This article continues a two-part series as students share the long-term effects of ATI’s teaching against college.
College was evil in my family. My parents have changed their views on this now, but still don’t put a huge emphasis on the importance of a degree. So now, I have 3 siblings whom they would completely pay for college, and none of them want to go. I just can’t comprehend it. I was the only one who attended “real” school for about half my life. The rest were all home-schooled their whole lives and I think this plays a big role on that. I have about a year left for my BA. I will be 30 by time I finish. I feel so behind. And school doesn’t seem as enjoyable as it once did. – A.K.
I “chose” to drop out when my family joined up. It still breaks my heart; I was made to scholar in community. Many messages were bound up with my “choice” to leave school: You are proud. You are a woman, thus incapable of independent moral choice. You were created to serve the men in your family–supporting them as they become world-changing leaders–until God directs you, through them, to marry. These ideas still make me want to retch. But that pain is nothing like the grief of lost time. When I left the program with my mind–a good two years after I left with my feet–I went back as fast as I could. School first. Then therapy. Then school again. – B.L.
I held off on regular college and did Verity, but I feel like the ideals of ATI really affected my ability to carry out my dreams, but I am going to go back one of these days! – A.M.
I’ve done well intellectually — I come from a family of readers, I married a reader, and I am a reader. I “married well” in that my husband’s job supports us comfortably. I like having no school debt. BUT, there is a constant current of anxiety beneath: if something happens to my husband, what will I do? I never even took the GED, much less got a degree. I can do a lot, but I don’t have the credentials to back it up. That is scary, and a situation I don’t want my daughters to be stuck in when they’re older. And it’s still embarrassing to me to admit that I don’t have a high school diploma or college degree. – S.J.
My parents tried to keep life balanced and we were given the option of college if we wanted, but that we didn’t have to go to get ahead. I ended up spending a year at technical school after a “gap year” in which I tried to figure out what I wanted to do. The only problem was that after 2 years, I discovered I didn’t want to be an orthodontic assistant for life! So I quit and joined a mission organization and have been on an adventure for the past 6 years, all without getting a guaranteed “paycheck.” Natural giftings have helped in working now as a language worker, director, and now manager. The only reason I’d go back to school was if I wanted to become a linguist and work more with languages, but I’d have to quit to do that…or do the distance/CLEP deal which isn’t for me. So, yes and no it’s hurt but not in advancing necessarily, just in expanding to do more of what I’ve discovered I enjoy. – L.E.
Even though it’s never really affected me actually getting an upper management position ever it affects me mentally and my self esteem big time! Never quite feel qualified even though I have employers pursuing me for the position. – C.D.
I got married at 19. No regrets there, but I graduated at 17 and could have gotten my Associates Degree at the community college by then. I wanted to SO bad. But that was pretty much – well very much – out of the question. College was definitely not an option at that time in my family. I am now 30 and have 84 credits toward my BA in Education. It is fulfilling but pretty inconvenient as a mom of four young children. The weird thing is, Mom mentioned something the other night about ATI. I said something about how college was frowned upon in ATI and she said “Oh wow, yeah, it was really looked at as evil wasn’t it? I forgot all about that!” I wanted to say, “Well, I remember it every night that I am up until 2 am studying!” Higher education still isn’t very strongly encouraged by my parents though. – W.P.
I went to college when I was 19. I only completed a year partially because I did not like the school but also because college wasn’t valued by my parents (and by parents I mean mother if you catch the drift). Instead of going back to college after my summer break I got married because it seemed like a logical step in life if I wasn’t going to get a degree. Yeah, I’m still shaking my head at that concept. My chosen field at this point is TV production and entertainment so a degree isn’t really necessary. However, I still kind of wish I had finished a degree. I think the discipline of college and the satisfaction of getting a degree would be a benefit. Also I imagine that I wouldn’t be so poor if I had a degree. – I.Q.
I was sent to HQ 2 months after I “graduated” from high school. I desperately wanted to be “the” lawyer that overturned Roe v. Wade, but my father said he’d rather God took me home than to see me enter such a dishonest profession. Besides, his vision for me was to be a wife and mother, and a working feminist would have brought him shame in fundamental circles. There are many days I feel as though I am paying for the life he wanted for me. I *will* go to college someday…probably entering the same year as my youngest child. – D.S.
