33 Comments

1. 

   lori August 7, 2011 Reply

   thank you for this to the point response to those who would belittle the ministry you have in recovering grace. again my thanks !!!!!

2. 

   Kelsey August 7, 2011 Reply

   Amen, Recovering Grace! Praying for you and your ministry. May God's blessings be upon YOU!

3. 

   Jaime August 7, 2011 Reply

   Amen! Since ATI, I went to college, graduated with honors, married the man of my dreams, had a beautiful baby girl, had a few articles published and worked at a crisis pregnancy center. I'm far away from all things Gothard, and I'm joyfully loving and serving God--the idea of being bitter implies that I am unhappily staring down the ATI camp. But the truth is, although I had a strange uneasiness with the organization that caused me to draw away from it, I never could pinpoint what was wrong, and so I continued to defend it...until I read one of your articles and realized WHY something about ATI didn't sit well with me! So many things started to make sense, and I suddenly found myself falling in love with the Lord again--after all, He returned to being the God of Grace, and not the God of Constantly Trying My Hardest and Never Measuring Up. Thank you so much!

4. 

   "Hannah" August 7, 2011 Reply

   Thank you, RG! Another common deflector I'm hearing is that a few parents just took things too far. Well, what can I say, but that, my parents took things way too far, yet still did not manage to obtain the extremes Gothard envisioned for them! If what we say is lies, you have no reason to fear. If we speak truth, then don't be afraid to find out the truth about this organization. Don't take our word for it, do your own research. If you are deeply involved in the organization, you will have plenty of opportunity for this. If you keep an open mind, you will see more and more inconsistencies as you go along. Don't be afraid of it. Knowing the truth will always set you free.

5. 

   Julie T August 7, 2011 Reply

   Once again, I have to add my "AMEN!!" to an article. I am struggling with people saying "do something productive and move on" when I feel very strongly that warning people of pitfalls and unBiblical teaching IS doing something productive!!

6. 

   Hillary August 7, 2011 Reply

   Thank you for this article! Unfortunately I have experienced the "bitterness card" repeatedly regarding my own book and website and I can honestly, humbly, and with thanks continue to stand in the truth that I'm not bitter, either. For those who continue to hear this accusation, rest in the truth that the Lord knows your heart. Continue along the path He calls you. The enemy knows which tactics will derail sincere followers of Jesus, and doubts about one's heart (bitterness, deception, rebellion) are one of the surest ways to stop a believer in their tracks. Come boldly to the throne of grace to find help in your time of need, and boldly carry on the mission God has given you! Many blessings!

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     Mercy August 8, 2011 Reply

     Very wise words! You're right that someone questioning my heart's motives is a strong way to cause me to doubt, but thank God for His deliverance and mercy and strength!

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     Donna August 9, 2011 Reply

     AMEN.

7. 

   Will Hunsucker August 8, 2011 Reply

   I think the whole tone of the site conveys a lack of bitterness, if anything.
   
   We can and must speak out to make families aware of the dangers inherent in Gothard's teachings. How that is being done here shows great maturity and much thought put into what is written.
   
   I remember, almost 15 years ago, how amazed I was that so many young people were having negative experiences and yet so few were speaking out about it. I guess we all just needed to grow up a little more. =)
   
   In most churches, it is considered a good thing, healthy and necessary, to speak out against both aberrations within Christianity as well as pseudo-christian or para-church organizations that have been proven harmful in any degree.
   
   Why do so many think Gothard should be exempt?

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     Donna August 9, 2011 Reply

     i think the reason behind this phenomenon is that so many of us were convinced that we were somehow rebellious and, therefore, we were not entitled to speak out. at least, this was MY perspective for years. i was in so much confusion, that i thought i couldn't possibly be right. to be completely honest, i sometimes still have those haunting thoughts in the back of my mind. i KNOW the truth, but i don't always feel it b/c the deception has been so engrained in my thinking.

8. 

   jennifer14 August 8, 2011 Reply

   Wow, these stories are a bit terrifying. We were homeschooled using Bill Gothard for 3 years. The reason we stopped was because my parents divorced and they asked us to leave. I remember going to his seminars. I remember liking the way all the schooling was based on biblical principles. I think we just were not so immersed in it that we thought of it as the ONLY way to live. More like a lot of great ideas. I have to say, I still think some of his principles are right on the mark. However, even as a child (13/14) I did think his treatment of women a bit severe. Our church was "into" the whole bg thing, so I think that probably helped. I still have some of the books, like the character sketches. I homeschool my kids and was thinking about reading some of them during lunch time to them. That is how I found this website. I was looking to see what was up with all of it. It makes me feel blessed that my family was not in so deep that we were harmed spiritually. Like I said, I do feel like I learned some good things from it. Praise God that those of you who had horrible experiences are recovering. Remember that God asks us to live by faith, not by rules and he can use any experience in your life for your better and to honor Him.

