdness. As a novice believer I knew that just didn't seem normal nor biblical. If someone is off in one way, it usually translates to more ways down the road. In 40 plus years of knowing God, I find this to be true.
Yes, Megan,
I recall Mr Gothard warning about the accessibility of Pornography for young people, not have use of the internet. Sadly, it a true concern. Several of my sons have struggled with this addiction. I praise God for their supportive wives. I am so saddened to hear of these allegations. I have no reason to idolize Mr Gothard or villanize. I can see how it would have been so difficult to report the sexual harassment.
My dad knew about the scandal in the "80's. He chose to believe it was Mr. Gothard's brother and he was just covering for him. I remember him arguing with friends about it.
Found this today after reading this blog, my curiosity got the best of me when looked up Bill's brother:
Longtime resident at Camp Arden in Loon Lake, interior and rustic furniture designer Stephen (Steve) E. Gothard, 72, died at home Dec. 1, 2019. He was born Jan. 17, 1946.
Steve was a native of LaGrange, Illinois and graduate of Elmhurst College with a baccalaureate degree in Economics and minors in Business and Art Design. After graduation Steve joined his family-led organization presenting seminars on practical life principles. During his 11 years with the business, it grew into a nationally recognized organization. Steve is also the principle writer for an award winning series of books selling over 2.5 million volumes. Steve’s other business experiences included owning an employment agency providing engineers, scientists, technicians, and administrative professionals for Fermilab, America’s particle physics and accelerator laboratory. During this time, Steve acquired and brought to market a revolutionary state of the art technology designed to replace the dangerous core and coil transformers that illuminated neon signage. The small, solid-state unit was standardized to match the length of varying neon tubing thus preventing over-heating.
Most recently, Steve owned and managed Arden Creek Designs which began as a project to teach his children, now grown adults, the business of building and marketing designs unique to the artisans of the Adirondacks. Steve and his son XXXXX have expanded the company to include a wide variety of rustic furnishings and have become specialists in the application of birch bark wall coverings. His projects included major corporations, institutions, and private residents. Arden Creek Designs has been featured in the New York Times, ELLE DECOR, and Veranda Magazines. The television series, “Rustic Living and Vermont Living” features the work of Arden Creek Designs.
One of his most cherished accomplishments was serving nine years on the Adirondack Health Foundation Board. Steve was passionate about wildlife preservation, an avid collector of decoys and antiques, historian, and most of all loved his family and the Lord. Survivors include his wife, XXXXX daughter XXXXXXX, son XXXXXXX, two son’s-in-law XXXXX and XXXXX, and two grandchildren XXXXX and XXXXX. Steve has two sisters and two brothers and is preceded in death by his parents William and Carmen, and his sister Joan.
Fellowship and a memorial service will be held at the Fortune-Keough Funeral Home on Thursday Dec. 12 from 4:30 to 5:30 p.m. with a memorial service to follow. All are welcome to attend and celebrate his life. The family has made a donation to the Adirondack Wildlife Refuge & Rehabilitation Center in Wilmington in his name. We would ask that others consider a donation in lieu of flowers http://adirondackwildlife.org.
My parents knew about it. They were told it was only Bill's brother, and that he had been removed from the ministry. Of course, Bill retained his mantle of moral superiority, since he is above sexual temptations.
My parents knew of the scandal, but only because they were personal friends with the local area coordinators. My parents were led to believe that only Steve was at fault, while Bill was blameless in the matter. I have since learned otherwise.
I was at a Long Beach seminar apparently right after the scandal broke. Bill got up there and gave a very general confession to the effect that he had let his brother down. That was his confession and sin -- he let his brother down. I was with a big church group and not one of us had a clue what he was talking about, only to learn about the real horror of the scandal later -- forcing 7 women to have sex with him because he was their supposed authority. But I was amazed at how Bill simply strengthened his image by being so humble to confess. This is why, despite the value of all of the current stories about Bill's conduct, the focus needs to get back to the doctrine and false teaching -- especially on authority -- that makes all of this abuse possible. Expose THAT for the heresy that it is, and the rest will fall. Keep the focus solely on the abuse, and Bill already knows how to confess in order to make his accusers look like the bad guys.
Allen,
You make a good point, and I agree with you on the false teaching on authority. I wanted to clarify something, because I am not sure it came across accurate in your post, but it was Steve, Bill's younger brother, who had sex with the female staff members, not Bill. But, if I understand it correctly, Bill was accused of covering it up and/or not dealing with it.
I think we need to continue to push forward making the case for him to step down for all of his transgressions; the sexual predatory behavior and the false teachings. It is very hard to convince Gothardites of the false teachings. I have sat down with them for hours, Gothard textbook in one hand, the Bible in the other, and shown them where his teachings are totally false. I've shown them the very well written paper done by the group of elders from the Texas church: " A Call for Discernment". Letters and warnings from theologians and pastors about the false teachings. They pay attention, act concerned, and then tell you that they will research it and "seek the Lord". Years later, still at it, and still trying to get others into the cult.
With the sexual abuse testimonies, the church is finally listening. The natural reaction is to reexamine all of his teachings, and this I believe is happening too. One mother whose family is very deep in Gothardism told me that they have raised their family for the past 17 years on Bill Gothard's teachings. Now, she will have to face the reality that they have raised their family on the teachings of a sexual predator. It is going to be painful, but my hope is that they will throw out the whole lot. We know that some still won't get it, or will willfully blind themselves to the truth, but I think we need to warn the church of all the dangers of this man to be the most effective. But, yest, point out continuously that his false teaching on authority led to the sexual abuse.
Allen, there is another reason why you are right about focusing on the heretical teachings. Just as the debauchery of the 60's has led to academia and politics being filled with hippies with haircuts, 40 years of IBYC has led to church leadership being filled with heretical Gothardites.
My wife and I have been through 2 church splits in the past 10 years. In both cases, we joined with others, in sincere, careful application of Matt. 18, in exposing serious errors in the local congregation (the first, financial mismanagement, the second, at least 5 years of blatant sermon plagiarism on a scale that would be prosecutable on any given Sunday). Having just read the Matt. 18 expose', we now see that Gothard's twisting of those plain instructions were used against us to suppress the truth. In each case, we, the truth-tellers, the ‘victims‘, were characterized as the guilty party. Then the denominational higher-ups stepped in to tell us that our interpretation and application of Matt. 18 was all wrong. They then set up ground rules that made it impossible for us to achieve our goal of bringing the offenders to repentance and restoration.
We adopted our children in the 80's. Early in their lives, we read BG’s unbiblical teachings on adoption. From then on, we never had any use for BG or any of his teachings, so we were unfamiliar with his Matt. 18 heresies. It is plain to us now that, in the second church split, the Moody-trained 'big gun' pulled his IBYC Matt 18 material off the shelf and used it point-by-point to protect the pastor and freeze us out. Up until now, we wondered "Where in the world did he ever come up with this crazy misapplication of Matt. 18? We thought he knew his Bible!"
So now two broken churches in our small town have BG to thank (blame)for enabling what BG considers the worst of all situations, a church split, when reconciliation was within reach through a proper application of Matt 18. So, yes, Recovering Grace needs to keep exposing BG's heretical teachings, because they are hurting churches all over the world every day.
I appreciate your commitment to facts & research & documentation. I have some experience in legal matters as relating to divorce & child custody, so I'm fully aware of the horrible damage of false accusations. Thank you for refusing to deal in hype and wild accusations. I can see the "character qualities" of Truthfulness, Diligence, Thoroughness, Wisdom - and even Love - in your work! I'm sure the committed Gothard supporters will still try to deny the truth, but you are working very hard to verify the truth of the stories you are sharing, and I greatly appreciate that. Thank you!
Recovering Grace and all who have suffered under Gothard have been more patient than required by any Christian denomination
I am a Catholic. Our church decided that waiting for abusive priests to reform was more important than protecting children. Please, please learn from our church's mistakes rather than repeating them.
Gothard is hurting the people he is leading. If he has not stopped by now, he will not stop given more time. It is time for Gothard to be publicly exposed and removed from leadership.
Mel, thank you for saying saying this. It is so sad that battered sheep are left to fend for themselves so the guilty authority figures are protected.
I couldn't more supportive about what you're doing. I am proud of the way you are handling this and will be following your progress updates eagerly.
Thank you Recovering Grace team...! I feel that sometimes grace is soft and peaceful and when necessary, it must roar. This next move on your part is a recognition of the pathology that Gothard carries and make an effort to protect more lives from his senseless harm.
There is a saying that has proved itself theoughout the history of mankind. "Absolute power corrupts, absolutely". I don't see a man who has had absolute power for so many years repenting. His pattern has become his acceptable way of behavior. It's human nature. I'm shocked it's only harassment harassment at this point.
"It's not so much that power corrupts as that power tends to attract the already-corrupt and easily-corruptible."
-- SF Author Frank Herbert (Dune)
Thank you so much for using information wisely. Thank you for taking on the task of dealing with issues that others continue to hide from. It's nothing "fun" to talk about or deal with, but for truth and justice sake, for the vulnerable who have been exploited, we NEED this!
Like the comment above - Let's not mimic the Catholic church and continue to ignore moral problems and wrongs out of misguided "respect" for a "man of God". Please. We all have negative thoughts towards that situation with the Catholic Church, but will cover for one man here?
For the kids (and adults) who are where I once stood - alone, isolated, hanging on to what they "know" because that's all they have, standing there without a voice. Thank you for being a voice for them.
im sorry i wasnt clear in my last comment. i meant that my husband is non ATI, not myself. my family was involved with ATI for many years. we joined in 1992 or 93 and were involved in programs affiliated w ATI into the mid-2000's.
reading "meg's" testimony opened my eyes. i am sickened. many memories have come flooding back. i also was given "special stares and comments". and was repeatedly asked to cme work at HQ. the earliest memory i have of inappropriate behavior on the part of Mr G was at a counseling seminar in 1997.
although asked to come work at HQ several times, i and my parents never felt the need for me to go. thus, my involvement was at other training centers.
please follow through with this plan to bring the ministry leader to his knees in admission, repentance, and cancellation of his leadership. he needs to step down. and he needs to step down Now.
thank you!
Thank you for leading the movement to ask Mr. Gothard to step down. This has been a complicated matter on so many levels and finding a solution to the problem is not an easy one. I support your solution. Forgiveness is divine, but we must not constantly ask to be forgiven or to forgive - at some point we must be told to stop the actions that require us to think about forgiveness in the first place. I pray that all involved will find peace and a new, deeper fellowship with God.
Sad that so many men in positions of honor don't finish well.
Today I raise my glass in honor of little old men with a blue haired wife by their side. These unknown, slow driving,balding, pant hiking, septuagenarians deserve our reverence. Perhaps they never soared with the eagles of humanity, but they demand respect due to faithful men. These are the men we should follow.
Hear, hear!
I like the way you think
Matthew 20:25-28
I'll drink to that, Daniel.
I hope I can be one of the ole guys with a blue haired wife by my side someday!!!
amen, brother. "staying by the stuff"
He did not finish well because he did not journey well. Rarely does anyone mess up at the end with a solid trail behind them
I agree that there are many who are great role models all around us who have never received accolades along the way.
It is difficult for a man to see reason when it affects his "paycheque"
Upton Sinclair
You are all so gracefully in your approach. Thank you for your ministry. I will be praying for your team in the coming days, weeks and months as this series unfolds. The Enemy is at work here, and it is important that we fight with the full amour of God. (Ephes. 6)
Thank. You.
If you ever need any more works on recovering grace, God gave me freedom from my fears last year.
I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I would offer one qualification to your approach. When scripture says to bring it before the church, the idea isn't a public release of information to all Christians, it's a call to the local body, via the local elders. When you state that you are about to release large amounts of damaging info on the web it seems as if you are mudslinging and threatening with an ultimatum. I know this isn't your intention, and simply want to offer a caution as to how this may be perceived. As Paul teaches in Ephesians, we should be above reproach, and this all the more when dealing with a brother in Christ in regards to church discipline. Bill does attend a local church, I know people who attend there as well, and they do have elders that preside over the congregation. I would recommend contacting them first, sending them all the information you have, and letting them act on it before you publish it all to the web. If your heart is to restore him (as scripture says the intent of discipline is to do), this seems to be the most Christlike path. Preserve him, and you, and by extension the reputation of the church.
In Christ,
Nicholas
How does your suggestion help all those churches and their members where he held Seminars. Mr Gothard has gleaned Christians from every corner of the globe and taught them something contrary to the Word of God by taking verses out of context. How does dealing with him in a local setting help those at a distance understand they have been deceived?
I have lived with heartache over family members who have embraced his false teachings. They do not attend his local church. How is he to make things right with them?
with you all, it is impossible, only with God are all things possible, never witnessed so much hate toward a fallen one, if not a brother then he needs to be saved. I know you will say there is not hate, but your comments surely do not show it.
http://ericgeiger.com/2014/04/bothered-bob-coys-failure/#.U1swPlVdV1m
I see hurt, not hate. I hear the deep struggles that many are finally able to talk about. I see healing because scores of people finally do not walk alone in their struggles with guilt, shame, legalism and offences.
He sinned not primarily within a church but towards thousands of individuals and family across the world. He did not have a relationship with the majority of those who submitted to his teaching. He was very public and therefore this is the only way one can connect with his former followers. His ministry/teaching could be accessed by internet so how can you only go to the leaders of one church?
Nicholas, please name Bill's local church here...or at least email that information to Recovering Grace...so that we may all be informed. I assume you don't mean Pastor Wells' church in Oklahoma City? Bill was a member there previously, but the commute from Chicago was probably too much.
Bill Gothard has a public ministry and a public website. The damage he and his organization has done is widespread. Thus, any exposure ought to be public. Bill Gothard has been appealed to for 40 years on every level imaginable. He has ignored those appeals. He has been approached privately, by groups within the church, and even publically. This IS the church dealing with him. Trying to do this through his local congregation is not mandated. Thus, it is totally within the spirit of Matthew 18 that he be publicly exposed. Frankly, it should have happened years ago -- Eastern Christian Outreach tried.
That would be wonderful, to present under in a specific body of believers. But Bill has looooooong since taken himself out from under an and all local church authority, and encouraged his most loyal followers to do the same, even to come out from the established churches and form their own fellowships. When a leader in any realm refuses all authority, it becomes the duty of his peers to unite to stop him from destroying not only the public, but also himself. Absolute power DESTROYS all things in its wake. It is sad. It is awful. But it is necessary.
Gothard's followers are not gathered together in a single church, though. This is one of the more effective venues to reach them. I see no reason the passage cannot also refer to "Church", with a capital "C". Paul was very public in his approach to false teachers.
"Paul was very public in his approach to false teachers."
As was Jesus. The false teachers of the day were the Pharisees and he rebuked them publicly. That is the Biblical model for handling false teachers. Following Mat 18 is commendable, but not necessary when dealing with a false teacher.
Nicholas, I see what you are saying.
However, Gothard is not simply a local deacon, elder, or pastor in a local body. He is an internationally known Bible teacher with a worldwide ministry. Even if he were in a local church (and it appears he is not), that local church would have no power over IBLP and its affiliates.
Many ministries have tried, without success, to have private meetings with Gothard and his top management, but without success. And those meetings were simply to discuss concerns about doctrinal matters or matters of low-level practice. But now we're dealing with stories that would get the average company a nasty EEOC complaint and a hefty lawsuit.
However, Gothard is not simply a local deacon, elder, or pastor in a local body. He is an internationally known Bible teacher with a worldwide ministry.
i.e. he is a CELEBRITY on the order (within his milieu) of Michael Jackson or Justin Beiber, and he has his Loyal Beliebers.
Starting in 2009, I worked at IBLP for about year. During that time, while there was a baptist church Mr. Gothard attended, he wasn't visibly involved in it more than going on Sunday mornings, and even then he tended to obviously zone out or doze off. I don't know if bringing it before his church would be effective in the slightest.
I know what you're trying to say, but let me take just say this right here, rather loudly:
THE ENTIRE BODY OF CHRIST IS THE CHURCH. NOT A BUILDING OR LOCAL GATHERING. Most readers of this site are believers, they are the body of Christ... they are the church!
It's super simple. The RG staff are doing it 100% correctly. Booyah for them.
Ok that's done. What's next?
AMEN!! WELL said!
Agreed.
I agree with pvproof. The body is the church. We are the church. Handling this in a small local church is especially inappropriate given Gothard's followers and ex followers are spread all over the world. Word must get out to the body of Christ- no more victims.
Also, what you suggest has already been done and to no avail. In 1980 the group that brought charges against Gothard first went to the board and then to his local church. And where are we today 34 years later? No change in behavior, no end to the false teachings.
No. Not this time. Bill Gothard does not get to control the outcome this time.
