Here’s The Courtship; Where’s The Love?

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Here’s The Courtship; Where’s The Love?

Here’s The Courtship; Where’s The Love?

25 July 2012, 06:00

When I was twelve, my parents came home and said, “Just so you know, you’re never going to be allowed to date.” This was fine by me; I was more into books than socializing. In fact, although I had a speech prepared on why I didn’t date, I never did get to use it. Still I paid some attention to the lessons on courtship, just in case it ever came up.

According to Mr. Gothard, since the unmarried are supposed to focus on pleasing the Lord, and the married on pleasing each other, the courting should focus on pleasing their parents. I’m not sure how he found out that part, since Paul failed to mention it. The materials explaining courtship and testimonies of successful courtships painted a clear picture of what was expected. A proper, godly courtship went as follows:

Step 1: God reveals to a young man whom he is to marry. Bonus points if he is not attracted to her and/or her existence is pointed out to him by an authority. He cannot, of course, know her well since anything more than a nodding acquaintance with a member of the opposite sex is dangerous. So any confidence he has in proceeding can only come from direct revelation.

Step 2: He seeks his parents’ permission to proceed. They may resort to various stratagems to get to know the girl without arousing her suspicion. Deception is a far less serious crime than arousing improper emotional attachments.

Step 3: He asks her father for permission to court. This begins a months-long vetting process combining techniques used by the Secret Service and the Spanish Inquisition to verify the young man’s impeccable personal history, financial credentials and doctrinal purity.

Step 4: He is given permission by the father to “win his daughter’s heart.” Bonus points if she has no clue that anything is going on until now. Double bonus if she initially thinks he’s icky.

Step 5: The young man tries to “win the girl’s heart,” under close supervision and advisement by her father. The girl receives a divine revelation that she is to marry him, and lets her father know, who then tells the young man. At no time during this process are they without supervision.

Step 6: The parties are now allowed to become emotionally attached, but must still avoid physical contact. (Not kissing is obligatory; not holding hands gets you bonus points.) They also must still never be alone together.

Step 7: They get married, have their first kiss, and waltz off into the blissful life reserved for those who wait for “God’s best.” (At this point they may be alone together, although they still had better be following those rules from the Advanced Seminar.)

As I grew older and watched others try to follow this procedure, I began to have my doubts. Sometimes parents would be gung ho about “God’s leading” and then a few months later would “no longer have peace” and call it off. Did God really change His mind, or were the parents not quite infallible? Either way, it was harsh for those who had been taught to save themselves emotionally as well as physically for the one-and-only and then saw the whole thing blow up in their face.

Plus, children were supposed to defer to parents because parents were older and wiser and not likely to be moved by such unspiritual, changeable factors as physical attractiveness. But it seemed like parents themselves were often concerned with unspiritual, changeable factors like money or social standing or doctrinal minutiae or losing control.

The more I thought about it, the weirder courtship seemed. It was pretty unlikely a nice ATI guy would ever want to marry a girl most noted for bad hair and ferocious arguing. But if one did, how could I ever get to know him in such an unnatural setting, under so much pressure? What if it didn’t work out?

Why couldn’t there just be a friend—someone I already liked and trusted—and why couldn’t we just get to know each other gradually and take things as they came? What was so ungodly about that?

It turned out there was such a friend, one who liked arguing and maybe even the hair. Under the courtship rules it was sinful to like someone pre-courtship, of course, even though it happened all the time. Regardless, we had to go back to step 1 and jump through the courtship hoops.

Our parents meant well. They were trying to help. But looking back over several years now I can see problems that courtship contributed to the early years of our marriage.

Just at the point in our lives when we were supposed to be leaving our old families and forging a new one—just when we should have been treated as full adults—we were treated as young children again. We had rules we had to follow. Parental approval to win. We could have fought it, but we didn’t. We just complied.

In the process, we learned not to talk to God and each other to make decisions. Instead of finding out how we wanted to do things, we just did as we’d been told. It took us years of marriage to learn to actually talk to each other about major decisions.

The Bible says the goal is to leave the old family and cleave to each other. Courtship taught us that the goal was to please our old families and hold back from each other. The wedding didn’t flip a magic switch that changed that dynamic.

I suspect this is why we never really learned to place a priority on us. On just being together, enjoying each other. Until the wedding there was generally a nosy sibling in the back seat. Nine months of misery later, there was a baby in the back seat. But what was really always in the back seat was our relationship.