9. 

   jennifer14 August 8, 2011 Reply

   I did not mean terrifying because they are against bill gothard, I meant "terrifying because that could have been me and my brothers". God bless your website and heal those who seek healing.

10. 

    Virginia Knowles August 8, 2011 Reply

    Thank you so much for your site. I really relate to this post since I have a similar blog about spiritual abuse and recovery, and I am a former member of a church organization that has a history of these kinds of issues. My husband and I attended an IBYC seminar in the 1980's before we got married and had our 10 kids, and though we never followed the program, I think some of the concepts affected our family anyway.
    
    I have linked to your site on two of my blogs, www.watchtheshepherd.blogspot.com and www.comewearymoms.blogspot.com and sent the web site to my 900+ home school e-magazine subscribers, too. I do see it as such a grace-filled and edifying site. Keep going!
    
    Virginia Knowles

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      Aimee August 9, 2011 Reply

      wow! thank you for passing Recovering Grace along!

11. 

    Ellen August 8, 2011 Reply

    I agree that the whole of the site does not convey bitterness...however, I do find a tone of bitterness occasionally. I notice it -- sometimes -- briefly -- in the articles, but most often in some of the comments posted in response to the articles. This seems logical, since the articles are probably written (and re-written) with more thought, care, and prayer, while the comments are written more quickly, and may be revealing the healing that is still a work-in-progress.

    • 

      DanteDC August 8, 2011 Reply

      Ellen, you're exactly right on the work-in-progress thing. Why would bitterness disqualify our message anyways? It would only serve as evidence that children were "provoked to wrath".
      
      The label "bitter" is like the label "rebel". For people in ATI it is thought-stopping. They won't hear anything else after that. It has been hard-wired into their thinking.
      
      I'm not saying bitterness is a good thing at all, I'm saying that given the magnitude of the issue at hand one would expect small manifestations of it. It is neither fair nor realistic to expect every single statement to be 100% free and grace-filled, though that is the goal.
      
      Then there is the fact that as with any mind-control group, the messenger is attacked rather than the message actually evaluated. If a bitter person was 100% right in their message it wouldn't matter to an ATIer. If there is even a possibility of the message being a threat, they will forgo that conversation and attack the messenger.

12. 

    Glenn E. Chatfield August 8, 2011 Reply

    The "bitterness card" is used by all the cults when addressing ex-cult members. I used to be a Mormon and nowadays I do a lot of exposing their false doctrine. I am continually told I do so only because I am bitter - and of course, "hateful."
    
    I have friends who either have been or still are tangled up with Gothardism, and in one family the father is the local representative. Because of that, I have amassed a lot of information about Gothardism, bought Veinot's book when it was first out (I first connected with MCO in 1999 while researching Gothard), and even bought a few dozen to pass to pastors and others concerned. Additionally, I was able to get a copy of the basic and advanced textbooks to do my own analysis of Gothard's teachings.
    
    When Don Veinot alerted me to your site in his weekly e-mail, it was something I couldn't wait to check out. I have spent the past couple weeks reading all your posts and I find absolutely NOTHING with bitterness.
    
    Keep up the good work of exposing this cult.

13. 

    Kevin August 8, 2011 Reply

    I ran across this verse in my quiet time this morning: Hebrews 12:15:
    
    "See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many."
    
    I'm sure this is a verse that has been used to level the charge of bitterness against those who have questioned Gothard's teaching. But here's the ironic twist that my study Bible's notes include:
    
    "In Deuteronomy 29:18, the 'root... that produces such bitter poison' refers to the person who spreads doubt and disloyalty towards the Lord among the covenant people. Here, too, the 'bitter root' refers to a person who may 'cause trouble' and 'defile' others. To sustain each other's faith, we must encourage the weak and oppose apostates, who may influence others."
    
    I read this verse this morning with the honest soul-searching 'am I bitter?' and came away realizing that those who maim the truth are the ones who create 'such bitter poison.' Rather than promoting bitterness, I believe that RG is commissioned with encouraging the weak and opposing false teaching... all the while in a spirit of grace and an effort to do so peaceably (Hebrews 12:14). That's my hope and prayer.

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      Peggy August 10, 2011 Reply

      Kevin, I just discovered this site. How distressing for me. You are a wonderful young man - - a "product" of ATI. You, your bro and sis - - great kids with fine parents. I hope that you can be a light for some of these young people.

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        Kevin August 10, 2011 Reply

        Thanks for the kind words Peggy, but actually I'm not a product of ATI. My wife grew up in ATI but I guess, if anything, I'm a product of the New York public school system, and am one of the rare 'non-ATI' writers for this site.
        