Nicholas, I agree with you. Even though he is a part of the Church at large- the Body of Christ- he has joined himself to a local body of believers who have been given the charge of holding him accountable. If he has joined a church and come under their leadership, as Scripture encourages, then it is that body of believers that should exercise discipline. Regardless of his public ministry or not, it should begin at the local level of accountability. There is a reason Scripture teaches this model. May we live by it.
If Mr. Gothard is part of a local body, then why have they not already investigated him, since he is the center of such disturbing allegations? They cannot fail to be aware of this controversy. Why has Mr. Gothard not already enlisted their help in this very serious issue? If the leadership of his church were doing their job, they would certainly already be involved in investigating and adjudicating these charges. That they are nowhere mentioned in these accounts leads one to conclude that they are either unaware of their duties or unwilling to confront Mr. Gothard, just as his own board was unwilling over the years.
Elisabeth, Bill is not actually really a part of any one church body. According to my information, he is supposedly on the membership records of one, or possibly two churches, but according to attendance records, goes to either of them sporadically at best. I think it's pretty obvious that he's not going to put himself under anyone's authority.
The knife of 'you have not taken it to the local church' cuts both ways. Please help answer this question: "Where is the church jurisdiction in this matter?"
There is the consideration that the biblical model for dealing with a false teacher is that there is no process exception apart from dual confrontation prior to public exposure. I would assert that this exception has something to do with teachers travelling from church to church and not residing in a singular local body of believers where issues such as these can be addressed as opposed to being providing a shield behind which to hide.
Our pastor this morning preached on this topic and said, "There is no biblical path to restoration except through complete, broken repentance."
Also, if these charges are proven to be false, there is nothing for Bill to fear and an open, clear handling of these will come to nothing.
Bill Gothard's "local church" is the whole world. That's what happens when people become media celebrities.
Furthermore, before you insist that this is proper procedure, please inform us all as to how many times Jesus Christ applied to the "local church" before He drove the moneychangers out of the temple?
Oh, wait. He didn't; He went after them with a whip made of cords.....Would you prefer that the folks here at Recovering Grace did that to Mr Gothard before publishing this info online?
Hmmmmm. Didn't think so.
N Rozier, I would respectfully disagree that Matt. 18 means only that this should go to the local church. At the time of the writing of that passage, there were no methods of instant mass communication; normally, the local church was the only final place of appeal. I think we find that Scripture supports the idea that the correction needs to extend as far as the offense. In Mr. Gothard's case, many of his offenses have had worldwide effects. Therefore, it is appropriate that his unrepentant public sins have public exposure and censure. This is to protect all those who otherwise might stumble due to his false teaching and his moral failings.
Mr. Gothard,
We know you are reading this. You can put a stop to all this whenever you want. Will you? Please repent publicly. Let us know that what was considered unacceptable behavior for ATI students is unacceptable in their leader.
There is grace, God's grace, deeper than you dare imagine. I pray you will discover it. Grace doesn't mean that things will continue as they have, with the same job, same ministry, same comforts as before. Let those things go. Are they really more important than your soul?
Denial isn't working for anyone except yourself. Those of us who have worked with you recognize the truth in these accounts, and there are easily hundreds of us. Now the public at large is learning the truth.
You taught us sacrifice, self-denial, humility, and a sensitive conscience. We witnessed numerous public repentances for much more insignificant offenses, followed by the person's permanent removal from ministry. You taught that. You enacted that. Where is YOUR repentance?
Please, do what's best for your own soul, as well as God's Kingdom and His ministry. New life is possible, but death to self must occur first. It's not too late. Step down. Repent. Please.
God is watching.
Stéphanie
Spot on. God sees, and he knows. Your note is a beautiful call to repentance.
- jolly
This is a gracious exhortation and I believe, Mr. Gothard, that it represents the desire of many. I for one will be praying that you take this to heart. I think of how poorly the mayor of San Diego recently handled similar accusations. Perhaps this is a beautiful opportunity, in light of those events, to show how repentance CAN look when Christ is the one driving it. Praying for God to deal with you as firmly as necessary but as gently as possible. Thank you, Stéphanie, for your words.
Though I don't think any exhortation will work.
When the ManaGawd's ego talks, nothing else can be heard. Especially since in this milieu, Divine Right is added to that ego.
Beautifully said.
All of the reasons you have stated are reasons enough for him to be removed. You are to be applauded. But if his conduct towards young women was perfect, would there be no other reason? Bill Gothard teaches ANOTHER GOSPEL. That is the core issue here -- out of which all these other problems have emerged. It is why he needs to repent and not be in any ministry. If that is ignored, then I fear that the whole purpose of this website and what you are trying to do may be steered off course. Most of the people damaged by Gothardism have never worked for him. Please take what I am saying under consideration.
David, you are spot on. RG's statement suggests the site will prove a "pattern of moral failure, abuse of spiritual authority, and mishandling of Scripture..." His behavior will shine light on the false teachings, no doubt.
David, I think what you are saying could be reversed and it still hold true. "If all of his teachings were perfect, wouldn't just the issue with his abuse and harassment be enough?" As you said...yes it would. In the article above, it mentions 3 reasons for the call of dismissal, "Whereas Bill Gothard has exhibited a 40-year pattern of moral failure,
abuse of spiritual authority, and mishandling of Scripture". I, like you, am hoping that when RG says "we are going to release a large volume of information concerning the life and ministry of Bill Gothard." That it touches on all 3 of these areas, even if one is sufficient.
I also took from the article that, while the original idea around RG was to expose the teachings, no one could have known the outcry on the issue of abuse would be so loud. I have seen comments on the site, and on recent articles of parents saying things similar to 'Oh my gosh...we almost sent our daughter to HQ' or 'I talked to my child and this happened to them, too'. If it is helping keep more children from being abused...please shout the information from the rooftops. I dont see it as a distraction from Recovering Grace's mission.
Of course, if it were reversed it would be true. My comment was intended to point out that the VAST majority of those spiritually damaged by Gothard were never exposed to the abuse side of things. And you know that these accounts are already being denied or categorized as gossip. His theology, on the other hand, is that of a legalistic heretic. And it is all public record. I would hate to see Gothard coming out with one of his confessions over, "his moral failures," only to continue on preaching and teaching his false Christianity.
David, very true.
There is a lot of focus on his teachings.
In my understanding, there has been an ongoing process of detailing that the faulty applications are where much damage occurs.
I find my concern to be with both ethical (moral) and theological issues. However, I consider it important to deal with them as separate in order to deal with them justly and clearly.
This is difficult for those who might simply wish for Bill's character to be assassinated taking an end justifies the means type approach in order to see him torn down sans a path of just judgment.
" If it is helping keep more children from being abused...please shout the information from the rooftops"
I 100% agree. The path of having men, to whom he is suppose to be held accountable, deal with these issues internally has been taken on more than one occasion and the abuse has continued, with little more than a hiccup. He has made sure that those to whom he is suppose to be held accountable are "yes" men who will look the other way or slap him on the wrist.
It's time to let the world know and prevent the next victim, whether that be a young girl being sexually harassed, or a family fed a false works based grace. This needs to end. It will.
David, more could be said, but please know that your concern is not unheeded. People can read several links here that address the theological issues, which are many and they are crucially important. It is an ongoing concern for many of us in the RG community. Some links:
https://www.recoveringgrace.org/category/twistedscriptures/
https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/10/a-call-for-discernment/
https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/05/introduction-to-the-subtle-power-of-spiritual-abuse/
There are a number of books recommended on the side bar that are helpful as well.
The sad part is that you can hold up a sign declaring "danger! theological error" all day and most people won't see it. Most people need to see the neon lights first before they take a closer look at the deeper and less sensational issues such as the theological problems and remedies.
Agreed. David, I'm mindful of the Apostle Paul in Philippians 1 discussing those who teach our of envy and rivalry, not sincerely, and then says in effect, 'Eh, whatever.' He says Christ is still preached and he rejoices for that. But when the MESSAGE is wrong (Galatians is a great example) he's livid. Motive doesn't matter as much as message, apparently.
My initial interest with RG was because of the theological errors which, as you rightly say, have left ripple effects far beyond his list of girls. I submitted a couple articles to that effect. But sadly 'theological error' doesn't seem to rattle people in a culture of 'What you believe is true for you and what I believe is true for me' and so we seem to only find a consensus of concern when we see a universal, inarguable standard betrayed. In the systemic pattern of Gothard's treatment of girls in the program, he betrayed that standard, one which everyone, everywhere believes is wrong (even if we choose, like some in these threads, to believe it hasn't happened in this instance).
DAVID you da' man. Bring it on. The core issue is indeed that Gothard preaches a false gospel. I hope to see the majority of future articles impinging upon this point.
Hi,pvproof,and David!Bless your souls!Your comment on a false gospel is great.A false gospel can spiritually as you know bring error and bad fruit.But can a false gospel produce a false god?Yes.It can put people under demonic oppression,suffering from a demon masquerading as God,religious spirits condemning people to an endless treadmill of dead works,all in the name of a god too harsh and distant to really care.Couple that with Gothard's promoting false,fallen and pagan authority,and you come up with hopeless dehumanization.Never, never,never forget that people committed suicide under this system.A byproduct of darkness, a bypassing of depths of spiritual truths of grace, exchanged for a formulistic,mechanistic deception.Got me for too long.The man has to be stopped.Its whats behind him that concerns me.The darkness.
There is a knot in my stomach as I read all of this. My great uncle was the area coordinator for the Minneapolis seminars. I was given special permission to attend the basic seminar when I was 12 years old--back in the early 1980's when the seminars were filled with eager people who made the commitment to attend. I remember the car pools as we drove 2 hours to the basic seminar. I remember sitting in awe and taking frantic and careful notes, drinking eagerly at this fountain of fascinating information that could solve all of life's conflicts with just a few simple steps. I quoted Bill Gothard to my friends and church leaders--probably much to their annoyance. I begged my parents to join the ATIA program--offering to fill out the forms myself. I was a senior in High School when we were finally accepted into the program and I could not have been more excited and eagerly looked forward to our first ATIA seminar.
At the end of my first year in the program, I found myself at a loss. I had graduated from High School and didn't know where to turn. I decided to apply to Pensacola's music program to get a degree in music ministry. My mom suggested that I call Rick Lambert and tell him of my plans to give him the opportunity to give his counsel. I followed through on this with the result that I was offered a 2-year apprenticeship at Headquarters in the computer department. I was ecstatic. I proudly told my friends and church leadership that I was headed to the infamous HQ in Oak Brook, IL. I packed my Chevette and landed on my feet at 9 Pines under the supervision of Rick Lambert's mother.
My fondest dream come true, I dug into life at HQ. My "apprenticeship" in the computer department involved me getting deposited into an office with a pile of computer manuals and told to start reading. I dove into it, faithfully reading the driest material ever written--not understanding half of it. I took the manuals home and fell asleep reading them. The first month flew by and I was informed that I should go to Mr. Sherman's office for my month review. This was when I learned for the first time that I was on a month-long probation. He began the conversation by informing me that if he were to make the decision that day, I would be sent home. When I asked him why, he explained that he didn't see any initiative. He told me that if I had been serious about my apprenticeship, I would be taking my computer manuals home to read. Shocked, I explained that this was exactly what I had been doing, but didn't realize that anybody would care to know, so I had told nobody what I was doing. He actually looked irritated at not being correct in this assessment. Reluctantly, he said that they would give me another month to prove myself.
Mortified by his rebuff, I went home and told a roommate of this unjust evaluation. My roommate happened to be one of Bill's assistants at the time and he took my story straight to Bill with the justification that I was "sowing seeds of dissension among the brethren." I was called into Bill's office along with Mr. Sherman and confronted for my words. This led to the loss of my apprenticeship and I was moved into the registration department. I was a fast typist, and I spent my days at the keypunch machine entering addresses of registrants, typing in the information from those little green registration cards. 4 months later, I was called into Bill's office and told that it was time for me to go home. I begged to stay, explaining that I knew that there were mounds and mounds of address corrections that needed to be done, which I was happy to do. There was no quarter given. It was announced at staff meeting that I was going home and that was that.
Ever present among my "worst fears" were the continually disappearing students who were sent home for various infractions, sometimes following tearful confessions, sometimes silently disappearing. Now it was my turn to perform the walk of shame. I found myself at home amid friendly inquiries about how it was that I was home after 6 months when I had told everybody that it was going to be 2 years. I was developing a very deep bitterness toward Bill and his ministry.
Frankly, I believe that God was working through all of this to help me lose the ridiculous pedestal on which I had placed Bill Gothard. Now, looking back, I can honestly say that my experience at HQ was the best thing that could have happened to me to break me of my hopeless idolatry. Although it hurt me deeply, it was the most loving way for me to see that I had not only missed the boat, I wasn't even near the sea.
It took years for me to let go of my resentment toward Bill and those within his ministry who rejected me. But I can honestly say that I can now look back on it with good humor and gratefulness. I eventually went back to college, getting first my undergraduate and then masters degrees in music education. I taught for 8 years in the public school system. About 10 years after leaving Headquarters, I came out of the closet, affirming and accepting God's perfection--making me exactly the way He wanted me to be. I was now unwelcome in church, so I took my faith inward. In an ironic and astonishing gesture of God's providence, I was offered a position as music director at a church. I didn't think that a church existed that would even want me and I told them so. They responded with love and acceptance.
10 years later, I am now happily married to the man of my dreams. I am still at this church, which honestly strives to show the love of Jesus to ALL people. We are far from perfect and we often fail, but I know that God is working in our hearts and gradually changing us into new creations. I still remember my surprise when my pastor described repentance, not as a shameful, disgraceful thing which one must engage in so as to avoid hell, but as a beautiful opportunity to turn away from negative and hurtful behaviors and attitudes toward love and light-giving ideals and live a new life.
When I was living at HQ and in the ATIA program, I had striven with all the energy in my life to lead an exemplary and holy life for God. In order to do this, I had to deny myself and the way that I was made, utterly suppressing my heart and my sexuality. Along the way, I became a rigid, judgmental person who could scarcely have a conversation with anybody who was "worldly." I had absolutely no empathy for people who engaged in behaviors like smoking, drinking, swearing, rock music, adultery, etc. When I finally accepted myself exactly as I was made, a whole new world opened up to me. Instead of existing from the head up, I felt like a whole, complete, connected person, and I discovered, to my utter amazement, that for the first time in my life, I could connect not just with people's minds but with their hearts. I was astonished to learn what all of the love songs and poetry were about. I was fascinated by the empathy that filled my heart for the people with whom I shared my life.
Most importantly, I discovered that although I had been rejected by Bill Gothard and many in the church, that God loves me and wants me just the way I am for exactly who I am. I had thought that being gay was the worst and most sinful thing that was possible, but I now have come to believe that being gay is the least of my issues. I had engaged in idolatry--worshipping Bill Gothard, a mere man. Judgement: I thought I was better than everybody else, because I didn't engage in any of those outward behaviors. Most damning: Lack of love. I was the older brother from the story of the prodigal son, who cares only for being rewarded for good behavior and doesn't have the least concern for my own human brothers and sisters.
I was worried that when I accepted my design and sexuality that I was going to slide quickly down the slippery slope to hell and destruction. Instead, I discovered that the so-called "slippery slope" leads to God. Underneath the earthquake that destroyed my faith in Bill Gothard was the love of God, drawing me inexorably to Him.
I don't feel glee at the prospect of the demise of IBLP or Bill Gothard, finally being called on the carpet for his many abuses. I don't want revenge. I only wish for Bill the same love, forgiveness and acceptance that I have found so unexpectedly at the end of my rope. I know that our mutual father is waiting there with arms outstretched. To quote a line from "Children of Eden," "There is no journey gone so far you cannot change direction. No doom is written in the stars." Bill, if you are somehow reading this, I love you and I'm sorry that you are so famous and I am sorry that you have been placed on such a pedestal that now your failures must be broadcast from the housetops. But repentance is not something to be dreaded. It is a redemptive chance for a fresh start and one of the most beautiful gifts of an amazing God. It is such a glorious thing to acknowledge our failures and embrace humility and cease to have to be anybody special, just one of God's many beloved, forgiven children.
Paul, thank you for your honesty. I am thrilled you have at long last found peace and acceptance. I too remember how excited I was to be accepted to work with juvenile delinquents in Indianapolis in 1993. I thought it was odd to have to submit a photo to be accepted and my mom and I laughed over the length my skirts had to be. My parents and church scrimped and saved so I could attend. However, upon my arrival I was quickly disappointed. I was never given the opportunity to work with any delinquents and spent my days in a large conference room listening to seminars and calls to repentance. Teen after teen got up on stage to tearfully confess "sins" such as, "I read a Christian romance novel" or "I wore my skirt too short and I want to apologize for causing any young men to sin with my eye traps." There were long lines at the phones to call home as teens were told to call parents and repent any unconfessed sins. I was angered by what I saw. The pool was being filled in to avoid any lustful situations. I was made to wash the lobby floor on my hands and knees while in a skirt. Where was the training I had been promised?! Bill Gothard got on stage to denounce young men of "their folly." They were caught playing cards and sent home. One teen was caught going down the laundry chute and sent home. A water fight broke out, they were sent home too. I longed to be sent home and inspected the laundry chute, too steep for me! I went home at the end of my time served disillusioned with all the man made rules and broken promises.