Deep down, though, we knew we had something special together and we wanted to make it work. It took many years and much conflict, but we finally cast off the rules and the roles and began to listen to each other and build our own relationship the way we liked it. We ditched the mental chaperones and the checklists of proper responses and started being honest with each other.

The ironic thing was that all those things that the courtship pamphlets said would be a solid basis for marriage—a shared spiritual identity, common convictions, a sense of divine leading, parental approval—had evaporated or become irrelevant. But what held us together, through doubt and change, and helped us forge a new life that worked for both of us, was that flimsy thing courtship had told us to ignore: our attraction to each other, mentally, emotionally, and physically.

Certainly current culture has serious problems with the way it handles relationships. But courtship proved not to be a spiritual cure to all ills as advertised, but simply a different human procedure with a different set of problems. It was no more Biblical than what it replaced.

Karen is a homeschooling mother, an attorney, and a writer, in some order. She and her husband both spent all their formative years under IBLP influence. They have four children who have never done a Wisdom Search and now live in the state of Washington.

All articles on this site reflect the views of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the views of other Recovering Grace contributors or the leadership of the site. Students who have survived Gothardism tend to end up at a wide variety of places on the spiritual and theological spectrum, thus the diversity of opinions expressed on this website reflects that. For our official statement of beliefs, click here.

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52 Comments

Heather July 25, 2012 Reply

This is one of the most succinctly worded, clear cut example that explains how Gothard's personal idea of courtship DOESN'T work. I remember when my older brother courted for the first time. One of the parents (his or hers, I don't remember) laid down the rule that they were only allowed one hour long telephone conversation a month, and one letter a month, if I remember correctly. And this was already a long distance relationship. Needless to say, it did NOT work out. By the time they would have really gotten to know each other, they'd have been 50, and if they'd married, good lord, they wouldn't have had the slightest idea WHO they were married to. I did not court, and was able to get to know EXACTLY who my husband is. I was well informed, and knew what I was getting myself into. THANK God! (And we both retained our purity till our wedding night.. thankyouverymuch!)
RyanR July 25, 2012 Reply

Thanks for your article, Karen. While each courtship is as unique as the two individuals who are part of it, your article underscores perfectly the problem with the way Bill Gothard presented it - i.e., that courtship was the ONLY way (going so far as to claim that courtship was training for marriage while dating was training for divorce).

While doubtless there are those for whom courtship worked well, it doesn't work for every couple and for every situation. In fact, as your article demonstrates, it can be downright dangerous.

Thank you for your honesty in sharing your struggles after marriage which stemmed from the application of this system. Kudos to you and your husband for putting the system aside and working through the struggles to a happier marriage!
Esbee July 25, 2012 Reply

After reading all these stories of how BG/patriarchy/QF and other legalism does not work and causes more hurt, confusion and divisions I have come to the conclusion of how to really live a christian life in a few simple steps...of course, after you read it you are free to do with this advice as you wish, follow it, trash it, modify it, print it out on real pretty stationery and send it to BG, whatever.

step 1--We cannot no matter how hard we try, or what we give up or how many times a day we pray, we cannot, ever, EVER EVER please God.

step 2- Follow Jesus. He loves you and accepts you as you are, warts and all...He will tell you how to live the life he wants you to, either place it on your heart or from the word of God.

step 3- If He does not place anything on your heart, or make anything specifically clear, then it is up to you to make those decisions by faith- where to live, who to marry, college, careers, job, number of kids, if any, pets, if any. He will provide or teach you how to make it happen but do not expects checks in the mail from nowhere.

step 4- using emotions in step 3 is ok, it is part of how God made us. Laughing, crying, dread, fear, doubt, worry, joy, etc are all part in parcel with being human. Make sure you use laughter more than any other emotion. It seems to be the most helpful in following all these steps.

step 5-any mistakes you make in trying to follow steps 1-4 are just part of the process. Forgive, ask forgiveness, learn from it and go on.

step 6-any mistakes you make in trying to follow steps 1-5 are just part of the process. Forgive, ask forgiveness, learn from it and go on.

step 7-any mistakes you make in trying to follow steps 1-6 are just part of the process. Forgive, ask forgiveness, learn from it and go on.

Summing up all these steps---Jesus said His burden is easy and His yoke is light. Remember we are but dust. And be like the little kid who asked his mommy after hearing those words......"Mommy, what is butt dust?"
- SJ July 26, 2012 Reply
  
  Thanks Esbee, that brought laughter to my face for the first time in a long time. ATI has really taken a toll on my best friend's life, but I didn't know ATI was the cause until I found this site a week ago. I've been hurting for her for a long while without much laughter. I was happy to laugh again at steps 6 and 7 and also "what is butt dust?". Haha! And I fully agree with your 7 steps. Well put. (just don't try and push them on masses of people as universal, non-negotiable principles ;)
Esbee July 25, 2012 Reply

I found this at http://jensgems.wordpress.com/2007/05/30/cult-watch-ministry-publishes-article-exposing-doug-phillips/

Top 10 Biblical Ways to Acquire a Wife (how did Gothard miss these???)