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Carolynn's family joined ATI in 1997. She attended a significant number of seminars and apprenticeship opportunities before starting college, where she began to carefully examine the teachings of the IBLP organization. Carolynn is currently learning what it means to be free in Christ.
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[...] (Click here to continue with Part 2) All articles on this site reflect the views of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the views of other Recovering Grace contributors or the leadership of the site. Students who have survived Gothardism tend to end up at a wide variety of places on the spiritual and theological spectrum, thus the diversity of opinions expressed on this website reflects that. For our official statement of beliefs, click here. Featured ArticleWhat Now? Life After ATI Advanced Training Institute ATI college fear feminism grace guilt Homeschool IBLP manipulation parents submission [...]
I am 23, newly married and never been to college. I often regret that I could have been graduated by the time I married. The truth is though, that although I swallowed ATI's ideas about college being unnecessary, I would have ended up going much earlier anyways, if it weren't for my health problems. (Severe fatigue, losing weight, largely caused by emotional stress from my family.) So on the one hand, I really wish that I had gone to college, I LOVE to learn, I love a challenge, and a degree would be great. On the other hand, everytime I regret it I remember again, ATI's views on college probably saved me from pushing myself even closer to death than I was. God moves in annoying ways.
Also, instead of going to college, I was able to help lead a small ATI program for a few years at the same time that I was re-learning grace, freedom, and who God really is. So I got to teach it basically unhindered right in ATI. I wouldn't trade that for a degree any day. I still hope to go to college.
"God moves in annoying ways." I chuckled out loud at that one. Sometimes, he does. :) Glad to see you are starting to sort things out and eventually plan to pursue college, Lauren.
College degrees are roughly on the same level today as a high school diploma during the 80s. Most colleges do a good job at teaching you a broad (if shallow) amount of information in a short time. I would not say that the degree is necessary to be "successful in life." But it can help.
Excuse me? What college degrees are you referring to? I'm an RN, BSN who's worked in critical care for over 8 years now. Coincidentally Mr Gothard told me and my father to our faces they he didn't think attending nursing school was God's plan for me since it involved college and all. I wouldn't be successful at my job without my degree, period. I now hope to continue my education in nursing to become a nurse practitioner with a masters degree. Also necessary. No vocational school or apprenticeship could have prepared me for what I do. Believe me I looked into it. I thank God that I had parents that saw the wisdom in letting their children decide if they wanted to attend college or otherwise despite the teachings of ATI. The path my life has followed wouldn't be possible had I not attended college: job, husband, travels, mission trips, church I could go on.
True. There are lots of struggling folks in the work force who earned a college degree, and thus if any idiot can earn one, it lessens the value of a degree.
That being said, having a college degree sure opens a lot more professional doors that Godly character and volunteering seems to. Is that a sad commentary on the state of the world? You bet. But it's (probably) reality.
These stories just make me so sad. I watched friends get their educational dreams smashed in this program. I am already drilling it into our young children's' minds that they WILL go to college :O), vocational training or something. Education opens the doors to so many things. I encourage those who are working their way through degrees to keep going! You CAN do it! What a sense of accomplishment to get it done. My husband took 10 years, but he finally finished. It was harder with a family; but I was so proud of him! AND Women deserve to be educated! Did not Jesus have women learn at his feet as well? Being a stay at home mom I am thankful that I have my education, at least so that I could provide for my family if needed (which has happened to my mother-in-law). God bless those of you working on your educations! Keep it up!!
You know, I don't like the college system as it is. It's frustrating that I can't just take a test to prove my knowledge, or I can't attend just the classes that are dedicated to the field I want to study. Instead, young people have to incur enormous debt (a teacher friend just paid off her college debt after 13 years) and spend a lot of time studying subjects that aren't directly related to their degrees.