Paul,
Thank you so much for your comment. So many of us put Mr. Gothard on a pedestal, and finding that pedestal crumbling have feared for our very salvation. It's only been a few years since I began my journey "out" of ATI/IBLP, but the sentiment you expressed at finding God's love underneath it all perfectly describes what has happened to me. Thanks for putting words to something I had only been able to feel.
Paul,
Thank you for sharing your experience.
God bless you brother.
Paul.
You are the very person that I speak to constantly. See, you are under the faulty impression that homosexuality is not a big deal to God. And those who equate rock music standards to sexual deviance because they are so blinded by these teachings of bondag and legalism are amening your post. Part of the problem begins with not glorifying God as God but glorifying man which leads God to turn you over to vile affections so that to you, it seems "natural." Romans 1. 1 Cor 6:9-11 tells us that it is deception to believe that the unrighteous will inherit the kingdom. All sexual deviance whether it is pedophilia, bestiality, fornication, adultery, or homosexuality will keep you from heaven as well as covetousness, idolatry, lying, drunkenness, and reviling. God is very specific about the things He hates and you can be set free of sin apart from the law. Standards cannot accomplish this. You need to repent and be free of this. God will judge both you and Bill to hell at the end of the day. I have to reject you and judge you because you are calling yourself a brother and living in flagrant sin. That is the clear admonition of Scripture in 1 Cor 5.
Please look at this man's post. He exemplifies what I have been trying to show you people. He is getting sympathy here from people judging Bill over sin. The clear conclusion that people have drawn is that we are all doing something diabolical behind closed doors. No, we aren't because the Holy Spirit delivered me from an obsession with sin over 30 years ago and made me something new. My past sin was forgiven, my conscience was clear, I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and I was set free without the law. This is available to anyone.
Those who deny this power are ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 2 Timothy 3.
Vera,
I've read Paul's comment, and there is a whole lot more to it than his homosexuality. Maybe you missed the other stuff. Second, I read the replies, the first agrees with the problem of man made rules, the second agrees with the wrong of idolizing a man, and the third is thankfulness and a generic blessing. I see no mention in the replies of Paul's sexual orientation, yet your comment alone is full of reviling, to him, and those you have falsely accused of showing him "sympathy."
Paul's sin, my sin, your sin, has little if anything to do with Gothard and his calculated behavior. Yet you attempt to discount all of Bill's heinous acts because this comment came from the mouth of a homosexual man? That's crazy. In essence you are saying to 34 sexually assaulted women, and countless other spiritually abused children (now adults), "I dont care what you have to say, or how you were hurt because you are sinners, this really is your fault, and this website is crap because it sympathizes with sinners..."
Maybe people dont listen to you because you do not represent Jesus in the way you think you do. Maybe the part of Jesus looking down with Love and Mercy ALSO, is part of the bible you haven't gotten to yet. Maybe you could be more effective in your encouragement (I'm giving the benefit of the doubt) if you first sought to understand (rather than revile) and then to encourage. And maybe people would be open to your words if you didn't first ignore all of theirs. Just a thought...
The problem is that your understanding of who God is is flawed by legalism. You are under the faulty belief that since sin must include rock music, a particular style of dress, watching tv, watching movies, participating in or watching sports, all anger, making your own decision, temptation and human perfection that since there is no way to do that, we all must be sinning daily. Yet, Jesus was angry, tempted, made His own decisions at 12, and kept the spirit of the law. His commandments are really based on love. It's just that we would not realize this with sexual deviance. Plus, the American definition of love and what God hates is not consistent with the lives of the first believers. It would seem that the only thing people here are interested in is getting Bill to acknowledge his perversion with girls as his particular brand of daily sin. Thus there is no difference between Bill's daily sin or Paul's daily sin since we are all seeking God in our lives and will get there somehow in our sin. The Calvinist belief that imputed righteousness is God looking at us through the lens of Jesus' righteousness whilst we practice everything He hates is a lie. Revelation 2 & 3 clearly shows us that Jesus sees the sins of His church and warns one of them that if they don't repent, He is going to blot their names out of the book of life. All I am asking you to do is to examine these passages of Scripture in light or what you are saying. It is similar to science. We come up with a theory. In this case the theory is that Paul is ok with God as long as he is seeking him. If Paul died tonight, would God let him into heaven based on your theory? Scripture clearly says no. Read 1 Cor. 6:9-11, Galatians 5 and Romans 1. I love Paul. I want to see him free of this sin and he can be in Jesus who came to set us free. In order to get the sin out of his eye, we have to identify that it needs to come out and it does. I am a baby nurse and I see children die. People die every day young and old. The only important thing is meeting Jesus with a "welcome good and faithful servant." I am not going to stand before Him having my own righteousness which is by either Moses' law or Bill's laws but a righteousness by faith apart from the law. Phil 3. It is not hate to declare homosexuality, fornication, adultery, pedophilia, bestiality, and personal lust as sin that will get you thrown into hell because God declares that, not Vera. I have been freed from sin by grace through faith and so can you.
Vera, you're confused. But as you are happy in that, and it's not really the topic of the article today, I say we let go and let God.
"Vera, you're confused." Phillip, you have some one-liners in here that just about put me on the floor. But this one reminded me of a passion rehearsal where the man playing the part of "Pilate" had forgotten his reading glasses. As they read through the script for the first time, Pilate's wife, Claudia, makes her entrance, and in a moment of disastrous eyesight fail, Pilate announced to his wife: "Claudia my dear, you are overweight."
*beat*
"overwrought."
Dear Lovely Dove, Susanna, Kevin, Phillip, Joe & Hannah,
I have read each of the replies to my post and I wanted to take some time to acknowledge the brotherly/sisterly love, thoughtfulness and encouragement that your responses so beautifully illustrate. What I am reading reaffirms what I already believe: Love truly melts away all defenses. The people who have touched my life and influenced me for good have one thing in common: They love me unconditionally. They roll up their sleeves and become part of my life. Their words matter deeply to me. Love is the only thing against which I have no defense. Your stories and words touch me right where I live--Thank You!
Vera, you lost my interest as soon as you said that I am "under the faulty impression" and then proceeded to speak for God. I will not become entangled in an argument of Job proportions regarding my "sexual deviance." I will not quote Scripture back at you. God is my witness, my judge, and if need be, my defender, and I depend on and utterly trust in His plan and design for my life as well as His Love and Grace. If you have an issue with the way God made me, please take it up with Her. NOBODY comes between me and God. Not Bill Gothard, and certainly not you. I believe that God is at work in my life--not convicting me for having romantic love for another man, but convicting me that my love is not selfless the way Christ loved and gave Himself for us. It's not that I love another man, but that I don't love him enough.
My points are simple: #1. Yes, Bill has done much damage to many of us--both spiritually and emotionally, I affirm this from my own experience and see the need for it to stop. #2. We are all guilty under the law and some humility is in order. The temptation to self-righteous indignation and revenge is a very real and grave danger to each of us. #3. When we tell our stories, we should pave the way for the hearing with love. It is one of the hallmarks of God's Children--our love for each other and our willingness to open the door to forgiveness, redemption and grace.
Paul, thanks for your transparency and honesty.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, Paul. I assume that if you were ever to see things differenly on this issue, it probably isn't going to be brought about by someone arguing with you on a blog?
Honestly, folks, while I would disagree with Paul, I don't think I've earned the right to tell him so on a blog. I think something that personal needs to be done by God, or a friend the he knows loves him unconditionally.
Daniel, Looks like I can't reply directly to your question/comment because of how many levels deep it is. But I just wanted to affirm your observation.
First of all, I have made vows to my husband that I intend to honor for as long as we both shall live.
Second, I have spent more than 25 years questing for the answers regarding who I am and what to do about it. I have had endless long discussion sessions with friends and relatives as well as spiritual leaders, pastors and mental health professionals. I have been anointed with oil and I have fasted and prayed. I have lain awake long nights with my stomach in knots, begging for God's intervention in my life. I have heard more opinions and theories than I care to shake a stick at. I have followed Bill's steps to moral freedom in both letter and spirit. You are absolutely right in suggesting that a post from a random person telling me that I am wrong and going to hell, using Scripture (I guarantee, I know these Scriptures better than just about anybody) to justify such gross audacity is not going to do anything except rouse my anger at the sheer arrogance and egocentrism.
I appreciate your statement that you disagree with me and I respect your right to the beliefs that you hold. I completely agree with you that it is a fundamental truth in life that my father taught me when I was very young: We must all earn the right to be heard.
Incidentally, Daniel is one of my all time favorite Biblical characters. You are so lucky to have been given such a name!
Paul,
It sounds like you have been through a lot of pain in your journey. I clicked on your profile name, because I though I recognized your name from days of yore. ALERT maybe?
Anyway, I'm kind of jealous of where you live! One of the most beautiful places on earth, IMO.
Daniel
Daniel, my younger brother was in and now works for ALERT (Steven Dankers). My sister (Lisa Dankers-Rode) also worked at ALERT. Even one of my older brothers, (Lewis Dankers) was at ALERT for a short time. I never was in ALERT but I worked at Headquarters for 6 months. I have wanted to live in the mountains ever since I was a little boy and my mom was telling me that mountains are such great majestic creations that photos don't even give them full justice. She was right. I never grow tired of seeing them, I love breathing the crisp mountain air, I love the stars, the hot springs, the camping, skiing and I love that bluer than blue Colorado sky. I don't know you, but if you ever come out for a visit, I hope you will stop by. Best to you!
Well done Paul. I'm impressed that after all of the judgement you have faced in your life that you are still willing to believe in a god at all. I'm sure there were many a day when you simply wanted to give it all up, and it's impressive that you are able to give god the benefit of the doubt and not be angry at him, but choose to see those that misrepresent him as the problem. You seem like a good dude, and you and your husband have a long and enjoyable life together.
Paul,
I know nothing of what it is to be gay. I can't speak to that part of your story.
Everything else you say, really resonates. I, for one, would like to say, thank you for speaking grace.
Paul, what a beautiful story and sentiment! Thank you for sharing!
Paul, I am so sorry to hear of your experiences at HQ. I never knew. You really never know what people around you are facing, do you? Thank you for sharing your heart. The beautiful truths of repentace and God's grace that you shared both bring me to tears and give me cause for joy! So glad to have reconnected with you!
Lisa, it's no surprise that you didn't know--after all, we weren't allowed to talk, right?!!! These days it is old news and I hadn't even thought about it in years until I saw some of these articles re-posted to Facebook. The good news is that people are comparing stories and the lies are being dispelled and old friends are reconnecting--all of which bring such happiness and freedom! It's good to be back in touch!
(I'm not the David from a previous comment, above.)
I'd always heard it was Bill Gothard's brother who had the sexual affair and was forced to leave the ministry.
So you are saying it was actually Bill the whole time?
I don't find that in the Gracenote, David, and I don't think RG is inferring that Bill had the affair instead of Steve Gothard. Which part are you referencing?
David, i'm wondering the same thing. Hopefully someone can clarify this question for us.
His brother had multiple affairs. BG knew about it and looked the other way until forced to deal with it. BG never had an affair in the strictest sense rather he had a very long line of girls and young women who he groomed in an highly innapropriate and sexual manner. It can most definitely be called sexual abuse. You can read stories from Meg, Lizzie and Annette on this site. Please continue reading this site in the days to come as I think RG has more documented information about this that will be shared.
"Never had an affair in the strictest sense" as in he never actually inserted Tab A into Slot B so it wasn't really adultery?
It was sexual abuse, which covers a wide range of acts.
If you have not already, I would suggest you consider contacting Boz Tchividjian and his team at GRACE. They have a great record in dealing with abuse issues and the church. They may be of service to you in pursuing the correct avenue should the call to repentance fall upon deaf ears.
And to think that I used to envy those beautiful girls who seemed to garner Mr. Gothard's special attention and favor.
Many years ago, my old D&D dungeonmaster commented "The reason most Cults get is so the Cult Leader can (1) get rich; (2) get laid; or (3) both.
I have often wondered how Bill could turn his back after I told him of the abuse going on in my home as a child/teen & it's all making sense! I got cold chills reading this & pray that finally he will be exposed & those that have blindly followed him for so many years will open their eyes to the truth!
I have personally told Bill of abuse in two different situations and he has both times told me that the victim was to blame.
Yes, thank you for bringing this up Jonathan, there are several victims of sexual abuse who have gone to Bill for help. But he blamed them. In some instances they were turned back over to the abuser.
Dani,
I so pray that this will happen. I believe that finally he will be widely exposed and we will see an end to the victims of abuse, both spiritual and physical. When I read of the families where there was sexual abuse going on and it was allowed to continue for years, due to Gothard's teachings on how to handle it, it makes me sick.
Thank you Recovering Grace! Thank you for all of your long hours and commitment. Thank you for having a heart for your younger brothers and sisters in Christ and for refusing to look the other way and let the abuse continue.
This feels monumental.
Thank you, Recovering Grace, for the way you are handling the information you've been entrusted with and your handling of interactions with IBLP. There are so many who appreciate the work you are doing here. Ultimately, the thousands influenced by the teachings of Mr. Gothard are but a blip on the radar of eternity, but I serve a God who cares about blips. I do hope that Mr. Gothard genuinely repents and finds the truth (even the true Gospel if he's believed his own teachings instead of the teachings of Christ). I can't help but feel that this is an historical turning point for many people that I love and turning points tend to be exciting for me. This one comes with the excitement of hope that the damage will STOP, and grieving over the damage done.
I have noted several former ATI parents on RG, and I am so grateful their input and perspective. I can't help but feel though, that this is mostly a movement of the former students. I pray that more parents will be moved to re-examine not only Mr. Gothard, but also their personal decisions which put sons and daughters in the positions highlighted here. If you are a parent reading this who has not done so, I beg you not to let pride keep you from admitting mistakes. If not for the sake of your children, do it for the sake of your grandchildren. The teachings of IBLP are not worth diminishing the role you could play in the future of your family.
Additionally, I pray that former leaders in IBLP (you know who you are) would be emboldened to speak up and defend those who should have been defended in the beginning. Please, if you knew and you were driven away, don't miss this opportunity to make good on what you should have done back then. Your voice will be heard this time.
That is so very sad to hear, and I think you are doing the right thing. God bless you.
I think that the comments made by "David" above (his concern about the false gospel of Gothardism) are being overlooked here.
Even if Gothard were to acknowledge his sins, even if he agreed to permanently step down from IBLP and its affiliates and to never set foot on its properties again (and even to agree to do so by a valid, binding contractual document), even if the IBLP Board resigned en masse and a new board completely cleaned house of anyone and everyone who even had as remote a sin as getting preferential treatment from Gothard while others who did far less were ostracized (and yes, even if that includes people named Sammons or Duggar), the major problem still remains: Gothard's teachings are contrary to Scripture. PERIOD.
You cannot separate the teachings of IBLP et al from Gothard any more than you can separate the teachings of Scientology from L. Ron Hubbard. No matter who takes over, s/he will still be teaching error. The Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses change leaders from time to time but the core teachings of Smith/Young and Russell/Rutherford remain.
Recovering Grace's request, although sincere, doesn't go to the root of the problem. Only the permanent closure of IBLP and its affiliates will solve the problem once and for all.
And what US law is going to allow that? The US constitution allows for the free practice of religion without govt interference. I assume we can't stop a religion because of error, as they all have some to lots depending on which it is. The errors in Christianity are the misinterpretations, additions and/or stuff left out by the people themselves. Probably the only thing courts will recognize are their own laws that have been broken, i.e. child molesting and misuse/unpaid taxes of funds.
Nobody suggested that a court of law would close ATI. Its jurisdiction is the law of the land. However, the right thing to happen is for ATI to close. This could come about because the people involved repent, or because the followers of ATI become educated and leave. It is unlikely to ever happen - that doesn't change the fact that it is the right thing to happen.
Agreed. Vision Forum recently closed (or is in the process of closing). Their board decided that disbanding was the wisest course of action given what came to light.
I pray the IBLP board might follow suit as the matters described above are brought to light.