10. Find a prostitute and marry her. (Hosea 1:1-3)

9. Purchase a piece of property, and get a woman as part of the deal. (Ruth 4:5-10)

8. Find an attractive prisoner of war, bring her home, shave her head, trim her nails, and give her new clothes. Then she’s yours. (Deuteronomy 21:11-13)

7. Go to a party and hide. When the women come out to dance, grab one and carry her off to be your wife. (Judges 21:19-25)

6. Cut 200 foreskins off of your future father-in-law’s enemies and get his daughter for a wife. (I Samuel 18:27)

5. Become the emperor of a huge nation and hold a beauty contest. (Esther 2:3-4)

4. Find a man with seven daughters, and impress him by watering his flock. (Exodus 2:16-21)

3. When you see someone you like, go home and tell your parents, “I have seen a woman; now get her for me.” If your parents question your decision, simply say, “Get her for me. She’s the one for me.” (Judges 14:1-3)

2. Agree to work seven years in exchange for a woman’s hand in marriage. Get tricked into marrying the wrong woman. Then work another seven years for the woman you wanted to marry in the first place. That’s right. Fourteen years of toil for a woman. (Genesis 29:15-30)

1. Have God create a wife for you while you sleep. Note: this will cost you a rib. (Genesis 2:19-24)
- tangent August 17, 2012 Reply
  
  I love this site. You guys make me laugh. Thanks.
Darcy July 25, 2012 Reply

This is such an excellent example of the pitfalls of "courtship". Thank you for sharing your story.
SaraJ July 25, 2012 Reply

"The ironic thing was that all those things that the courtship pamphlets said would be a solid basis for marriage—a shared spiritual identity, common convictions, a sense of divine leading, parental approval—had evaporated or become irrelevant. But what held us together, through doubt and change, and helped us forge a new life that worked for both of us, was that flimsy thing courtship had told us to ignore: our attraction to each other, mentally, emotionally, and physically."

This is so true! And I want to beat my head against the wall for not thinking through it when I was younger! Fortunately (thank you, God), my husband and I both had parents who knew very well how romance should work, and they got out of our way and let us do it. We had a fantastic courtship and engagement... but we broke all kinds of courtship rules to make it work.

Every couple has to learn how to make decisions together, and how to be honest together. But I agree, Gothard's courtship setup doesn't encourage it.

I laughed at many lines in this article. Thanks for writing it.
"Hannah" July 25, 2012 Reply

Wow! My parents said something very similar to me!

"Well, you don't have to commit to courtship now, but you will have to make all these commitments before you become interested in boys, or reach the age at which you would normally have been dating."

Bounded choice = no choice.
MatthewS July 25, 2012 Reply

Well said, Karen! The final paragraph is right on.
Katie July 25, 2012 Reply

Our courtship was a nightmare and our engagement a living hell. We were childhood friends who went to the same church and knew each other well. We wanted nothing more than to be married and our parents treated us like children.

I think that is one of the key problems with courtship is the lack of trust in the young adults to make decisions about their future and their own relationship.

There were several high profile courtships just before ours that our parents really pushed for ours to look perfect. It was chaos between us and the parents. It was so bad between the parents that THEY had to go to counseling together during our engagement just to get along well enough to get us married!

Without a doubt we knew we were marrying each other, we were just unsure who would be standing with us on that day. Thankful they worked out their differences and we made it through the engagement. The only thing that got us through that year and a half was our physical and emotional attraction to each other that had grown over the teenage years of knowing each other. Without that I doubt we would be married today.

We will NOT be doing courtship with our children. Our daughter just turned 13 and we hope that by the time a young man comes around that she really likes we will have earned her trust and her heart enough to speak into her life because she WANTS us to not because we demand it of her. I want her to look back on falling in love as one the happiest times in her life not as one of the most miserable times like ours.
- Heather July 25, 2012 Reply
  
  That's just part of it though, isn't it? The whole 'gotta look good' thing. That was the motivating factor behind most of my parent's decisions (and plenty of my own before I kicked the dust off my feet and departed ATI). Not a good reason to live AT ALL. As Mr. Bennett says, 'What do we live for, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them, in our turn.'
- Gina July 26, 2012 Reply
  
  "We will NOT be doing courtship with our children. Our daughter just turned 13 and we hope that by the time a young man comes around that she really likes we will have earned her trust and her heart enough to speak into her life because she WANTS us to not because we demand it of her."
  