        I hope the stories on this site encourage you to hear people pursuing Christ beyond the walls of the Institute. Jesus is really at work in this group and his light is evident its many changed lives.

14. 

    SaraJ August 8, 2011 Reply

    Very often Christians confuse passion with bitterness. A post written with a forceful tone is not necessarily written in anger. And even if it is -- if we don't get riled up about injustice and harmful doctrine, then what in the world are we supposed to get worked up about?
    
    I've been on a few other sites and forums where the tone turned malicious after a while. RG is staying above that, which makes me very happy. I've recommended the site to several friends.
    
    -- SJ

15. 

    Sally August 8, 2011 Reply

    My experience in getting out of an abusive marriage has been that there are many who blame the victim for the abuse, are upset that they finally left, and resent any attempts toward healing.

    • 

      "Hannah" August 8, 2011 Reply

      Absolutely, Sally!

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      MatthewS August 9, 2011 Reply

      People don't want you to rock the boat. They want all systems to return to "normal", back to the way things were. It's just so much easier to blame the victim and shame her or him back into playing out their role in the way things were so that everything can return to normal and the boat will quit rocking.

16. 

    JordanMaria August 9, 2011 Reply

    I don't think it's "bitterness" as much as it's righteous indignation.
    
    And what's so wrong about being bitter anyway? It can be part of the healing/grieving process. It's a problem if you let the bitterness consume and destroy your life, but if you're bitter, know it, and are trying to heal, it's not a big deal.
    
    Why deny feelings and emotions? That's what we were taught. No thoughts. No feelings. Just do without question. This is so damaging. It bottles everything up and can make a person lose their mind.
    
    So go ahead, let it all out. Rant, scream, shout, be angry. It's good for you. :)

17. 

    Denise August 9, 2011 Reply

    I do believe that his principle of authority was the most powerful, most destructive and hugely successful message after his distortion of God's grace. He managed to convince thousands of us parents to send our children to be free labor in order to build an empire. Then leadership used this "principle" to stifle and silence any who may question those over them. The main goal in LIT dept. was to "bring them under submission" instead of bringing them "under the blood". Those wonderful students who really wanted to make a difference in people's lives were often stifled by this "non-optional principle".
    Yes, we may feel or have felt bitterness. But when I think of the many lives (almost one of my own dear daughters) that have been shipwrecked because of his empire building,I'm angry! So be angry and sin not...but warn others!!

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      Tammy August 9, 2011 Reply

      Denise, As one parent to another, I agree with your comments. The more I learn and the more stories of these young people that I read the more I am convinced that it's time Bill's true character is exposed. There are still way too many people caught up in this lifestyle of bondage. This misuse of authority is heartbreaking.

      • 

        Denise August 9, 2011 Reply

        Tammy
        My girls and I worked in the training centers and saw and felt thier heavy hand of authority. I wrote about the last part of my expience as a reply on the Letter to my Mom. I about lost my daughter because of the leaders in Indy.This site is needed and I thank these guys for their courage.

        • 

          donnam August 9, 2011

          (((hugs)))

18. 

    Carol September 24, 2011 Reply

    I really was hesitant to delve too much further in reading this website that was recommended to me. We had disregarded "A Matter Of Biblical Principles" based on what read like bitterness and it was difficult to take credence to it as a result. I appreciate your frankness and thoroughness and feel I can consider all that is written here at a more open-minded level. Keep up the open spirit and this will flourish and continue to bless. Too many people are coming out of ATI bitter(and maybe deservedly so..)and it repels the very people who might need the words the most. By confronting the "bitter card" head on I feel I can read this site with a more open mind. God bless.

19. 

    Alyssa January 2, 2012 Reply

    I'm one of the people that found your site through Duggars without Pity. I was not raised ATI but do know several families that were. I find the writing on this site to be insightful and pretty forgiving towards those that impacted you. I don't see bitterness in your message, but even if I did, that doesn't take away from the very important message that you have been called to get across to others. I truly can seed God's work done by Recovering Grace and as a fellow Christian, I thank you for the outlet you've given others.

20. The Dreaded “B” Word | Recovering Grace August 12, 2013 Reply

    [...] I almost always hear another well-meaning Christian reply with one or more of the following: “You’re just bitter; you need to forgive your enemy and move on; stop blaming someone else for your problems; you [...]

21. 

    Anna June 8, 2014 Reply

    Do you think the TLC spotlight on the Duggars has spared them in some way? It looks so wholesome and loving, with 'good fruit'. Now that Gothard has stepped down, is there just another monster to take his place, or do you think the cracks are showing and the light of God's truth will bring this all down? How hard have you tried to talk with any of the Duggars to expose the evil as they are a huge promoter of ATI etc.? Thanks for your time.