Mark,
I see your point and totally agree that his teachings are false and have been very vocal about this with all of my homeschool friends for the past couple years. I could write a book on how many areas of his teachings that I find false and harmful. Forcing Gothard to resign based on the sexual abuse is kind of like getting Al Capone on tax evasion. Not in any way to minimize the sexual abuse charges, but the scale of the damage done with the false teachings is enormous- how many received them? I'm not sure the number that went deep and really took it in, but millions have been through the seminars and we are probably talking about tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands that went pretty deep.
The problem I have encountered is that the theological debate, while crystal clear in my mind, can be challenging to convince others of, particularly if they are in the system and/or if they aren't very good at discerning the soundness of scriptural teachings. A lot of people just can't see that it is a works based grace that he is teaching, no matter how many times you go over Gothard's grace verses God's free gift or that faith is not visualizing what God intends to do.
But, the sexual abuse is much more black and white, something that just about everyone can see as horrible and hypocritical, regardless of theological discernment abilities.
The false teachings by themselves are absolutely reason enough for him to step down and dismantle ATI and IBLP. Also, The sexual abuse alone is absolutely reason enough for Gothard to resign. I believe as this progresses and momentum builds, his damaging false teachings will get more attention and scrutiny. If a leader is shown to be a complete hypocrite, living a life diametrically opposed to his teachings, the natural step that flows from that is to reexamine everything the man put out there. This fruit, that so many have been eating, is coming from a tree that is rotten to the core- time to examine the fruit a little closer and hopefully see that it is, in fact, toxic.
I also believe that ATI and IBLP can not survive without their charismatic leader. He is the one that they exalt, and I just don't see the families that I know continuing their participation without him there.
Good points, Kevin! I think the same thing...if BG steps down I think the ministry will die off...it's been sort of dying a slow death for years now anyway.
Gothard already "confessed" to "moral failure" once. He even "stepped down" from leadership. How much good did that do?
Even if he does, how do we know that his departure will end IBLP? Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, and L. Ron Hubbard are all long dead, yet their organizations continue, stronger than ever. If anything, new and younger leadership may make IBLP more appealing to a younger crowd.
RG is right in calling for Gothard to step down. But his departure would only cure one problem (the sexual abuse) and maybe part of another (the hypocrisy in how insiders are treated v. outsiders). But the SPIRITUAL ABUSE that comes with hyper-legalism will be as rampant as ever. Unless Gothard confesses to ALL his errors, and agrees to shut down IBLP, we'll be here 10-20 years from now reporting on how the new leadership hasn't changed anything.
I agree with you that the false teachings are the biggest problem, but I disagree that the closing and disbanding of the ministry will solve the problem. Doug Phillips has stepped down and Vision Forum has closed it's doors, but the false teachings they promoted still run rampant. And personally, I don't really think Doug is going away for good. He still has many supporters who don't really think he did anything wrong. But even worse, they still believe in the system that he taught. That is the biggest tragedy to me. I pray that God will make truth be known to all.
I cannot imagine the hours of prayer, work, anguish, and seeking wisdom that have taken place behind the scenes to bring the RG team to this point. Thank you for having the courage to stand up for what is right. I think of the verse about Esther in the Bible being used of God "for such a time as this." And I believe that God is using the RG team "for such a time as this." To expose the abuse and harassment that has gone on for years. To seek to protect those now serving at HQ or who may serve there in the future. May God grant you strength and wisdom for the days ahead. There will be opposition from those who are strongly involved in the IBLP ministry. May we extend grace to them while pressing forward in doing the right thing. We need to remember that many of us at some point in time would have done the same thing and defended Bill and IBLP. Once I finish this, I will be adding this matter to my prayer list and be praying in the days ahead.
My family joined ATI when I was probably about ten. I remember being excited for the oppertunities ahead and I honestly have amazing memories of Godly ministries that were formed from this group. I also remember as I served in Indiana, Taiwan and in knashville living in fear of being reproached constantly. If you were a girl in the ministry you can probably relate to what I'm speaking about, humiliation and your self worth being crushed at a tender time in life. As I read stories of people joining together hoping that their voices are heard I want to remind everyone that our Heavenly Father hears and restores if we are wiling. Mr. Gothard is in the most capable hands, i do however pray that through this honest call for repentance will reach his heart before more lives are hurt. Thank you Recovering Grace Ministry for being an amazing example following the scripture in how to properly handle this case.
How interesting to see comments posted by people that I worked with over the year and to hear them voicing the same things that I have said for a long time. I just found this site by a link that was shared on Facebook and haven't been able to look at all of it yet, but thank you for exposing Gothard for the legalistic cult leader that he is. I was involved in the program for many years and was so proud of the things that I was doing. It wasn't until years later and after I had been away from the program that I could look back and see how judgemental it had made me. As a parent, I wouldn't let my kids within 100 yards of anything having to do with Bill Gothard or the ATIA program.
Thank you for grace, but also thank you for giving us truth. Yikes.
Spiritual elitism and exclusiveness are the "wolf" which has ravaged tens of thousands of true sheep who still yet will not give up a hope for their affinity to that covering of a snow white fleece of high moral ideals.
History teaches us that all true movements of God are wildly inclusive of every low estate. All moral victory then proceeds from the feeling of acceptance and inclusion (the true operational definition of Grace.)
History and scripture also teach that all Cults are perpetuated by elitism and exclusivity. "They zealously affect you, but not well. They then exclude you so that you might affect them." This verse from Galatians describes the wolves in sheep clothing who had come in to ravage the true sheep, just as Mr. Gothard has done.
ATI ers were told point blank that we were the "green beret" of today's Christianity. We were the Elite. In the ATI publication, it was described as God's punishment if a person was reduced to "hugging toilets". ATI is elitist, whereas every movement of God in the past has been inclusive of and even glorifying of honest manual labor.
Those of us who started in IBYC back in 1968 were frankly astonished that Bill Gothard could accuse someone who did not have a captivating smile of spiritual terpituity when we remembered the incredibly sour appearance of his own mother and father. He grins like a mule eating briers because he is full of himself. The only cure for this would be marriage, not cessation of ministry. A good woman and some children of his own would bring him down to earth, and this my friend is why God saw that it was not good for man to be alone. He would no longer have the energy to zealously affect others and then exclude them so that they might affect him. In other words, he would no longer be a cult leader.
Tares produce other tares which only "look good", while true wheat produces sustenance for the masses. Goats forage around the fence lines looking for a chance to "butt" both sheep and shepherds. Dogs go about the city of God "marking" and then "barking" at everything and everyone who come near their turf. Time for Recovering Grace to call out the dog catcher, separate the goat, isolate the tares. Time for those ravaged by the wolf to pull off the deceptive fleece of high moral ideals which conceals the ravenous nature of a cult leader and his followers.
A mule eating briers? That one just put me over the edge. Thank you for that image. Funniest thing I've heard all day! Still chuckling!
Bruce,
"Tares produce Tares" This is an excellent description of the "fruit" of IBLP/ ATI.
Thanks
Bruce this is a very cogent description of this situation. I like how you think!
History and scripture also teach that all Cults are perpetuated by elitism and exclusivity.
What Lewis called "The Lure of the Inner Ring."
And the essence of Gnosticism (Gnostic = "He Who KNOWS Things"), the Speshul Sekrit Knowledge known only to a Privileged Spiritual Few, hidden away (Occult = "hidden") from the unwashed mass of sheeple.
Is there anything that the pharisees did (with the obvious exception of physically dragging Christ to the romans) that Gothard has not done? Christ did not pull his punches when arguing with the pharisees.
Thank You RG for showing the world what this man really is, just try not to end up with a horse head in your beds.
[…] Introduction […]
I have only watched Gothard and ATI from a distance, since the 70's. Was never quite comfortable with the teachings, confirmed as I watched them play out in the lives of friends, also involving sexual abuse by the male in power. Is there a spiritual thread here? I applaud the very gracious, loving, and thoughtful, yet firm way you are handling this issue. You do have a responsibility to share this with the broader Church/church. But this is not only about the Church --we live in a society and governmental system that needs to be respected and included. Without quoting scripture, I cannot say strong enough -- legal action MUST be taken.
There is no doubt that there is a large number of people here who have various reasons to hate Bill Gothard. To see Him fall, all of us that appreciate him deal with the grief of his public humiliation, end of the ministry, would be seen as fulfillment of a lifelong dream . . . for many (not necessarily all). Now I see that what I suspect is the LA Times "archive" is about to be released, plus new information . . . Slowly, to inflict as much damage as possible.
I may be wrong, but I suspect that the crux of the scandalous events are known to me. If so, we are still left with a man making a number of emotional attachments in the early days to willing, marriageable young women . . . Passions driving him to spend alone time with them "while working" way closer than would be appropriate. Things he would condemn in others. Yet without ever going over the boundary into sexual contact. Things that he resigned over back in the 80's with a confession of “defrauding”. When we are done we will be right back where we are today . . . Perhaps with shuttered doors, because an old man can't take it any more?
There will be consequences . . . there always are. He is a shepherd, protecting a flock. People who trust him, and for whom his program, principles have formed a basis for their marriage and family. Satan may get some of them . . . he is always on the hunt. Does Jesus care? Oh, I know He cares.
I hope folks who are responsible know what they are doing. I will trot out my Moses story again . . . In his 80s or later -probably over 100 - Moses married a black woman (Numbers 21). Whatever it was, it was scandalous. Maybe it was inappropriate, given his role and position. People were publicly condemning him, spearheaded by his siblings. God suddenly spoke - they assumed He was happy with what they were doing to "help" Him and protect the Lord's reputation and people. What He said - basically - is that He really liked Moses . . . And was really angry that they had slandered him, told the truth, mind you. Proceeded to publicly discipline Miriam with leprosy. He NEVER addressed the scandal.
God hasn't spoken yet - either by spanking Bill Gothard or doing something else. He is real, He has opinions, He gets really angry with us at times. There are many who read this websites who can point to life changing blessings that have come to them from God through Bill Gothard. I am one of them . . . Many far more dramatically than I. Miracles, really. Unless he lied - and I keep asking for comments - there are practical miracles associated with the ministry . . . Amazing financial miracles . . . Healing . . . Demonic manifestations that were healed . . . Stories we have all heard of a living God doing things only He can do.
IF any of that is true, God has singularly focused on IBLP. He is around. Did He call this website to do His work in His way? I don't know . . . There is much permitted here that troubles me greatly, which I am fairly sure He did not command. "Grace" whose primary goal seems to be to make Bill pay for things He has done to hurt many people.
I hope you know what you are doing. I am tired. I think it is wrong. I guess time and eternity will tell.
From Matthew 7
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
I'm not saying this is what God will say to Bill, Alfred...That is for God to judge. I am however pointing out that Jesus himself cautions us that not everyone who demonstrates financial and spiritual miracles is indeed who they say they are.
I think many prayers are going up on both sides of this discussion asking for wisdom and guidance, and for peace in the pursuit. I am, and I hope everyone is.
The issue for me comes down to abuse. I cant get around people in a power imbalance being abusive. Either by forced fasts, manipulation of scripture, pressure of being reviled once they get sent home, or young women being forced to sort out whether or not those things that seem unnatural to their god-given conscience are indeed wrong, or simply something in their head. It is not ok! I speculate that if your own daughters in your photo from your linked site had these same experiences with Bill that you would be so understanding and lenient with him. At least I very much hope not. I speculate that if your sons had suffered force fasts and prayer rooms and wrong punishments, that you would have dismissed it so quickly. I pray that you would not. I would not tolerate abuse of my two sons because I love them and am called to protect them.
The fact that we see evidence that continues well beyond the 80's scandal, into the 90s (after the repentance) is telling. The fact that Bill is non-responsive is telling. If only 10 percent of these stories are true it is enough for any reasonable human to stop and see the importance of setting it right.
A few things, Alfred:
1. What do you believe the goal of this post was?
2. What makes Bill Gothard a good shepherd?
3. What is your opinion of Recovering Grace?
Recovering Grace can only look to fruits of what has already been done, and by those fruits of Bill Gothard, they know him and what he has done. From theological errors to harassment of the sexual sort- there is plenty of fruit that reveals that God's word has been twisted and people have been trampled over and harmed.
IBLP may be a case of God's rain falling on the just and unjust. God is a long suffering God who shows grace and offers second chances. There are healings, financial prospering, and other turnarounds in various groups that don't use the Bible at all. While the glory may go to "God"- they misapply and misunderstand Scripture. God has been patient with IBLP, hasn't he?
Meg and the other girls who worked closely with Bill, and countless others who share their stories are the real voices. Recovering Grace is just the megaphone. And the Bible did say wrongdoings will be shouted from the rooftops.
Alfred,
I've been following the comment threads across the "Sacred Grooming" articles and am just as befuddled as everyone else who's responded to you. But if your comment here is any indication, I think I can understand where you're coming from. I don't agree with you, but I can understand. You point out that much good has been accomplished through the IBLP program. And to an extent, you're right. Because while I certainly can't speak for God, I know that there is always going to be some opportunity for Him to work within our flawed, manmade efforts to please Him or act in His name because He is bigger than those efforts. That does not, however, mean that we should stand idly by when someone acts in Christ's name but hurts, belittles, and oppresses others at the same time with unbiblical conduct and an institution that provides the groundwork for spiritual abuse. You and I will probably disagree on that, but let's lay that aside and focus on what you brought up.
You mention that God "hasn't spoken yet" by "spanking" Gothard, so by your logic, God must find the work of IBLP acceptable. This is fallacious. Obviously, there is much moral wrong continually happening in the world that grieves God. Does this mean that these actions must be acceptable to Him? Of course not. Let's look at the impoverished among whom God has been able to work around the world - people who are materially poor but rich in Christ. Does this mean that because they've found Christ in their circumstances, those circumstances are ideal and that they're equipped to spread the Gospel - so we should forget about them? Of course not.
No matter how you try to work around it, Alfred, there are countless believers out there who have been able to find freedom in Christ outside of Gothard and IBLP. And there are countless believers who have been through IBLP who have been battered, beaten, and shattered under a rigid system of extra-biblical restrictions and spiritual abuse. Again, I can't speak for God, but I can only guess that what those people have suffered saddens Him greatly. I understand that hasn't been your experience. But these aren't people who are just "misusing" the IBLP material. They are the victims here, and you are trivializing everything that they've been through with your responses. And you continue to do so.
I'm not going to argue with you about just how much Gothard has deliberately cast aside his own rules in his personal conduct, because everyone else has done such a brilliant job of pointing out the obvious hypocrisy that you continue to dismiss. But I will address your comment about people wanting to bring Gothard down. If these articles are any indication, I don't believe that Recovering Grace's motive in all of this is to "destroy" Gothard. It's to prevent more people from suffering and to address his conduct in the most Biblical way possible within the boundaries of our legal system. Where is your concern for those people, Alfred? You defend Gothard but could expend all of this energy dedicating your time to being concerned for the grieving, the broken, and the abused. I have no doubt that there are people here who feel as you describe. They carry a lot of pain and are still working through it, some for decades. You don't get to marginalize them by saying that they're "bitter." You can't possibly know what they're experiencing. For them, this community is meant to be a place where they can find healing and support, not more abuse from people questioning their motives, flaunting their spiritual superiority, and arguing with them. Can you at least think about that before you dissect them and their stories?
Alfred,
In his pride, Gothard has stoned, reviled and run off many "Nathan's" and "Elijah's" that God has sent to him over the years to warn him of error in both his teaching and behavior. At some point God stops sending Prophets, and starts sending Judgment. The Old Testament, of which Gothard spends a lot of time teaching from, is full of these examples.
You said "Now I see that what I suspect is the LA Times "archive" is about to be released, plus new information.." I'm sure part of what we will see is evidence of God sending these Prophets to Gothard, and Gothard's stoning and rejecting them.
I understand your struggle with the possibility that what is happening here is from God, and your assertion that there is some vengeful motive behind this information release. It is hard for a Follower of Gothard to see that the purpose might actually be Biblical Accountability of a brother who is not right with God. I get that, and if the motives of this movement are not of God, then I'm sure they will not be successful, and if they are, then it's dangerous to get in the way.
I also understand the impact Gothard's "Fall" will have on countless families. This actually is a good illustration of i the problem. Too Many have "Put their Faith" in Gothard, when they should have been putting their faith in Jesus. I pray that whatever the outcome of this series, "Gothardites", of which I was one for many many years, will be able to understand the the all sufficiency of Jesus Christ, and the danger of putting their trust in a Man.
I'll pray for you and your family Alfred. I understand why this is so difficult to accept. It took me years to come to grips with the fact that the man I once put on such a pedestal, was in fact not worthy of that position.
Alfred, I would like to understand a little more where you are coming from. Does Gothard know that you frequent this website? Does he approve of you spending time here? Has Gothard or anyone associated with him in any way asked you to monitor this site or leave posts? Are you in any way being compensated financially for frequenting here? Are you mainly here for yourself, or to try to influence people that are on the fence?