  I like this! That's something you definitely never hear in courtship, in which the parents are always demanding that their children earn their (the parents' trust).
  - Heather August 27, 2012 Reply
    
    Parents demanding that their children earn their (the parent's trust). That's just it though. In those cases, the parent's trust was a manipulative tool, the proverbial carrot that you can never get, even if you bent over backwards and kissed everyone's hmm hmm...
    Goodness I just got so mad, remembering the ridiculous things we had to do.. Ok, calming down..
Wendy Blake July 25, 2012 Reply

Awesome description of courtship: "But what was really always in the back seat was our relationship."
Awesome article!!! I love the "Bonus points"! As if other couples had it "more right" that some. Good grief! LOL
Timothy Baldridge July 25, 2012 Reply

Great article. Today I feel too many people throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to courtship. True, there's a lot wrong with courtship, but my wife and I actually had a very good experience with it.

By the time I met my wife, I had gone through some very fustrating situations that mirror the above stories. E.g. if I start courting a girl, it had better work out, since it was God's will, right? But how do I know if I even like her if I can't talk to her?

My wife and met online while begining preperations for the wedding of some mutual friends. After a few e-mails back and forth (first a few sentances, then a few paragraphs, then a few pages...), she said "yeah, you need to call my Dad before we can talk more".

He thought he'd get rid of me by saying "We beleive in courtship", but he didn't know what a awesome ATI guy I was, (okay, just kidding).

When my father-in-law talked the first time on the phone, he started the conversation this way...and I've never forgot it, since I think it's what's missing in today's courtship culture:

"Tim, in my life, I've interviewed people for many different jobs, and I want to tell you what I tell them. You're not perfect...I'm not perfect...so let's get that out of the way. This is an examination of our failures and our strengths. The only purpose here is to get these things out into the open so that we can make an educated decisision if this marriage is a possibility. Once the emotions get involved, then reason leaves, and it's too late."

That's what's missing these days...mutual respect, and a realization that God isn't going to take out your rib, make a wife from it and say "hey! marry her!".

So yeah, all that to say, BG's view of courtship is wrong, but I think there's a good median between modern dating culture and BG's heresy.
fiddlrts July 25, 2012 Reply

Thanks for the excellent article, Karen.
My wife grew up in a group similar to ATI (also spiritually abusive), while my family spent some time in ATI.

There are so many things that sound familiar from Karen's experience.

She is right that the focus becomes "pleasing the parents," or more accurately in my case, "pleasing the family." The result was that veto power was given to siblings as well. And let me tell you, it never did switch to "pleasing each other." As Karen notes, the expectation is that if courtship is "done right," then the couple will continue to do things "God's way" - that is, the way their families expect.

My wife and I started out with a basic courtship model romance (although we got to know each other first), but we pretty much threw out the entire concept within a few dates. Since neither of us lived at home at that time, we eventually just proceeded to have a relationship that grew naturally. As Sara (above) put it, we broke plenty of rules. And again, Karen is right on. What has carried us through the hard times in our 11 years of marriage has been exactly what the courtship model disdains: passionate, often irrational love.

In thinking this over in the years since our marriage, I have come to the conclusion that much of the attraction of the legalistic rules and procedures - including courtship - is the illusion of control. It is the idea that if we just follow the formula, our children will be guaranteed to do things our way, to see the world our way, to listen to our kind of music, perhaps even to dress as we did - or at least as our Victorian ancestors did.

Unfortunately, not all children can or will meet this standard, and disappointment and anger is all but inevitable in the future.
Jonathan Owens July 25, 2012 Reply

Thank you for this!
Heidi July 25, 2012 Reply

This was hysterical and well written. You have a great sense of humor, but that sad part is it is all true! (falls over laughing)