So I really liked ATI's promises that degrees aren't necessary and that we could circumvent the traditional system. Especially for someone like me, who really doesn't enjoy formal schooling. And I have been particularly happy not to have school debt to worry about. The problem is that the system is still firmly in place. If you don't have a degree, it's hard to get ahead. ATI promised what it couldn't deliver, and now we're struggling to make it.
I suppose my experience with ATI was a bit unconventional since I did go to college. My dad is a school teacher and he never did buy ATI's promises of young people getting jobs with just a bright smile and good character. He and my mom directed all of his 7 children in their interests to get training in some marketable skill that could support their families someday. This was true even for the girls.
In my case, music was my passion, so for two and a half years I earned 55 college credits at our local community college while living at home. I practiced for local piano performances, taught 17 piano students (which paid for college), and somehow fit in 5 of ATI's short-term music courses at the ITC. It was exhilarating, to say the least, but as a young person I loved every minute of it. Later, I went to Wheaton College for a semester of their music courses and got married soon after.
Now, as a thirty-something wife and mother of four children, I look back and realize I wouldn't change a thing about my education. I am SO thankful that my parents did not put all their proverbial eggs in the ATI basket. Yet at the same time I'm thankful for my ATI experiences. Although I would not recommend ATI to anyone because of all the indoctrination and legalistic beliefs I have had to unlearn, it served its purpose for me for where I was at the time.
In just a few years my husband and I will have to start thinking about higher education for our own children. Our oldest is a girl and she wants to be a seamstress, or perhaps an art teacher. Even now, we are "whittling" her toward her interests in a marketable skill (or two), exposing her to a broad variety of opportunities in our homeschooling but honing in on that which she loves. I try not to get caught up in any one homeschool program but to "go with the flow" so to speak, have fun learning with my children, and trust that God will guide us in the way we should go. (We have even toyed with the idea of "unschooling" our kids - search it on Google).
Fact is, I'm all for higher education and college if it lines up with a specific goal or purpose. But considering that most college grads come out with severe secular indoctrination and crippling debt, I feel there is a better way. Not the ATI way (since that crippled so many in the opposite sense), but a way that is specific to YOU, YOUR CHILD, your God-directed course. College courses may or may not be on His syllabus, but either way, rest assured that neither ATI, nor college, nor a degree, is an end in itself. Real life stuff is not cookie-cutter. That's why we need a grace-lavishing God who directs our steps, works with our mistakes, and sees the end from the beginning.
I have a hard time swallowing the "secular indoctrination" bit. College is just college where you are exposed to a variety of philosophies (somewhat like you would be in the workforce anyway), for the most part, you can take them or leave them. Unless you intend to live in a bubble all your life, you will have to be exposed to this stuff at some point in time. "Secular indoctrination" was used as a scare tactic, for most of us, one that was unwarranted.
As for debt, yes, it is real, but imo it pays off in earning potential. I'm all for making college more affordable, but I still say it's a worthwhile expense, unless you just wanted to work at Wal-mart the rest of your life with no hope of anything better or more financially feasible. Which is where I was, "stuck", prior to college. Education opens doors and opportunities for you in our society.
It always pleases me to hear that some ATI parents were proactive in helping their children to seek God's purpose and direction for their lives instead of passively waiting for failed promises. While this may not have been the case for many, I do thank you for bringing out the point that regardless of our individual ATI experiences, we all do have "a grace-lavishing God who directs our steps, works with our mistakes [and our parent's mistakes], and sees the end from the beginning." While we have all had to "unlearn" some things and are still in that process, we can also be thankful for how God is using those experiences in our lives for his kingdom today. For one thing, so many of you are home-educating your own children, and doing so with much more grace and with a God-directed purpose for each child's bent or calling (not the cookie-cutter approach). I think that's praiseworthy, and I praise God that he DOES see the end from the beginning! Thanks for sharing. :)
Both my husband and I were raised in ATI. Thankfully our both sets of parents understood the importance of a college degree for my husband. As for my own it was part of the condition that if I wanted to get married young, which we did, they would no longer pay for my education. My brother was provided for all the way through his college degree and was not even allowed to work so he could focus on his studies. There was quite a gap in how I was treated verses my brother in this area. Of course it was understood that he would have to support a family and I wouldn't so why continue to pay for my education if I chose marriage? By the way, there are serious gaps in my high school education thanks to the wisdom books so I now struggle to homeschool our daughter in the upper grades. We are having to get a lot of outside help because I just don't know the material I am suppose to teach her.