Alfred: "I hope you know what you are doing. I am tired. I think it is wrong. I guess time and eternity will tell."
Why do you read this site at all if it has such a negative effect on you?
The fact that you can't (or won't) stay away is intriguing to me.
- Why don't you just ignore this entire website?
- Why is it up to you to defend Gothard?
- Do you hang around hoping that one day you'll discover a valid reason for leaving IBLP/ATI/Gothard?
I am very fascinated by your level of interest in this... but I would encourage you if you're growing weary to please take care of your health... nothing is so important as to run yourself weary. Stay well!!
>When we are done we will be right back where we are today . . .
No, Alfred. You will be right back where you are today, most likely, because you refuse to wake up and accept what is going on here. But, hopefully, when we are done, other parents who were considering implementing these teachings in their families will step away. Maybe those who are caught up in this damaging system will have the courage to step away and to really seek God for who He is. And maybe those who have been abused and hurt will find that they are not alone, and will be set upon the path to healing. That is the goal here. Not destruction. Deliverance.
Alfred, wrong--plain wrong.
It is both untrue and unreasonable to say that people hate Gothard without a cause. As for me, I hate his false teachings and actions. He is responsible for both.
Maybe some hate Gothard, but most of us would be happy to see him come to repentence and see restoration! He simply refuses to do so. He needs to be willing to accept less than ideal terms for his restoration. He cannot choose his own terms of restoration, and he will not if he is indeed of humble heart.
At least at that point, it might become possible to deal with his teachings within the bounds of church authority. That would be satisfactory since no resolution has occurred within the bounds of IBLP to date.
As far as Moses--wow...just wow. You seem to have an interesting twist on that portion of Scripture. You are very creative. God did NOT "overlook" any "scandal" there as you suppose--there WAS NOT a SCANDAL or moral failure or sexual sin--whatever you wish to label it. People were trying to undermine and overthrow God's appointed leadership. God stood up and defended Moses against them.
We are not given authoritative license to make applications outside of the bounds of the actual text. It is erroneous to do so.
I see no evidence that Bill Gothard was appointed by God over the church. Let's rightly divide the Word of truth. Bill Gothard's teachings have been widely divisive in the church. God has spoken clearly regarding this thing that He hates. There is biblical precedent for dealing with this problem. The precedent is to mark him and publicly expel him from the church until he repents.
Don't cut the nerve when pain is felt--it's simply the messenger telling you that there is a problem in the body that needs attention in order for healing to occur.
Alfred,
I do believe that you are a sincere person who desires to know God. I speak to some of your points from that assumption. Surely you must know that in many cults there are signs, wonders, and other things that seem to be God's affirmation of what they are doing. I was in a Christianized cult once. I was healed immediately and miraculously, not of some unseen illness, but of a hand that had been mangled and almost severed a hour before -- it happened right in front of everyone when the ministered prayed. Yet all that they taught was a lie. What is my explanation? God loves us enough to overlook where we are and see where He wants to take us.
I have also heard and witnessed financial miracles of money coming in just in time in the exact amount -- from some of the worst heretics in ministry. I've seen instances where property and money was simply given to ministry out of the blue at exactly the right time. They claim this is proof that God is with them. Yet many of the same teach heresy.
You can also find thousands of people under false teaching who will claim that that teaching changed them for the better. But you know, fruit inspection is quite subjective. A legalist will see good fruit if his friend becomes a legalist. A JW once pointed to the changed lives in that cult as proof that it was of God. An atheist thinks someone who renounces God has seen the light. My point is, and this is somewhat self-evident -- those who are deceived don't know it. They will never know it until they encounter the Light Himself.
I don't hate the man Bill Gothard. I've never met him -- but went to the Basic 13 times, and the advanced 5 times. Read all the literature. I do hate the terrible damage that his teachings have done. I've seen it first hand. He does not teach the Truth. He teaches the very definition of the false gospel Paul wrote against in Galatians.
Christianity is not a religious system filled with laws, rules, with a how-to list. Christianity is CHRIST IN US, the hope of glory. Paul's travail was that Christ be formed in us. This was his answer to the Galatians. I'm sure that the Galatians thought they were living for God because they found all the right rules. I'm sure that they were very moral and upright people. Law always mandates this. But Paul said they were under another gospel. He said Christ was of no effect for them. They didn't know that -- because he told them they were, "bewitched," or, "mesorized," by their false gospel. What I'm saying to you is that what Bill Gothard teaches is another gospel -- and those under it are so deceived and blinded that that they are convinced they have IT. They don't have IT. What they need is HIM. Ok, I won't preach anymore.
And as far as all of the charges of immoral or inappropriate behavior -- this is sad and horrible in any case -- and it would be that if any of us were guilty of the same. But in the end, even if Gothard came clean about all of this, there are still his teachings. And that is the problem.
I hope that you will take under consideration what I am saying. You have been sold a bill of goods. As Paul said, "Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creature." Please see the Truth in Christ.
Alfred, what the... what exactly is wrong with this website? What do you mean "I hope you all know what you are doing"? What on earth makes you think this is a legitimate ministry? What makes you think Bill Gothard and his ministry are in any way working for the good? It's quite shocking, having been away from ATIA for almost 20 years, that anyone could believe this stuff. It's not slander, it's not ungracious, it's not wrong to call out injustice, just because the person in question happens to call himself a christian. For christians, he's a false prophet. For those less religiously inclined, he's an idiot that has caused more pain and suffering for more lives than can be counted. For every person that comments on here about how their lives were negatively affected by him and his ministry, there are 20 readers who agree. For each of those 20 readers that agree, there are hundreds who haven't heard of this site and deal with their loss and pain internally. The point is, there are thousands, tens of thousands, of individuals and families that have been hurt by him, and you defend him. Crazy.
For those whose eyes are opened, Alfred's own words condemn Gothard. Alfred says "People who trust him, and for whom his program, principles have formed a basis for their marriage and family. Satan may get some of them . . . " Wow--that says it all right there! Since when are Christian marriages and families supposed to be based on the programs and principles of a man? If Gothard being taken out of the ministry will wreak havoc with the lives of these people and make them open to the attack Satan, than these poor people have been idolizing a man instead of following God.
My heart breaks for all the people caught up in this cult. It must end.
Amen, amen, amen JulieAnne. If their faith is built upon The Rock, when storms come and rain falls, then they will be ok.
"Vengeance is mine saith the Lord". I agree with what RG needs to do but in my own life I have seen God bring justice without me doing a single thing.
Case in point- a black gang came down the road one day with their pit bulls. They were letting the dogs kill every animal in sight. They even let the dogs attack cows at the sale barn. We lost a favorite cat on our front porch. Others' pets were victims. I found out who it was but even the law officials would not let me bring the deed to justice. (found out later the one young man who owned the dog was into drugs.) I went to God with broken heart and heard God say "Do you want me to kill him?" (some would say what kind of God do you serve?) I knew it was a test. I said "No, I want him to come to repentance". In a flash God showed me the 17 year old thug would only live a short nothing life. Seven years later he was riding his 4 wheeler at midnight and someone shot and killed him. (I do not own a gun.) I am sure he was never saved. Did he go to hell because he killed my cat? No, that was a symptom of his lawless godless lifestyle. He ended up where he did because he never met the Lord.
God also replaced that cat a very special kitten and another interesting cat, their stories are too long to tell. We have seen God's grace in that situation and many others. The path that God led me on is one of letting God take care of it. Others must follow what they feel God is leading them to do. I know this situation is about stopping further abuse.
To those who say the "next step" according to Matthew 18 would be to bring up Gothard's offenses before his "pastor" at his "local church":
Gothard, as the head of a large international religious organization that has replaced or superceded the local church for many people under his influence, is not under the authority of any local church or pastor (this is also based on his lack of participation therein).
This is not a perfect analogy but you should get the idea -- Expecting Gothard to be held accountable to a local pastor is like asking the Catholic Pope to be held accountable to a local priest.
The whole point of Matthew 18 is to keep an initial offense private and give someone a chance to change or work on it. However, Gothard's countless gross misdeeds far surpass the initial levels of Matthew 18. Indeed, he has already been held accountable by his own board (this would be the closest thing he is accountable, similar to the Pope and his Cardinals, if you like) and those closest to him in the past, and has chosen to not heed them and continue his behavior and damage.
At this point, it is necessary, a right and good thing, to call out his attention to the universal (global) church at large, and in particular those worldwide, past and present, who have been a part of his ministries.
To those who say the "next step" according to Matthew 18 would be to bring up Gothard's offenses before his "pastor" at his "local church":
Or like Jimmy Swaggart when he got caught, assuming he HAS a "pastor" or a "local church" in the first place (unlikely for a Parachurch Celebrity), what prevents him from just bailing out and starting his own with himself as "his pastor". Like Jimmy Swaggart did when he got caught with that prostie? (Soon as he was actually put under inconvenience/discipline, he bailed and "planted a church". Ted Haggard did much the same except he got caught with a male prostie.)
Alfred wrote:
"I may be wrong, but I suspect that the crux of the scandalous events are known to me. If so, we are still left with a man making a number of emotional attachments in the early days to willing, marriageable young women . . . Passions driving him to spend alone time with them "while working" way closer than would be appropriate."
If the testimonies of RG have been told truthfully, and if Pastor Jones' reported what he saw in Flint correctly, you ARE wrong. These things were NOT done merely in the early days to young, willing, marriageable women. They were done repeatedly to multiple girls and women, many of whom were minors at the time, without parental involvement. There are reports of very inappropriate physical affection going on to young girls, some of them probably 40 to 50 or more years his junior. "Meg" was at least 37 years younger quite some years ago. Away from their parents, at the TCs, without the father or mother being involved, in clear violation of his teachings. Frontal hugging, physical affection under blankets, multiple reports of footsie games, etc..
If Gothard does resign, he will leave after multiple offenses to young women, assuming these reports are true, and not only that, multiple incidents of him sending people packing for far less, assuming those reports are also true. My assumptions make it fitting for me to point out one other thing:
This is for the victims, the witnesses, and those helping them, and the organization to deal with, Alfred, not for you or me. I am only involved reading here and commenting because I followed the teachings of IBLP for some time in my life and have worked sort fact from fiction, know personally people much more involved in ATI and IBLP than I ever was, and want to keep apprised of the dangers of what is going on so I can issue caution in getting involved, if the occasion arises.
WHAT did Pastor Jones see, Lynn? Girls getting him lunch? What else are you referring to? I get so weary of this . . .
No, Alfred, it was a (singular) girl taking Bill's dinner to him in his HOTEL ROOM (Flint, MI), where she would stay for a while and VISIT with him ALONE, in his HOTEL ROOM. Pastor Jones asked her about this and her remark was that she did it frequently, and I believe she referred to Bill as her "best friend." You are not reporting correctly when you say "girls." If you get your facts straight you might be more concerned about these young ladies and less "weary."
Let me repeat myself - dealing with this matter is not up to you or to me. We are not witnesses. The people who experienced these things and are coming out about it are talking to others, not you or me. We are not arbiters in this.
Not even Billy Graham would spend time with a woman alone... or at least that's the story I've heard.
It's important to note that this behavior from anyone else would get you the IBLP "Death Sentence". Lead by example.
Rank Hath It's Privileges.
I know a bit more than you imply. I have a son on staff at HQ . . . Whatever is implied by Pastor Jones observation just isn't. Young people make him sandwiches (at least we surmise, given his love of egg salad sandwiches) and bring it to him. This reminds me of the Meg "Toothpaste Scandal" . . . yes, I do get weary of it.
As a young lawyer once said on the Gothard list: "I guess your opinion settles the matter."
Well . . . not that anyone else does that on these matters, eh?
I have complained to no avail that that entire account with Pastor Jones was never vetted, validated. I was there when he stood up in the men's session in Sacramento to ask Mr. Gothard what could be done for black families in ATI. I heard what Bill said to him. The account in the book is misleading at best. The "ministry" that Bill invited him to "head up" was "liaison to the black community" in the Flint area. Nothing in that conversation said anything about running the training center. I put my money into the collection for Pastor Jones and this new opportunity.
Things between the Institute and Pastor Jones never got off well. The Pastor had some standards for his family which, although not necessarily "bad", did not mesh with Mr. Gothard's rules. Obviously Mr. G would not have known that in the initial invite, but it makes the point that it is so unlikely that Bill would have promised him a major role with so little to go on.
The incident with the 16 year old making lunch? "Whatever". Mr. G keeps odd hours and works alone or with small groups and often does not get to the general lunches. This is his version of takeout. You suggest it was his private living area? ("hotel room"?! The hotel was converted to a training center) That is not in the book. Maybe he should have had Pastor Jones make the lunch, instead of the girl? Perhaps. These young people are his "disciples". Some of Jesus disciples were women. In fact, they traveled with him . . . and cooked for him.
Of all the issues under review, this is the least to get excited about.
Alfred,
Over 10 years ago, I first ran across the first wave of people who were making allegations concerning real bonafide sin coming through Bill and this ministry. I wasn't sure what to believe at that time. My children were young and I was not really involved with the inner circle of ATI even though I moderated this mom's support group. In fact, the support group was used by God to bring a lot of peace to moms who thought they were not perfect enough. We laughed. We cried. We were a huge support to each other. I too didn't want to believe these rumorS at the time and sort of put them on the back burner. I felt at the time that there was no way to verify the accusations.
Today, we have a greater way to connect and share our stories. I love my story because it reveals Bill's duplicity and hypocrisy. However, my heart is the message. I want people to see the error of these messages and learn how to test a spiritual theory. I want people to be reconciled to God and know Him for themselves and saved. That motivation is high on my priority list.
I hear in your letters that feeling of privilege that one of your children has now been given the golden scepter to be a part of Bill's inner circle - the one only those specially selected by Bill get to be a part of. So naturally, you were no doubt very excited about how one of your children has been given this advantage and you want to protect your child. How many of us fell into that trap? Don't wait for your child to come home and reject The Lord. You need to get him home ASAP. Trust me when I tell you that these acts of loyalty on your part are examples of your being used and manipulated by Bill because of this child. He has an ability to know who around him will be a loyalist. He treats those people in a way in which they will defend him to the death. That's how he gets away with being a hypocrite. He has so much power over people who have put their most precious thing in life - their children - into his hands trusting him implicitly. I did too until God revealed to me who this man actually was and is. My husband and I have been humiliated beyond belief eating lots of humble pie thanks to Bill and his minions. His loyal minions will say and do anything for him. Just start questioning him and he will turn on you in a heartbeat. The only reason right now that you are in the inner circle is because of your blind loyalty. You think you are backing a genuine man of God who is being falsely accused but be assured that this is not the case. A genuine man of God would not lie, cheat and steal from people or try to be god in their lives as he did.
He seems to know what people want to hear, how to present his message in the most appealing way possible and uses that to his advantage. For example, he never passes the offering plate with a strong appeal to give. Instead, he manipulates the hearts of those with money by giving testimonies that he prays and the exact amount of money comes in for the work of the Lord. Do you have any idea how appealing that is to someone who wants to give to The Lord? Year after year, he would say that God had given him a vision for this new something or mission. The next year, it was something else and that last year's something was never heard of again.
These are tactics he has been using on all of us. We got out around 2006-2007. It was the best decision we've made. I would highly caution anyone sending a young adult to be around this person. Hope that helps.
These things were NOT done merely in the early days to young, willing, marriageable women. They were done repeatedly to multiple girls and women, many of whom were minors at the time, without parental involvement. There are reports of very inappropriate physical affection going on to young girls, some of them probably 40 to 50 or more years his junior.
Reminds me of L Ron Hubbard and his bikini-clad teenybopper "Commodore's Assistants".
Dear RG,
While I applaud the intent of heart of those who caution that vengeance is not ours to carry out, or cry for mercy upon an erring brother. I would like to share the words of Thomas Jefferson "Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." Justice and the protection of the innocent are the responsibility of our culture, ie: fighting abortion, not vindictive acts. Mercy, which by its definition can only occur after all the facts are disclosed and properly understood, must FOLLOW justice. If, and I don't use the word if as a question, there have been immoral conduct and abuse then those who have been given the information must, (by the law of our land), pursued justice with vigor. Mercy, which greatly depends on the spirit of the accused, can be sorted out after that.
May God grant you all clarity of mind, singleness of purpose, and purity of spirit as you begin this endeavor to seek the purity and peace of the Church.
My family and I will stand with you in faith and practice. Let us know how to pray and how we can help.
God's peace,
Dan
--
Thank you, Dan. This meant a lot to me, and others as well. It was a word in season for sure. Thank you for standing with RG. May God bless you and your family.