Thank you for writing this. It was a blessing to read.
Laura Iversen July 26, 2012 Reply

well, BG's def. of courtship taken to extremes was what your article was about, but it worked for us. we had great parents, a great deal of freedom, and yes, we knew each other and talked but felt we needed to ask their permission. after that, our commitments and chaperones were up to us. we kissed when we got married. and we communicated, because after all, it was only us together. we figured it out. but we didn't live next to mom and dad. early on, we had some circumstances that forced the cutting of ties to a large extent, which helped. but we wouldn't change it and feel it was God-lead, and that he honored our asking our parents. Here we are 18 happy years (but not without work) later.
At the same time, I think I could have had a successful marriage to any guy I dated before then. There was another one I chased away with unreasonable expectations. But looking back, I think it could have worked and we would have been happy. and God would have honored it.
We are leaving a lot of decisions to our children, but asking them to ask us for an opinion, and making it so that we have a relationship with them, and they have the wisdom to do it on their own. and we have the freedom to let them. Of course we are praying about their mates, but God does lead. :)
- MatthewS July 26, 2012 Reply
  
  I love the balance, of hearing from people for whom it did work. I wonder what some of the differences were between the experiences that did work versus the ones that went poorly? It seems to me that many of the horror stories here in general (not just about courting) have an element of parents prioritizing control over relationship; I wouldn't be surprised if that theme would make an appearance here as well.
  - Ileata July 26, 2012 Reply
    
    I watched a courtship up close and very personal that really scared me. The poor couple was sooooo stressed the whole time. They weren't free to just enjoy the wonder of falling in love because of others' expectations and rules. It sort of turned me off to the ATI courtship model.
    
    When we "courted," we had a friendship long before it turned into courtship. There was really nothing about it that qualified for a courtship other than that he asked my dad for permission (after we were pretty well set on it and he told me he was going to ask my dad -- so that was breaking a courtship rule, too) but I think some people were just more comfortable with the term.
    
    We didn't try to please everyone else. I had seen the damage that does. We decided that if there were going to be problems with people during that time, we wanted the problems to be between us and "them" and not between the two of us. We focused on our relationship and had a great time. :-) I'm sure we offended many people and all that, but we were focussing on the foundation of our marriage.
    - Lora August 1, 2012
      
      I purposely objected to anyone (especially my parents, considering the particular church they were going to) using the term courtship to describe my relationship/engagement...
  - grateful August 1, 2012 Reply
    
    We had a great courtship, despite what others' expectations were. I just let sll the ridiculous periphery roll off my back and kept my eyes on the prize ... couldn't keep my eyes off her :)
- Karen Richmond July 26, 2012 Reply
  
  I agree that controlling parents make it worse; however, I would point out that in our case our parents were not controlling for the sake of controlling. They were trying in good conscience to fulfill what they had been told was their proper role as parents.
  I think most of the people who had good experiences had a sequence close enough to the "proper courtship sequence" not to step on anyone's expectations. e.g. guy became interested first, parents had opportunity to know and approve guy before things went too far, etc. In our case, I was sure long before my husband was in a position to pursue marriage or my parents had even met him. That meant they felt a need to inquire after his intentions, and then when it came to actually approving him it was way too late to be done casually.
  As for the rules during courtship proper, those mostly came from his parents, but even so, they weren't put in place *to be controlling.* They were put in place because they had been told *this is what a godly relationship must look like.*
  Now, I do think it is valuable to wait on pursuing romantic relationships until adulthood. And I think it's valuable to be purposeful in doing so and not play fast and loose with other people's hearts. But I don't see what parents add to that equation, other than as counselors and friends. (Which I would have been happy with, but honestly, all their concerns were things I had already thought through. I was not a naive, starry-eyed thing, even when I was young. And I rather resent the idea that all girls are too dumb to make a good choice without supervision.)
Rosy July 26, 2012 Reply

My husband's brother is heavily involved in ATI-like things...and HIS children courted...ours dated...I always wonder, does he really think his children's marriages are happier, better than our children's? Observation would say no, but of course, the method trumps the results! We seek to keep communication open with our children.We encourage our sons to talk to the father of their girlfriend, and we encourage our daughters to have their boyfriends to talk to us, but why would we want to attempt to discern God's will for them in this? We try to raise them to make wise decisions, at some point we just have to let them do it!
Julie July 26, 2012 Reply

I can relate to this article in so many ways. Even though my husband and I "dated" I still felt paralyzed by fear throughout most of our relationship - fear of making a mistake or fear that I was ruining God's plan for my life. After we married I found it hard to open up after holding back for so long.

As always, your writing is spot on - and fun to read!
Alas, This Man Must Remain Anonymous July 27, 2012 Reply

This may be the best portion of this article:

Sometimes parents would be gung ho about “God’s leading” and then a few months later would “no longer have peace” and call it off. Did God really change His mind, or were the parents not quite infallible? [...]

Plus, children were supposed to defer to parents because parents were older and wiser and not likely to be moved by such unspiritual, changeable factors as physical attractiveness. But it seemed like parents themselves were often concerned with unspiritual, changeable factors like money or social standing or doctrinal minutiae or losing control.