We spent 7 years putting my husband through school. He got both a BA and a masters and currently works in the medical field. We had two small children and moved all over the country with them for him to finish he degrees. It was super hard, we had no money, still have college debt, and he was super busy all the time. BUT all of that was totally worth it! He choose his profession well, provides very well for our family so I don't have to work unless I want to and has plenty of time for his family now. We watch his friends struggle to provide for their families without a college degree and their lives are hard but they won't buckle down and get the education they need to provide for their families. They will struggle all their lives and the financial gap between them and us continues to grow every year. If you choose a field carefully an education is so worth it!
wow, Katie - the resilience and stick-to-it-iveness (otherwise known as determination or tenacity, I suppose) of you and your husband is inspiring!
SJ, I feel for you. I had not consided going for the GED test myself untill I found a chuch nearby was giving community classes run by volinteers. One was for GED prep. It offered free toutering starting as from as far back as the 5th grade! I jumped at that and was set up with computer lessons,(ITTS,Insturction targeted for TABE success), that were perfect for me. Starts out very simple and builds at your pace.
http://www.glencoe.com/catalog/contemporary/onlinesuite/onlinesuite_sampler.html
Also links that may help anyone looking to get a GED:
www.acenet.edu
www.steckvaughn.com
www.nifl.gov/nifl/
www.doleta.gov
I always knew that I wanted to go to college and begged my parents to send me anywhere: Christian college, the local university or community college. They were completely against it and would offer me no financial or emotional support. I truly love to learn yet I felt like my parents assumed I just wanted to go to college to party. This showed a complete disconnect with who I was and a lack of respect to me. Why always assume your child is going to do the worst?
When I got married at the tender age of 20 my well educated husband was completely supportive of my education. A few month after our marriage I nervously started my first semester at the local community college (to save money, and I had never taken the SAT's or had any idea of my abilities). I did very well and got excellent grades but when my husband mentioned this at a family dinner my parents acted like they hadn't heard him. They tried to deny the fact that I was going to college and doing well! My husband was my financial and emotional support as I attended community college and then moved on to UCSB to get my B.A. Even though I have a great feeling of achievement from finishing my degree I still wish I had had access to career guidance (like you get in public high school) which would have opened my eyes to other degree options. The irony is that my parents' views on higher education have changed (although they still think many degrees are "useless", e.g. Psychology, History, etc.)and my brothers have had financial support to attend college....
Bill Gothard's teachings on higher education were very harmful in my life and definitely affected me financially and emotionally.
I appreciate reading the perspectives here about college. My family was formally in ATI only one year but we were influenced later on by a very conservative church with mostly ATI families.
When I graduated from high school my dad was pretty set I was going to college and I was actually excited and glad to go, although very nervous and shy at first. My mom was not so keen on the idea and tried to persuade my dad to not have me go, but my dad is a very practical man. He knew my past health problems would mean I would need a job where I could have good benefits to provide for my needs and that meant college. I didn't complete my Bachelors and am contemplating finishing that soon. I graduated from a community college with my nursing degree. In the midwest nurses with associates and bachelor's degrees earn about the same. I am a registered nurse and very glad I followed my dad's strong encouragement for me to go. I am seriously considering going for my BSN partly because I can see the trend in healthcare will pretty much force it sooner or later and my health is suffering from the stress of my job. A BSN would set me up better for more of an office or academic type job within nursing in the future. My mom has been less supportive of this even now, but I think the time has come for me to put my foot down and go for it. Thanks to those who shared their stories here. And for the record, in going to college for 3.5 years, I didn't go into any debt, I had two excellent scholarships based on ACT and an activity scholarship, I didn't have any "moral failures" (God's goodness), graduated with excellent grades, and I came out feeling very proud and accomplished and surprised at how well I did. God gets the glory for that.