As a Christian, a former child abuse investigator and someone who was told very early in my Christian life that if I disagreed with Bill Gothard I was in essence a heretic, I applaud your efforts at making the truth known to the Church. However, you must eventually realise that with the situation as it is today with a church /ministry on every streetcorner, your proclamations by themselves lack any real authority, simply because Bill Gothard and others like him can re-locate, re-package their approach and start over any time or place that they choose. If your allegations are factual (and I have no doubt that they are), your only real choice is to involve the legal system, produce witness testimony and press charges with the appropriate legal authorities. I'm sorry to inform you, but if you imagine that a serial sex offender cares anything about some vague notion of "church discipline", you are sadly mistaken. My advice to you is to press charges or drop the whole situation. The more times you force victims to tell their story to untrained professionals with no authority, the less credibility they will have in an actual court of law. (Any competent attorney will have their testimony thrown out, saying that they were coached.) Considering the number of potential victims, why have charges not been filed by this point?
Exile - I think we may share a similar career field. I do believe that the majority of the offenses that have been listed here on the site have actually had their statue of limitations pass. I believe someone posted that there is a year (or thereabouts) time limit for placing charges for workplace sexual harassment in the fine State of Illinois. So, I would imagine most of the victims that have finally come to terms with what happened to them have had their legal statutes "time out".
Based on their teachings on how to handle true sex abuse victims (not talking workplace harassment, but true criminal sexual abuse) where the victim is blamed for the event and people are "counseled" to NOT take their cases to the authorities, if, big IF, there is anyone whom could charge BG in a criminal case, I highly doubt they would even think to tell the police about it.
I am not sure what amount of true legal pressure would be able to be brought forth against BG. The only thing I can think of that could be done effectively in the legal system would be a class action lawsuit against IBLP seeking compensation for the massive amounts of unpaid overtime worked by "employees". Maybe also a class action suit against IBLP in general for actions such as the cases of imprisonment where kids were punished at the various IBLP facilities for whatever infractions, by being locked into rooms and forbidden outside contact.
I do hope though that some kind of resolution can be obtained for this mess. Sad state of affairs.
And the general prohibition on believers taking other Christians to court is just another one of those 1st century anomalies that has no bearing on we, the enlightened, today?
"1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren." (1 Cor. 6)
Alfred, I do enjoy sparring with you, as you are a tenacious opponent. In my heart I am sad for you as it seems you just can not see the evil that has been perpetrated in the name of Christ by BG.
Based upon your reasoning then perhaps, as a Christian, I have been wrong in arresting a deacon for assaulting his wife? Or the time I arrested a couple (whose house looked like a model ATI / IBLP home inside, except for the blood splatter on the walls) for beating the snot out of each other? Or the countless other times I have arrested Christians for breaking other laws?
How about the one ATI family that I got close to once? The matriarch was suffering from a botched medical procedure that was done by a Christian doctor. It has caused her health problems and cost her untold monies even to this day. They did not sue the offending doctor when it would have been entirely APPROPRIATE to do so, because of strict adherence to what you are referring to.
I do sincerely believe that God has placed earthly authorities here on Earth to help bring Justice to all, even those of his flock who go astray. Sometimes, it takes the feel of chrome bracelets upon the wrists to make one wake up and see the error of their ways.
Romans 13:1 (NIV) "Everyone must submit themselves to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."
Verse 2 of Romans 13 is very applicable I do believe to this ever growing case against BG regarding sexual harassment and abuse. Verse 2 of the NIV : "Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."
Now that we have Charlotte's case to read, it has crossed from behavior that violates Bill's own rules of interacting with the opposite sex & rules on workplace harassment, to actual Criminal Sexual Behavior - and that of a predator.
Again, I hope that BG can come forward, repent of his actions, apologize, atone for his sins, and retire into obscurity. Unless, of course, a victim can be found who is still within the parameters of Statute of Limitations. In which case, I very much want to see him charged in Court. Enough is enough!!!
How bout a Christian judge? haha.. (as long as said judge is not 'influenced' by Bill, if you get my meaning.)
There is no way to read "don't go to the government for help" in what was stated there. Policemen are there to protect Christians. But when it comes to "being defrauded" and going to court to recover damages, well, that is a different matter. Not only are we not to sue, if we are sued, we are to give the winning party more than the judgment against us gave them.
The section quoted seems pretty clear. If it doesn't mean, "Don't sue a brother in secular course for financial damages", I am not sure what it does mean.
A tribunal of Christian leaders, yes, that I understand to be Scriptural. Don Veinot has been motivating for such a "court" for years. Complete with videographer and stenographer. Obviously it would have to be under conditions that are impartial, especially given the depth of animosity - and support - Bill Gothard engenders.
Alfred, I'm amazed at your ability to drop into mole holes.
You even quoted the portion of the I Cor. 6 passage where the Holy Spirit denotes that these are legal disagreements (smallest matters). This passage does not deal with accussations of sexual nature.
You and Bill Gothard might try using the "new approach" of the context provided in the Scripture itself to interpret Scripture instead of creating your own context into which to drop verses and passages.
In the early '90s, when questions arose about Gothard's rumored wrong doings, quite a bit speculation went around as to whether Gothard had the heart of a Saul or that of a David.
I've come to conclude that we are asking the wrong question how is it that we must pick between two provided options? I think we should be asking, "Why do we not follow the biblical example provided in I Samuel 17 in dealing with such an enigma instead of fearing this man who troubles the people of God for decades?"
We need to ask as David did, "...who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?"
I believe that the biblical admonition is to drive these out of the land.
Alfred, it would help you great to study the passage you quote. Christians who are trying to be sincere followers of Jesus Christ would not need to be taken to a civil or criminal court. But not all who profess to be Christian are followers of Christ.
I am part of an organization where the President of the organization, a professing Christian and pastor of a church was embezzling ministry funds from the organization and church and had swindled property from another member of the organization. Many opportunities were offered for this man to repent and return what was taken. He refused and said “Take me to court”. He then used the same verses you cited to criticize those who took him to court. He lost in court.
Using God’s word to defend un-biblical behavior and even criminal behavior is especially evil and a popular defense for professing Christians who do not truly know Christ.
While I agree with the basic premise of your thoughts, and fully agree with what it says in 1 Corinthian 6, there are situations where professing Christians are wolves in disguise. In regards to Mr. Gothard… one must ask if he was a true follower of Christ or merely a wolf professing Christianity. Only God knows for absolute certainty. But how Mr. Gothard lives his life and is willing to be accountable to other Godly men should shed light on the biblical sincerity of his professed faith.
This is the middle of the right thing to do which makes it the wrong thing. You are going to an awful lot of trouble to dance the line of accusing without any real evidence. In which case these religious organizations could hold you liable for slander without any evidence admittable in a court of law. Yikes guys. Posting stuff online about 30+ people hurt by this man without enough credible evidence to get him arrested and taken to court while sharing testimonies that read more like romance novels... Double Yikes! Do you understand what you have potentially opened yourselves up to? Either take it to a lawyer with testimonies of all of these people or take it down. What you are doing here is the line between slowly destroying someone's reputation publically or getting yourselves in trouble legally. If he's done something wrong present the evidence to a prosecuting attorney have him arrested and jailed, off the streets and he can repent in prison away from everyone else while he is awaiting sentencing. Otherwise you repent and take this down. Lest you find yourself in a liability lawsuit. I'm not for the guy in the slightest. But man. Do the right thing one way or the other. Cause this. This is not right to the victims, nor is is appropriate to the accused.
If he wants someone charged with slander, he needs to prove that person guilty. Which means that he needs to prove it's a lie. He needs to PROVE that he has never done these things.
The fact that they've already stated that this is just the introduction, that their evidence is about to be released, and that they've already stated that they have lawyers looking over everything, makes your post look a bit like foolish fear-mongering.
Not everything that is wrong is technically against the law. This site may not bring about legal justice, but it can and does serve as a warning to others.
Joe, do you have an attractive teenage daughter? Would you allow her to become part of Mr. Gothard’s “secretarial pool” If you did, and she was one of Mr. Gothard’s “selected favorites” would you be okay with whatever happened to her under the “authority” and “protection” of Mr. Gothard? I suspect that if you did and she was one of dozens of Mr. Gothard’s “selected favorites” (a.k.a. subject of his manipulative abuse), you would be screaming… “Why didn't anyone say something?! How dare anyone allow this happen again and again!” You would be condemning all the victims for not coming forward and telling the truth of what happened to them and you would be demanding that there be a website like this one to warn others about the danger. Fortunately… technology has arrived where this can be a reality and hopefully it will save others, and possibly your own daughter, from also being abused.
As I have been reading through more and more comments on this site urging RG staff to "confront" Mr. Gothard, all I can say is that I would advise you not to do any such thing. As many supporters as this man has, at least one is likely to be a wealthy attorney who would be more than happy to sue you from now until the Rapture. Yes, you need to protect potential victims, but you also need to safeguard yourselves. Keep in mind that anything you say or do could be brought up in court. I say again, contact the appropriate county / district attorney and let them do their job.
As many supporters as this man has, at least one is likely to be a wealthy attorney who would be more than happy to sue you from now until the Rapture.
Just like Elron Hubbard and Scientology.
"Each response we received from him was vague and non-specific..."
As in every word carefully chosen in advance for Plausible Deniability? As in "I Didn't Say That And You Can't Prove I Ever Did"?
Thank you, Recovering Grace, for moving this towards a possible endgame.
I was an ATI student from 1985 to 1995. My last four months in the program were spent in Moscow on the boat. I loved Russia, and the Russian people and the friends I made on the boat. On the other hand it took me two years to (almost) fully recover from my time under the dictatorship of George Mattix, one of Bill's deputies. (And I was an obedient kid!)
It's time for Bill to go and IBLP to close it's doors.
I just did a bit of remembering; I was in actually in the boat on the Moscow River in 1994
I don't have time to wade through the many, many comments previously posted here to know if this question has already been asked. I'm just curious as to whether any legal action is being taken and if so, what does it look like? It seems there is certainly a need to protect innocent victims and it would appear there would be sufficient evidence/witness for a legal investigation and some serious consequences. Just my two cents.
Ministry is not about image--it's about substance. The church is not without real problems, and there is no premium on preserving that image in a vain attempt to mask or hide sin by refusing to deal with it. Sanctification is a painful process that requires repentence. It is often a messy process possibly akin to surgery, but remember that hypocrisy is a battering ram that will destroy anything and everything in its path. There is a very, very high cost to be paid for ignoring these problems and attempting to see them just go away without clear and just resolution.
I thank each of these women for sharing their accounts. It's painful and difficult for these women. They did not ask for the undue attention and abuse.
It is very common to not know how to deal with these situations and to discover that you are very alone. It's a very lonely place to be facing the IBLP machine without being able to talk with someone safe and get helpful counsel. I know, I was there albeit in a very different circumstance.
Thankfully, our God has a heart of restoration for the bruised soul, the wounded heart, and hurt body, and He is able. My prayer is for the damaged ones to be ministered to. Only God can find them all, and see that each and every one is gently and lovingly made whole with His sufficient grace and healing, either by the Holy Spirit alone or the Holy Spirit using wise counselors/ministers whom God makes available. There are and will be growing testimonies of His grace received and ones who had been hurt now overcoming, with some finding new purpose. For those who have been so hurt in the past that while reading this they cannot imagine being healed, please ask God to help you make the choice to receive His grace and let go of bitterness. He will do the work in you, and you will be relieved and glad. For those who are seeking justice, please be careful not to inadvertently cause new hurts through ripple effect of what you do. May grace and justice be flowing as directed by the Most High. I now humble myself, and as we all should, and personally seek God's mercy in the area of my heart He chooses to work on next. I am thankful for His love, which I wasn't aware of at one time in my life, but now I know He is there. Praise God for restoration in me and each of you by His divine ability! To our hurting one, I love you.
Well said, Jennifer.....
This is my response to the allegations made by the creators of "Recovering Grace," if you have the resources and ability to compile a database of accounts of alleged sexual harassment and abuse, it is your duty to report it to the authorities. If you are not willing to do this, then everything you print is just that, allegations.
I'm not saying nothing occurred.
I'm not saying IBLP/ATI and Gothard are incapable of such actions. Far greater men and organizations have been found guilty of such things. And I'm aware that young institutionalized ladies may fear coming forward for fear of repercussions. But how long have these allegations been building - not everyone can be young still. Someone needs to have the moral fortitude to take it to the civic authorities for investigation. If you are not willing to do, and only willing to "publish" another account on your website, then I'm sick of listening to the claims. DO something, or stop publishing. I, for one, am done listening until further action is taken.
Since you are done listening, you probably won't read this. But most of Gothard's actions (false doctrine, sexual harassment, hypocrisy), either aren't illegal, or the statute of limitations on them has expired. But just because something is technically legal doesn't make it right, and does not mean it should not be exposed for what it is.
Some years ago, we had a local Big Stink about a law firm extorting money from various small businesses by threatening lawsuits for OSHA/Workmen's Comp/Environmental violations.
Their defense when the Big Stink broke?
"EVERYTHING WE DID WAS LEGAL!"
Dodged the actual criminal charges (extortion), but that didn't prevent the Bar Association from disbarring them all.
This is yet another tragedy that is far more widespread than many people realize. The Hope of Survivors was founded in 2002 to provide emotional and spiritual support to victims of clergy sexual abuse - abuse by anyone in the role of spiritual authority. I pray that all of Gothard's victims will find hope and healing and that, if we can be of any assistance to them, they will reach out for help. God will hold this man accountable for what he has done to these women who were under his care and leadership.
I respectfully ask the following - please give one detailed example regarding the sexual charges specifically (Matthew 18:15-20 is directly attached to Matthew 18:21-22) of someone who did not violate Matthew 18, but followed this pattern:
They talked to Gothard one-on-one (in person or over the phone if deemed appropriate under the circumstances), and when the issue was unresolved, they talked with 1-2 witnesses (and 1-2 witnesses only without talking to any other persons outside the situation) who then all together talked to Gothard directly; then when the issue was unresolved, they brought the matter to Recovering Grace for publication (but not a moment before).
This very well may have happened, but I have yet to read an account that matches this description (perhaps I missed it?)
Or, if this did not occur, please give a specific example where:
At whatever step in the process the person violated Matthew 18, the person went back to Bill Gothard (and all persons/witnesses that were somehow involved in the violation by either inappropriately being told, or further perpetuating the violation), and properly apologized/repented for their inappropriate action(s) before then preceding to follow Matthew 18 properly.
Thank you - Jonathan
Something else to consider, Jonathan:
1 Tim 3:1-2 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
Titus 1:6-9 6 An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believeand are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. 7 Since an overseer manages God’s household, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. 8 Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. 9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
Eph 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
What I notice in your comment is a process where it seems to me that a victim of abuse may never be able to get out of the cycle of being told to confess to their abuser since the abuser claims the victim has not done Matthew 18 correctly. And yet, Matthew 18:6 is in the context of the same chapter, and a very strong statement on behalf of the children who have been abused. But is there not a monkey on the back of the one who desires to be a teacher that they be above reproach? Putting it differently: If I were being abusive, and many people knew it, would I have free reign to keep my tenure until someone managed to get the Matthew 18 process completely perfectly to my approval?
Matthew,
Thanks for your response - allow me to address a few things (sorry this is so long and let me know if a part doesn't make sense):
First, I think you made excellent points regarding the responsibilities a spiritual leader like Bill Gothard should adhere to in ministry; I agree with those Bible passages. However...
Second, while Gothard and Recovering Grace both have responsibilities, this site does not represent Gothard, so I cannot post anything for him to consider. On this site, I can only post material for Recovering Grace to consider.
Third, let me note I believe church discipline (Matthew 18) and civil (judicial/court) discipline (Romans 13) are both biblical and separate entities (1 Corinthians 6). My post was in regard to church discipline, as I don't feel like I have a good understanding of what the Bible says to do in a situation where both civil and church discipline could be factors. Considering the perspective of a sexual assault victim was a very good point you mentioned; I would love someone on Recovering Grace to write about this, as I am honestly interested in what the Bible says, and it certainly has an impact on how we should view Bill Gothard's situation in question.
Fourth, I do not have proof Gothard is innocent and have never met the man, so I can't speak for his integrity; however, I also haven't seen enough proof yet establishing Gothard is worthy to be considered a tax collector or Gentile like in Matthew 18, which from my perspective appears to be the implication (if not stated claim) of this website. This is why I made my request for information, which I feel is fair unless I misunderstand RG's stance.
Fifth, I also haven't seen enough evidence to be charged in a civilian court, but maybe there is more evidence than has been released. I come from an extended family where sexual assault of a minor occurred, and it was absolutely appalling how hard it was to get a man who had molested a plethora of young girls finally behind bars. If Gothard is guilty, I will pray for justice. I just want to see the evidence before I condemn him.
In closing, I would either:
(a) Like to confirm the church discipline of considering Gothard a tax collector/Gentile is appropriate in this case on the basis that Matthew 18 was correctly followed (see my first post), and if Matthew 18 was not followed...