I'd like to point out that these sorts of notions -- which may amount to worse spiritual immaturity shown by the parent(s) than by the young adult -- do not automatically dry up and die when someone rejects Gothard by name.

The "losing control" part is especially apt. Here's why: the parent who doesn't know to identify and mortify that desire to maintain control, to uphold the "family togetherness" at the expense of organically pushing young adults into their own separate lives, may be just as guilty as the parent who explicitly enforces things like "you can't go courting until you're 30."

I wish I could say my name here. But perhaps it goes without saying that said parents are still certain of their rightness -- including absurd assumptions about their then-potential and now-actual daughter-in-law. Sadly, we're still estranged. Gothard's beliefs go on, like shrapnel in the body, even after someone has already "defeated" him by name. That is why the Gospel, not simply Gothard-rejection, is so vital. Others can agree.
- fiddlrts July 31, 2012 Reply
  
  Your story is similar to mine. The damage caused to my relationship with my parents by the expectations and assumptions about my wife are similar. The combination of that "certainty of their rightness" and the belief that if the rules are followed, the result will be guaranteed means that there is no real room for a difference of opinion - or even personality style.
Sarah July 29, 2012 Reply

Sorry you seem to have spent so much of your life unhappy. I am very sorry your first pregnancy was "Nine miserable months".... there are parents who raise happy children and who raise children who choose courtship and do it quite successfully. I hope you can let go of the damage from the home you grew up in, I have a feeling it would have been unhappy no matter what religions or philosophies your parents followed, they must have been quite unhappy people. I am not a Bill Gothard fan, but you are exaggerating his teachings. Maybe all this was not IBLP's fault and more sinners taking those teachings and using them to try to control and abuse others.
- E. Stephen Burnett July 29, 2012 Reply
  
  Sarah, I highly suggest you look at the foundational articles of this site. They reveal much about Gothard's actual teachings, and far beyond the "these teachings hurt people" rebuttal (this is true, but necessary). The real reason to oppose Gothard's teachings and abuse is that he ends up slandering God, rejecting the complete Gospel, and ignoring God's grace. This is an attack on Christ and His Kingdom that cannot be ignored.
  
  Start by reading A Call for Discernment, which includes the thoughtful, gracious, yet firm refutation of Gothard's errors, written by a group of church elders long before this site got started. You might also try the book A Matter of Basic Principles: Bill Gothard and the Christian Life by Don Veinot, et. al. That was the book that helped me wake up to the poisonous traces of "Gothardism" in my thinking, though my family's exposure to IBLP was minimal and we never got into ATI.
- Karen Richmond July 29, 2012 Reply
  
  Actually, my parents were wonderful, understanding, gracious people in spite of ATI. But the teachings themselves were bad. Don't be quite so quick to rush to judgment about people you've never met.
- "Hannah" July 29, 2012 Reply
  
  Ok, I had to look back for the "nine months of misery"... and when I found it, I had to laugh. Sorry, pregnancy is not a picnic for everyone, but it certainly doesn't change your love for the child.
  
  In short, I think you missed the point, and I don't see the author portraying herself as always unhappy.
  
  Just as needing a better start to marriage than the courtship prototype provided to her/them.
  Long live romance, and the end result of miserable, albeit healthy pregnancies ;p
- DanteDC July 30, 2012 Reply
  
  Possible health issues aside, without closeness and support from her husband, that alone can make the challenge of a pregnancy much worse. I find your words loaded with presumption.
  
  My own courtship carried many negative effects into my marriage that took years (and is really still happening) to work out.
  
  With IBLP there are always three major forces at play: 1 the teaching, 2 the culture, 3 people's sinful nature.
  
  So when you combine false teaching with people worshiping spiritual lust (which is what I call the legalism in the group, I myself was deep in it), fueled by the micro-culture (ATI is rife with legalistic peer pressure).
  
  You can't take any of those three legs away. People that only blame sinful nature fail to see the huge roles the doctrine and culture played into it. Conversely people who only blame the teachings fail to see how the culture and sin nature played into it.
  
  Please take a step back and look for perspective before attacking.
  - "Hannah" July 30, 2012 Reply
    
    Ah, 3 legs... Good observation!
- Ileata July 30, 2012 Reply
  
  I think accusing someone you disagree with as being "unhappy" is really low.
  