(b) for Recovering Grace (RG) to correct this error appropriately (see my first post), and if this does not occur...
(c) for RG to not claim they are following Matthew 18, but instead state they are considering the case from a civil discipline perspective, or...
(d) to explain biblically why civil discipline in this case would overrule/supercede normal church discipline. (This means if "a" and "b" above have not been met and RG claims they are still operating from a church discipline and a civil discipline perspective, they need to explain how they are still in harmony with Matthew 18/church discipline if they haven't answered "a" and "b". They could do this by showing the Bible teaches civil discipline in a case like this is all that is necessary for church discipline, etc..) Finally,
(e) RG needs to show at some point of time (obviously they are building a case at present) that there is evidence to accuse BG of sexual assault in a court of law.
I honestly feel like these are valid points worth addressing.
Thanks,
Jonathan
P.S. Another line of thought I would be willing to consider is if the Bible indicates somewhere sexual sins require a different type of church (not civil) discipline. I doubt it as I have never seen such a situation, but I am willing to consider the possibility.
Your comment comes across as sincere and thoughtful. But - there is a saying about losing the smell of a rose in the laboratory. I think you may be losing the big picture, to be frank, and overlooking the real-life consequences. These people who were wounded are not things meant to be graded like term papers but rather they are wounded human beings, crying out for someone to obey the spirit of Jeremiah 22:15-16
“Does it make you a king
to have more and more cedar?
Did not your father have food and drink?
He did what was right and just,
so all went well with him.
He defended the cause of the poor and needy,
and so all went well.
Is that not what it means to know me?”
declares the Lord.
We likely won't convince each other here and I'll probably let it rest for now but I appreciate the interaction. By the way, I know that more is coming. Perhaps there will yet be answers to your questions that are satisfactory to you as it does.
Jonathan,
I would suggest that we consider this thought: If we wanted Bill Gothard to be hated by God and thrown down, we would encourage him to cover his sin. We would not expend effort trying to beg him to confess and forsake it. We would turn a blind eye where the IBLP has put the brakes on anyone attempting to deal with these failures over the past 40 years. If the IBLP board wishes for IBLP to continue, it will take the bull by the horns let Bill face the music.
Everything in my old nature says, "He is irrelevant, just let him go to hell." Here's the problem: That is not Christian love. I have confronted Bill in a letter to him and the IBLP board. Have you also done your part to deal with the issues of which you are aware?
If you wish to destroy a man, prevent people from confronting him--let it all be regulated to hush, hush, and defend him even if he IS a "deficient authority" and simply ignore the issues of sin.
When others speak up, repremand them--instead of him.
Quite simply, just don't warn him and don't bother to confront sin! God will destroy him.
If we do that, we do not love him, we do not warn him, and he will be destroyed. At that point, you can take everything IBLP (in this caes) and trash it--it all burns up. There will be no restoration--only delusional people will remain who refuse to accept the awful reality of what happened and understand the reality of the way things are.
The prophet Nathan did not go through multiple steps--God told him to go and confront David to his face. Nathan obeyed God, and David was broken and restored. Yes, there were consequences that never left his house, but David was forgiven.
The apostle Paul did not avoid direct confrontation over explcit and terrible sexual sin in the Corinthian church and also dealt with it VIA LETTERS written to the Corinthian church which were circulated in the churches. Was that private? I think not. He gave instruction to run the man out of the church if he would not repent.
Many, MANY people have tried to address Gothard on these issues both privately and personally begging him to examine his own heart. The most common response: not even the slightest regard
Simply because a man doesn't break might not prove that he isn't guilty, but it also doesn't prove that he is innocent.
Tribulation needs to do its perfect work. Let it work.
It could be that God might be giving Bill a last chance before he passes into eternity where he will no longer have even an inkling of desire to break before God.
I am very sorrobul tht it is like that well-intentioned people will preventing the necessary brokenness and repentance by simply protecting Bill.
If you hate somebody, just help protect him from dealing with sin.
I've said enough to be painfully clear.
Gothard has been gone to many times by numerous people. Rules have been made to deal with his interactions with young ladies. He apparently breaks those rules, but he has been dealt with time and again over these things.
Charlotte tried to go to deal with it and was accused of lying. Others have tried. It's not a pleasant experience.
My dad and I both went to Gothard (separately) over dishonesty. I received a polite excuse. My dad got ripped apart not only for contaminating my spirit. So much for respecting the authority of parents.
Matthew: I'm sure you've dug in to the scriptures you've used above. My understanding of "Blameless" is not to mean morally perfect, but having the kind of character that does not easily invite reproach, particularly from the outside world. Someone to whom a charge of gross misconduct would seem absurd or farfetched. Widely known to be solid and operating with integrity. Do I have that right ??
Since the winter games are on, I'll use the phrase, "totally, dude!" I feel like we are very much on the same plane.
I think the whole thing sums up as "above reproach." Nobody is perfect. Every pastor has their failings. The whole spirit of those passages is not a checklist where every single box has to be checked (hmmm, you aren't married? disqualified!). Rather, it's giving a practical sense of one who is above reproach. If a Christian leader in any capacity is giving reason to believe there is greed, lust, abuse of power, etc. that is driving their ministry, then they need to step aside at least long enough to make needed changes so that they can be above reproach.
And of course our hope must be restoration, not just tossing them aside. The whole circus could be avoided if a person would choose not to be stiff-necked. But that's their choice, and it forces certain choices on the rest of us.
[…] The Gothard Files: A Case for Disqualification | Recovering Grace. […]
@Jonathan: a strange meme that I see in some of your posts and some others also: RG has to ,at some point compile enough evidence to see BG convicted in a court of law. This states, or implies that the onus is on RG to make legal action the end game. Why do you (and others) make such a claim ?? If it turns out that BG proves difficult, or even impossible to prosecute, what would that prove ??
This also seems like playing both sides of the fence. Alfred wants to know why take him to court at all ?? Now we say RG is culpable if this doesn,t end up in court... Thanks.
[…] uses his position to take sexual advantage of girls and young women. For over three decades. See The Gothard Files: A Case for Disqualification. (added […]
An attempt to make a case that an inability to find an person guilty in a court of law automatically implies that he is guiltless of any impropriety and somehow automatically satisfies the high standard of God's holiness for the church doesn't make sense to me.
Can anyone loyal to Bill or IBLP explain this type of thinking to me?
I also believe that the church is CHARGED to deal with these things prior to legal process. As mentioned before, church jurisdiction is a very difficult problem in dealing with Bill or IBLP as a para-church (apart from church) organization since they are not subject to any specific church or denomination.
[…] all of these allegations spanning about 40 years, I'm surprised there haven't been any investigations. It's time. I don't care that he's 80 years […]
[…] ATI students and families in an effort to warn them of the dangers of Bill Gothard’s teachings, and of his ongoing personal failure to practice what he preaches. These stories have spread like wildfire as they have been shared on social networks and emailed to […]
I'm sorry, but have I missed something? Has this been brought to the attention of the police yet? One of the mistakes many in the Catholic Church made was to try to handle the accusations that were made without involving the legal system, and in doing that they were breaking the law and were culpable for the continuing abuse.
Have you presented this information to the police? This man is breaking the law and needs to be stopped NOW. Church discipline is good spiritually, but girls need to be protected physically, now that you all know what has, and probably still is, going on. Please, you must report this to the police.
[…] The GOTHARD Files: A Case for Disqualification […]
What part of "go" and meet in Matthew 18:15 got lost in translation?
Say what you will, but after many years of conflict resolution hearing disputes and allegations, in a professional legal setting and in church ministry, the internet and email are not how resolutions or repentance occur. When has that ever worked anywhere?
Face-to-face meetings should have been used no matter what you thought of the man. Email is the worst tool there is to resolve conflicts, bar none. Frankly, you might as well have a sniper shoot out his windows and lights while you attempt resolution.
I'm sure some would like that too, unless the real objective was healing in Christ.
Dr. Dee,
Apparently you're new here and have missed the beyond numerous accounts given of the dozens if not hundreds of times people here HAVE gone and met with Bill to no effect whatsoever. This is the end stage of his refusing to deal with his sin privately. Bottom line, face-to-face meetings have happened. Individuals have returned with two or three others with no change. Bill's board has been implored to intervene repeatedly... some have tried, but the board has seen near 100% turnover within the last 2-3 years since the Recovering Grace site/effort began.
The objective is healing and restoration. Your objective should be to know what you're talking about before judging what's going on here.
As someone who as been sexually harassed and abused, I applaud Recovering Grace's approach to addressing what has transpired between Mr. Gothard and these individuals. Thank you for using such a godly and biblical approach as well. I see that as a ministry your heart is for reconciliation and building up the church, and I fully support you all. Now the healing came begin for these ladies.
[…] names; the list at just one Minnesota Catholic university includes eighteen. A group of former Bill Gothard followers expose him as a sexual predator and spiritual […]
Thank you, thank you, thank you RG for every brave story, article and all of the research. The wisdom and dedication to justice that makes up your movement is a true witness to grace indeed recovered. I especially appreciate the lack of hate and vindictive materiel here on the site. This is a difficult task that I believe you are doing beautifully with the finest motives. God will indeed vindicate.
My family were in ATI for about eight years, and I consequently lost my faith and lived with hurt and bitterness toward all Christians for many years. Thankfully God kept at me and I am now 30 years old and in my last year of a theology degree. I have had fantastic counselling and continue to work through the difficult task of turning many years of damaging teaching into a healthy grace filled faith with a loving gracious God –who as it turns out loves unconditionally…
Your mission is a timely inspiration! May we who desire truth stand firm in love.
[…] Feb. 3, Recovering Grace published an explanatory letter on its shift in mission, spurred by allegations made by at least 34 different women who claim they […]
[…] Feb. 3, Recovering Grace published an explanatory letter on its shift in mission, spurred by allegations made by at least 34 different women who claim they […]
[…] https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/the-gothard-files-a-case-for-disqualification-x2/ […]
I have homeschooled my children for over twenty five years and had many friends in ATI and I always recognized that is was a pharisaical organization. I am not a bit surprised to find out that the head Pharisee is a heinous hypocrite! That said, it is grievous to know that in your efforts to do something about it, you are displaying your own lack of theological understanding. The third step of Matt. 18, "tell it to the church" is not what you are doing by making the dirty laundry public. You clearly don't know the function and authority of the visible church (as differentiated from the Invisible Church) in executing that third step of Matt.18 as a way of bringing about repentence for the sake of the sinner's eternal soul. What you have decided to do is wrong and not at all Biblical. It jeopardizes Gothard's soul and will bring more shame to the already sullied reputations of fundamentalist Christian organizations.
Hi Clayvessel, I believe Gothard jeopardized his own soul by refusing to repent for the last 40 years of confrontations (which were NOT public, with the exception of the 80's fiasco), my personal opinion is that we are in between the last two steps of Mt. 18, of telling it to the church, and then treating him as a heathen. Of course I do not speak for RG, this is my opinion.
People bring shame upon themselves by their own sinful actions, the whistleblower is not the one at fault, although I do see your point, however I believe you are misinformed in a few areas.
Also, to the best of everyone's knowledge, there is no known local church that Gothard is willing to recognize as his personal 'authority' if you will, therefore who do we take this to, that he will even co-operate with? If you have any insight on this, please let the moderators know. Thanks for your thoughts. :)
[…] has exhibited a 40-year pattern of refusing accountability for his sinful behavior, and, as we have previously stated, public accountability is the final step in the Matthew 18 […]
I find all of this incredibly appalling and disturbing. I have read several of the accounts that these incredibly brave women have stepped forward to share, including Charlottes. I commend them for having the courage to tell their story. What is more appalling to me however, are those who choose to defend this man, even having the audacity to suggest that perhaps these women "mis-interpreted" what they experienced, or even more egregiously, suggest that these women are not being truthful or are distorting the facts. It's things like these that make victims of abuse reluctant to come forward.
I would like to suggest that this is much more than a simple case for "Disqualification" from ministry for Mr. Gothard. I appreciate that RG is trying to be Biblical in their handling of this matter, however, in my opinion, Charlotte's story could potentially up the stakes. She was 16 at the time the events in her story took place. This means she was a MINOR child. There is no statute of limitations on sexual abuse of minors. Does the Jerry Sandusky case ring any bells folks? As you read each of these stories, it is quite clear there is a pattern. It is abundantly clear that Mr. Gothard TARGETED young teenage girls. Mr. Gothard, in the authoritative position he held, clearly abused that position for his own means. How many more stories will it take before an appeal is made to the Attorney General of the State of Illinois to open an investigation of these claims? And please, you believers who want to try and make the case that "taking a brother to court" is unbiblical, put a sock in it. That DOES NOT apply to criminal behavior. Yes, I said it. Because I read Mr. Gothard's behavior as being criminal.
Let me spell it out for you: Indecent Assault; Criminal Intent to Commit Indecent Assault; Unlawful Contact With Minors; Corruption of Minors; Endangering Welfare of Children;
Except for one that I didn't list, these are all the charges that were applied to the Jerry Sandusky case. Now, I can't say for sure if any of these charges would apply, that would be up to the Attorney General and those prosecuting the case. But from the stories shared, it seems to me that there is enough here to, at the very least, warrant an investigation of this man. I don't care how "revered" he is. If someone engages in behavior that can be interpreted as possibly being criminal, far more needs to be done than just requesting that "the only biblical course of action is for Bill Gothard to step down from all ministry and leadership positions, publicly repent of the above sins, and exhibit fruit in keeping with repentance". Would anyone suggest, had Jerry Sandusky done such a thing, that "Oh, well, that's cool. He repented and is truly sorrowful. We don't need to put him in jail". Give me a break!
Given the similarities of the stories and the pattern that is emerging, it is time to stop defending this man and call for an investigation by appropriate authorities. At the very least, this man is a serial abuser and at worst, a sexual predator. Just because he is a Christian doesn't mean that the most that should happen is him "stepping down and publicly repenting". No, he doesn't get off that easily, not when he exhibits behavior eerily similar to Jerry Sandusky, but with girls. Sorry if this throws some cold water on things. Sorry that I would DARE to see similarities between Mr. Gothard and Mr. Sandusky, but that's what I see here. The stories of these women present some very serious allegations, and they absolutely deserve to be treated seriously. Because it's clear that Mr. Gothard has been confronted about his behavior on numerous occasions, yet he has not changed it. Which means that Mr. Gothard is currently in his same position of authority. I would like for someone to explain to me, given his history, given these serious allegations, why his board has not already removed him or asked for his resignation? Because they should.
Lest you think I am advocating for vengeance against this man, that is not the case. Vengeance is the Lord's, but God's Word also tells us that there can be earthly consequences for our actions here. And if it is eventually shown that Mr. Gothard did indeed engage in criminal behavior, especially the sort of criminal behavior that brings harm upon children, then he should be prosecuted. One of the faults I had relating to the Sandusky case is that it was very clear that Penn State appeared to be more concerned with "protecting the university" than in pursuing the truth and making sure Mr. Sandusky was prosecuted. This almost looks to me to be a similar situation. "Oh, but we don't want to harm Mr. Gothard's WONDERFUL reputation or see his ministry harmed in any way, so let's twist the Bible to shame those making these allegations". I have little regard for those who just think it's OK to "sweep the dirt under the rug", and I'm not saying that RG is doing that. But it almost seems that some of Mr. Gothard's defenders would consider such course of action.
There will be more stories to come, count on it. I encourage those who may be reading this, who may have experienced similar things (or even worse), that have been described by those who have already shared their stories, to speak out. Your voice deserves to be heard.
[…] and evidence have surfaced recently about how Bill Gothard has sexually harassed and molested over 30 young woman, including children, for […]
`First off from what I read depending on the state most of what I read about Bill so far is 3rd degree sexual misconduct. I think his bahavior should put him in jail, however I doubt it will happen. I am aghast at people saying this is a private church matter. How many predators get protected by church people thinking they are state authority?!?! This needs to be dealt with publically and in court. I grew up under his teaching and almost got sent to something he had for teens. I am so glad I didn't go! There are far to many people coming forward for this to be a hoax. This needs to be addressed with the police. Sadly sin doesn't stand still and it lies at the door and waits.
[…] and evidence have surfaced recently about how Bill Gothard has sexually harassed and molested over 30 young woman, including children, for […]
[…] has been publishing victim accounts of alleged abuse at the hands of Gothard. Recovering Grace claims to be privy to at least 34 different women who say they were victims of “textbook sexual […]
[…] scandal involves a wide array of allegations spanning decades. According to dozens of victims who’ve told their stories on Recovering Grace and in its […]
[…] and evidence have surfaced recently about how Bill Gothard has sexually harassed and molested over 30 young woman, including children, for decades. There are rumors that David Gibbs, Jr. — the former president […]
Dear Recovering Grace Team:
Thank you, thank you, thank you for having the courage, integrity and graciousness to write this letter. Wow! What you have done is very much, a work of God--a significant accomplishment of giving life, and that more abundantly! Your words indicate a strong stand against the work of the devil, who has, unfortunately, worked through Bill Gothard to steal, kill and destroy (see John 10:10).