  And the fact that pregnancy can be miserable has nothing to do with love for the baby or anything like that. For those who throw up for 9 months and can barely function, it's miserable.
- SaraJ July 31, 2012 Reply
  
  Sarah, reading your comment I see you may actually have been expressing sympathy for the nine miserable months, not judging Karen for it. However, I didn't gather that Karen spent much of her time unhappy, nor that her parents were unhappy. They just tried following a system that was billed as "God's Way" and "Guaranteed Success." Karen is writing as the one who was put through that system, to point out problems with it.
  
  And she didn't exaggerate the teachings. The courtship she described was exactly what BG prescribed to parents and students alike.
  
  Nobody is saying that the parents involved were perfect. But you can't blame the parents and claim that the teachings are good. The teachings are FLAWED. Why is it so hard to ATI families to admit that?
  - Another Hannah August 2, 2012 Reply
    
    " They just tried following a system that was billed as "God's Way" and "Guaranteed Success." Karen is writing as the one who was put through that system, to point out problems with it."
    
    Lol...it could go, "a system that was Bill-ed as God's way..." :)
- Heather August 27, 2012 Reply
  
  Sarah, that IS Bill Gothard's model of courtship. Perhaps you have not thoroughly examined his teachings, but that is what I remember hearing, although my parents mellowed out considerably by the time I was an adult, initially, they believed in it full force. She is NOT exaggerating the teaching. I understand not everyone followed the teaching, but it doesn't change what the teaching was. I think it is unfair for you to tell her she is exaggerating the teaching.
  
  If you would like to know what exactly was IBLP's fault(s), please read the section on 'Tales from the Training Center'. Made my blood boil.
Ruth July 30, 2012 Reply

Oh my word! I laughed so hard reading this article! My husband and I, unfortunately, were first-born, ATI guinea pigs for both families. My family joined ATI the second year of its existence, so it's all I ever knew growing up. I know, sad, right?! Fortunately, my dad was very relationship- focused with all 6 of us kids. I argued about the new rules he'd bring home, and I didn't always change his mind, but I knew he heard me -- really, really heard me -- and I knew without a shadow of a doubt that he thought he was doing the right thing for his family. I never harbored "bitterness" (I HATE that word!) toward my dad.

ATI, on the other hand, MAKES ME SO MAD!

We will not be raising our 5 children in ATI.

Why did I start this comment? Oh right -- courtship! =) So, as you can imagine, my husband and I courted. It was awful! It was long distance, to begin with. MY PHONE CALLS WERE CHAPERONED! Yeah. I had no limit on frequency or length of calls, but one of my sisters would have to be in the room the entire phone call. Also, MY LETTERS WERE EDITED! Yep. My dad would check anything I wrote, to make sure it was all proper, and I wasn't discussing anything innapropriate. Like the fact that I wore jeans. (So, surprise to my husband and in-laws after I joined the family with jeans in my possesion!) My dad also read my husbands letters to me! So weird.

After we were enngaged, the phone calls and letters no longer had to be chaperoned/edited, but we were still, under no circumstances, to be left alone. EVER. (So when the *#@* do you talk about important stuff? On the long-distance phone calls that up until just recently were really awkward?) Because, we might get physical! We might KISS! BUT, ...*giggles*... we found a way to kiss anyway. Before we got married! My dad was so upset when he found out.

My husband and I were basically strangers when we got hitched. I moved 8 hours away from my parents, lived right next door to my new in-laws, and got pregnant right away. What a ROCKY start! So many tears, fights, and stomping off down the road.

I am so, so blessed that my husband and I are learning to fall in love the right way. And throw out old ideas. And listen to each other. And NOT let other people's opinions matter so much! (A hard one, for two firstborns!) And to be friends and lovers and equals.

Thank GOD for grace!
Celeste August 5, 2012 Reply

How cow! What a great article! I have seen so many of my friends (including myself) damaged by this performance based unbiblical system called "courtship." One friend married the first man she "liked" and now has two children and is divorced (of course courtship did not lead them to get divorced but it led them to get married without knowing each other), another friend who thought she couldn't follow Jesus and date (even respectably) and decided to stop following Jesus so that she could date (that was me, thankfully I ran back to the Lord with a healthier perspective), and another friend who is still single at 35 and is just now learning how to relate to the opposite sex. I have no friends for whom the "courtship" model worked.
tangent August 17, 2012 Reply

Excellent article. I am sorry that as ATI-indoctrinated parents, we put such expectations on our first children that there was only one godly way to prepare for marriage. The first one to become engaged did it "perfectly", which made it hard for those who followed and did it in a different way. Nothing sinful, just them working together without the specific direction of the father. Yet that created feelings in the later children that their marriages didn't quite measure up to the high standards of their parents, and that the ones who "did it right were more favored by their parents.
Since then we have turned away from ATI's teachings, but I still find them popping up in my mind. I need to keep feeding on the truth. That is why I enjoy this site so much. The errors we were taught are so simply exposed in articles here. And the grace of our Lord Jesus is lifted up.
Alan August 21, 2012 Reply

You nailed it, Karen.