I first attended Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts in 1972, at the age of 13, then again in 1973, and again in 1980. My attendance was very, very highly recommended, and facilitated, by my Christian parents, the church we attended during my growing-up years, and by the Bible college which I attended after high school. For a number of years, the comment "Well, Bill Gothard says...." was very highly respected among my Christian friends and me. But, after a while, some of his sayings began to sound hollow, idealistic (but not realistic) and almost to the level of being paramount with--or, dare I say, even superior to (?!)--the Bible. Of course, none of us would have ever actually made the statement which I just made in my previous sentence because, of course, we clearly, readily recognized that the Bible held supreme and unique authority. However, sometimes actions speak louder than words, and that action of readily grabbing a Bill Gothard quote to apply to any and every situation was so commonplace and strongly used by a number of Christian leaders whom I knew, that I subconsciously came to accept a mindset which might go something like this: "since there's a simple 'Biblical principle' from Bill Gothard which applies to this situation, why look further to see what the Bible says?"
Fortunately--how I thank God for this fact!--I was able to move away from the "supremacy," shall I say, of Bill Gothard, and to return to the commitments which I'd made, at various points in my life, to love GOD with all my heart, soul, mind and strength, and to serve HIM and to learn from HIM. After a period of time, my wife and I realized that we simply didn't want or need "Basic Bill" concepts, teachings, birthday cards with their "principle-based" ideals, etc., so we wrote to Basic Youth, fairly early in our marriage, and asked to be removed from their mailing list.
(Yes, by this time, I'd grown up and gotten married, to a fine Christian lady--and, actually, that very process was a huge step in my spiritual maturity, and in our eventual decision to remove Bill Gothard from our lives. You see, my wife is a number of years older than I am, and my parents were initially not in favor of our relationship. Of course (red flags! red flags! red flags!), I knew, very deeply--Bill Gothard 1:1 (!!)--that I should NEVER do anything without my parents' whole-hearted approval, right? But, wait: my wife's parents WERE in approval! What a dilemma! Which set of devoted, Christian parents should we listen to?! By the grace of God, I can say that we sought to learn from God Himself, not just from one or the other set of parents, and not just from our Basic Youth notebook. I remember so very clearly how the Holy Spirit showed me that I was NOT mocking my father or scorning my mother (Proverbs 30:17): I was simply disagreeing with them. Mind you, our disagreement was over a very significant matter, but there is a very clear and sizeable difference between disagreement and mocking/scorning. So, my wife and I did get married in 1981, and are we ever glad we did! And, yes, I'm happy to say that, within about four years, my parents came to be in favor of our marriage, and we enjoyed many happy years of relationship with them, before their deaths in 2008 and 2010.)
Now, just a few words about your action with regards to Bill's highly unacceptable behavior (as described in your letter, above). Bravo, kudos, congratulations, good-on-you, and Praise God that you've had the courage and integrity to take a stand for what is right, even though it involved going against someone whom you'd previously respected, and whose ministry you'd strongly supported. In 2002, my wife and I went through a similar experience--although on a much smaller scale (much less public; fewer victims)--when the elders' board at our church (a board of which I was a member) had to confront the senior pastor for his inappropriate behavior with women in the church. As I read your letter, and Lizzie's letter, I almost gasped sometimes at the striking similarities, the same types of comments ("I'm sorry that they've been hurt" types of palaver, but not a clear open confession of, or taking responsibility for, sin), the gymnastics which Lizzie had to go through to avoid Bill's advances (sooooo similar to the words which we heard from our former pastor's victims). I could feel my stomach beginning to churn as I read the words, as it brought back so many memories of that path which we had to go down, investigating the allegations, going through the Matthew 18 steps with the former pastor, the victims, other members of church administration, and eventually the entire church--all resulting in that very difficult step of calling for his resignation (then dealing with the fallout of upset members of the church and the small community where the church is located).
So, all of this to say.... I've been where you've been, and it hurts, it's exhausting, it's emotionally and even spiritually draining. But, it's sooooo worth it to take a stand for what is right--worth it because we answer to a much higher authority than a given pastor, or Bill Gothard, or whoever: we answer to the One who is, Himself, full of grace AND full of truth. It isn't always easy to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with our God--but it's always right. Your tasteful and well-written letter indicates that you have accomplished your goal of not acting vindictively, spitefully or gratuitously: rather, you've spoken the truth in love. May God's rich peace rest on you, on Lizzie, and Bill's other victims (Lizzie's is the only letter I've read to date). You've done the right thing, your labor in the Lord is not in vain!
Sincerely,
David Garwood
[…] is motivated by a desire to give full attention to the issues at hand. (See complete letter here)On February 2, Recovering Grace made a public case that Bill Gothard had disqualified himself from ministry by his actions. In doing so, we called […]
[…] and evidence have surfaced recently about how Bill Gothard has sexually harassed and molested over 30 young woman, including children, for decades. There are rumors that David Gibbs, Jr. — the former president […]
Thank you RG team for doing what many of us could not. I went to seminars as a 13 year old and up cause they had impacted my parents, we were in ATI for 8 years, I worked at HQ for 5 months after high school. I too, for many years had seen incorrect spiritual teaching but at the end of my time in Chicago felt I had many more concerns beyond that: about him "flirting" with me and others (or was he just being fatherly??) and I had been brought to a few special trips with him to Northwoods and Nashville but by God's grace was spared anything. I had concerns about his micro-managing. I thought the financial state of IBLP seemed shady and a wreck. I had seen advisers and staff come and go with little or no explanation. But I and many others like me were unable to stop these kinds of abuses because we didn't have enough information and constantly second guessed ourselves whether we were just being judgmental. We were fooled and I am sorrowful over this. My heart grieves for him and how his heart, too, is deceitful and wicked. So is mine. I pray that BG comes to full repentance and reconciliation. He could never make things rigt as he taught reconciliation should be, but thanks be to Jesus that He is enough and that God is over all this and that He is a good and just Judge. I am processing how I can be willing to forgive BG as I have seen many of my peers become bitter and that grieves me,too. There are a few teachings BG had that did impact my life and I refuse to discard those just because of these sins - because they are truth and God's truth is bigger than BG's sins. So thank you again and again for investing your hearts in to this painful process. I am so brokenhearted that Matthew 18 principles of bringing things to a larger audience when 1-on-1 didn't bring about transformation is only NOW happening after 40 years. :( GOd show us all mercy and grace.
[…] are true, although they felt (and often were) powerless to do anything at the time,” states RecoveringGrace.org. “In fact, we have learned that the IBLP Board of Directors has on […]
Please! I met Mr. Gothard in May of 2013. I talked with him and shared many things with him on Young Men's Journey to the Heart. But before we could talk, Mr. Gothard and I were interrupted by a phone call from someone, speaking of a lawyer. This phone call lasted five to ten minutes. Then we went on to talk. I have the spiritual gift of Teaching,so Mr. Gothard was in for a lecture by me. We went on talking for over a half an hour. I shared with him about a book I was working on, and he encouraged me in the writing. He was very fatherly and kind. I shared with him about my family and my walk with God. He was very impressed with me and enjoyed talking to me.
(I am also very good friends with one of Mr. Gothard's high school class mate's spouse who is 76 years old.)
I don't know how Mr. Gothard could do such things as he is alleged of. In May of 2013, Mr. Gothard was enthusiastically telling us(on the Journey) how not to give in to temptation, and how to keep a close walk with God, sinless and pure. He specifically told us kids that he never even learned how to turn on a computer, because of all the evil online.
As far as I am concerned, I think Mr. Gothard is a nice man, and a Godly man. It is very hard to believe he would do anything intentionally wrong. I don't know all the alleged details, but I believe that it is all because of a misunderstanding. I don't think Mr. Gothard meant anything evil by any of his teachings or actions.
And so on the basis of one meeting wherein he flattered you, you know he could not have done these things -- all of these accounts given on this site are, what, lies? Fabrications? I'm not saying this to be mean. But nothing you experienced from Gothard is unusual. That is why he is able to deceive so many.
Hi Nathaniel. Perhaps you have not read many of the accounts here. There are multiple women accusing Gothard of inappropriate behavior, and literally dozens of other men and women (witnesses)coming forward with details of Gothard's 'questionable' behavior over many years, and these men and women worked with him very closely for many years. Maybe you are not aware of that.
I would ask, do you believe that your one time meeting with Gothard trumps the years of experience others have had? Anyone can be pleasant and companionable when they choose.
And quite frankly, suppose that Gothard is actually a very bad man, would you expect him to do bad things in front of everyone all the time?
Nathaniel, one meeting with a person does not mean you know their true person. History is rife with sociopaths who presented a wonderful, personable image to those who first meet them. I once met a man in my work who was part of a multi-million dollar illegal drug empire, responsible directly and indirectly for uncountable deaths. And yet, he was completely personable and liked to talk with the police.
Didn't mean I liked the guy or thought the crimes he had been charged with must have been wrong.
Be a Berean about the teachings of Gothard. I had to learn how to be one the hard way.
Nathanael, along with my family, I sat across the table and had lunch with Mr. Gothard. We spent about an hour visiting with him and Mr. Sammons. All the while our curriculum coordinator sat next to me. She would fit Mr. Gothard's taste in girls and he could of very well been playing footsie with her under the table with the protection of the tablecloth hiding his actions. I don't know if that actually happened, then but it did happen many numerous times according to the testimonies on this website.
To take a one hour or so meeting and base comments as you have made without reviewing all the testimonies and evidence is not considerate of those who, since before 1976, have been left broken and wounded along the way. Please, I beg you, before making another comment take several days and educate yourself!
I remember being troubled by some things, years ago:
One was the phenomenon of a single man dispensing all this advice for parents and children. I mistakenly assumed that God had obviously specially gifted him for such a "ministry." My single, elderly aunt, too, has always been an expert on child rearing, except for the missing link that her advice was never once checked against the experience of raising a child of her own! An uncle was especially harsh with teens in an educational setting, but softened after bringing four of his own through their teen years.
I have never forgotten (or forgiven Gothard for) his manipulation of the crowd of thousands in a week-long seminar in Oklahoma City back in the 1970's. I was teaching in a Christian high school at the time and was attending along with many of our students. Toward the end of one of the sessions, he explained the importance of taking a vow, then asked us to stand if we were willing to "vow" that we would meet with God in a time of daily devotions "every single day, for the rest of our lives." Peer pressure, from students and other faculty members, was stifling. I remember thinking that something was wrong, but I couldn't put my finger on it...and had only a moment to decide. I didn't want to disappoint my students by remaining seated, especially given the value and importance of meeting with God daily. With my heart in turmoil, I stood, along with everyone else around me. Years later, I had long forgotten the "vow," until it came suddenly to mind. More turmoil.
Another was the way his definitions of things always sounded to me like quasi-riddles. In time, I could sort-of, mostly, figure them out. I always assumed that he was so much more learned and Godly than I, and I just wasn't as smart as him to understand all of them.
Thank you for doing this. I hadn't realized how bad it was. I just knew that the whole thing was wrong when I was subjected to their teachings, but I had no idea just how wrong.
[…] now ATI is going through a major scandal. Bill Gothard, the former leader, has been accused by over 34 women of sexual harassment of minors. […]
[…] result was an exposé that includes personal testimonies from 34 women alleging abuse and testimonies from people who corroborated that Gothard had singled out an […]
I have read many accusations against Bill Gothard. While I was reading my spirit was grieved. I have been a follower of Bill Gothard's ministry for a number of year and I have not found flaws within his teaching. It all depends upon the interpretation of the teaching and how it is applied to one's life. I am sorry if your parents misinterpreted Bill's teachings and you suffered as a result of that. God's word says that you must take responsibility for your own salvation and to try the words of a teacher against the Bible itself. This website is called "recovering grace" and yet I see a lot of hypocrisy. Why do you not look into the mirror of God's word as quoted in James 1:23? You are accusing Mr. Gothard of a sin (hypocrisy) that you are also committing. You do not have the grace to forgive your parents, or even Mr. Gothard in the event that he did wrong you. In your question to Mr. Gothard you ask, "With whom do you want to reconcile?", you are intending to trap him and receive an answer that you want to hear. According to the Bible, if someone wrongs you, you must go to him personally and then reconcile with him. It doesn't say to email him. You are not even handling this situation in a biblical way, you are exposing the correspondence for everyone to see. This matter should be kept private until proven through the judicial system. You have no right to publicly defame a person's character until he is proven guilty. My own daughter was helped personally by Mr. Gothard and through his ministry in a great time of need. I am personally grateful for all he has done in my life and in my daughter's life as well. This is my personal opinion on the matter and I will not be corresponding further regarding this. May God's justice prevail.
This article is a couple months old and I'm not sure how many people are going to see your reply unless they're checking the "discussion" page. Your reaction is understandable. However, I would encourage you to read more at this site. This series of articles might be a good place to start: https://www.recoveringgrace.org/category/twistedscriptures/
This includes an article on the Matthew 18 process in the Bible as compared to Bill Gothards' teaching on that process.
[…] The heroes are also given a religious veneer. Sine they read the Bible, it makes it appear that the author is totally okay with a legalistic, umbrella of authority model like Bill Gothard promoted before he stepped down from IBLT after 34 women came forward with sexual harassment claims. […]
[…] have noted on Recovering Grace, Gothard wasn’t the only corrupt person in power: Back in the early 1980s, his brother was forced to resign after several of his sexual relationships with IBLP secretaries […]
[…] I will refer to her here as “Sally”. After her story was published on the website Recovering Grace, Gothard sought to engage Sally in an email correspondence. She has given me permission to share […]
[…] she speaks of, the phrases she recounts, the life she describes. It’s a story that’s all too familiar by now. I’ve carried Heather’s story in my heart these few months, hearing it again whenever […]
[…] Abuse of Authority […]
[…] the places she speaks of, the phrases she recounts, the life she describes. It’s a story that’s all too familiar by now. I’ve carried Heather’s story in my heart these few months, hearing it again and again whenever […]
[…] think the news of Bill Gothard is an example to us that just because you have your ducks in a row doesn’t mean you don’t […]
I have just recently come across this site and had to leave a comment. I have been an independant fundamental baptist for many years. However let me say that I am first and only a child of my Heavenly Father. That is what defines me, not a religious affiliation or title of any sort. I have in the past experienced years of spiritual abuse and departed from the perpetrator of that abuse. I have to say thank you for the message that you are putting forth. I just want to say thank you for standing up for the victim and exposing the truth, but most importantly thank you for doing it in the love of Jesus Christ. I am weary of the attack against an affiliation or belief as a whole instead of an exposure of the indivuals(s) guilty. My Lord is not the guilty so to attack His word and doctrines as a whole is unfair at the least. I will be praying for your cause and that this and other types of abuse will be exposed and stopped. Please`continue to work in grace, share His grace and never turn from the fundamental blocks of God's word, Christ's blood and doctrines.
[…] Gothard, who resigned last year from the Institute for Basic Life Principles (IBLP) on account of sexual abuse and harassment charges, is not the only member of the Gothard family to face accusations of illegal activity. […]
[…] not the little boys and girls violated by their older siblings and their homeschooling parents and homeschooling celebrities and homeschooling debate coaches and homeschooling leaders and homeschooling television stars? […]
[…] Institute (ATI – his homeschool program) teachings on my life. After reading many of the experiences of others I felt that my story would just be redundant, since we all seem to share similarities. My husband […]
[…] Training Institute (ATI – his homeschool program) teachings on my life. After reading many of the experiences of others, I felt that my story would just be redundant since we all seem to share similarities. My husband […]
Do any of you survivors recognize the name Spreenberg on Brook Place in Hinsdale? I want to thank you for looking out for my parents as they got older and became empty nesters. I know your Dad was treated shabbily by BG, and hope you have gotten out of this cult for good.
I am grateful a dear friend told me of this site. I was forced into homeschooling because of the church I was in. I soon knew this wasn't the Lords teaching but teachings that taught care how you look in others eyes not God's eyes. I more horror stories I saw in the church
(Calvary Baptist Church in Smyrna GA) than I care to think of. It destroyed my walk with God and it has taken me 20 yrs. to even think of walking with God again. I haven't set foot in church in 2 decades because of what i went through. This whole church was ATI'ers. Even to this day I see ATI'ers (which are easy to spot)and I wan to scream Run this isn't a walk with God its walk with A horrible Man who is no man of God. This origination is a cult , it turned a whole church into a cult that has been that way for 25 yrs. now. Something must be done.