We have a great marriage today, but it's in spite of our courtship. We were "picture perfect" first-borns, right down to my wife thinking I was icky at first and not holding hands until the altar.

We look back at those months as having very little honesty and romance. Sure, we thought it was romantic at the time, but our main focus was on doing things correctly and being a good example, not on loving each other and dreaming of our life alone together. As a result, we weren't prepared for marriage - something that took us a while to recover from.

I do think God honored our intentions to please Him, and by His mercy we have a marriage (and children) that I'd wish on anyone. But we would certainly do things differently given another chance. And so, we share our experiences with others whenever it might help.
Danielle November 14, 2012 Reply

Triple bonus points for hitting the nail on the head on this on! Ironically, this is the one area that my parents refused any control over in my life. The teachings of Gothard had already done their damage mentally though.... great article.
Danielle November 14, 2012 Reply

Triple bonus points for hitting the nail on the head on this one! Ironically, this is the one area that my parents refused any control over in my life. The teachings of Gothard had already done their damage mentally though.... great article.
Kelsey March 15, 2013 Reply

I LOVE this part:

"I suspect this is why we never really learned to place a priority on us. On just being together, enjoying each other. Until the wedding there was generally a nosy sibling in the back seat. Nine months of misery later, there was a baby in the back seat. But what was really always in the back seat was our relationship."

So, so true...
AnneMarie February 28, 2014 Reply

I realize that some courtships may go by these rules. This is courtship taken to extremes and way out of balance.

In my youth, I did plenty of dating the world's way. I regret the trail of hurt I left behind because I wasn't dating to find my future husband. I was just having a good time at other people's expense. When I got tired of them, I just found someone else who I was interested in more. God convicted me of this when I began to serve Him in my early twenties. He showed me I shouldn't date. He showed me that He would find me a husband. This was WAY before all these courtship books and anti- dating books were even around. Fast forward a few years later when I met my future husband. He had been taught about courtship. I had never heard if it, but I knew it was the other piece of the puzzle for me. We were both college graduates by that time and well into our careers. (No, I didn't lock myself away until Prince Charming showed up.). He did approach my parents for permission to enter a relationship with me. They didn't understand what the big deal was, but they respected him asking and said it was my decision. After we entered into the courtship we spent a lot of one on one time talking and getting to know each other. Happily married now for 15 years.

I wish my parents had understood about how to protect their children at a deeper level, but they didn't. I did things the world's way for so many years. You better believe I am going to be protective over my children when it comes to who they want to date. Being trapped in a terrible marriage must be hell on earth. There are depraved people inside and outside the church. We have to be watchful. In the end your children have to make the choice who they marry, but it is our job as parents to equip them to be discerning.
- Time Marches On February 28, 2014 Reply
  
  Notice that you, as the single young person, controlled not only the parts of your story that you now regret, but the parts that you look back upon fondly. You attended college, started a career, and met a man with whom you explored the possibility of a future marriage. The two of you were the ones who decided to seek parental approval.
  
  According to almost all Christian courtship teaching, you were still "doing it wrong" by living as an independent single woman and not rejecting any man who was not presented to you by your father. In courtship culture, extreme parental control IS the mainstream teaching, not an aberration. Parental jurisdiction over most or all aspects of the young couple's lives as single people and potential romantic relationship is presented as the ideal, not the undesirable extreme.
  
  You may choose to try to exercise extreme control over your own teen and young adult children's lives, but any short term romantic heartbreak you manage to spare them will simply be postponed to a little further down the road, when it will likely be worse. If you try to saddle your children with the perverse doctrine of "emotional purity," forbidding even crushes, you will damage them immeasurably more than teen dating would.
- Time Marches On February 28, 2014 Reply
  
  I'm sorry, AnneMarie, I shouldn't condemn hypothetical actions you haven't yet committed. The strong warning of this article and its accompanying comment, though, is that courtship teachings present a completely false scenario of safety and protection. The stauncher and stricter the "protection," the more damaged parent/offspring relationships almost invariably are by the end, and the resulting marriages don't seem any more likely to be healthy and lasting than they would have been if entered by non-courtship means.
  
  Courtship doesn't guard against heartbreak, doesn't guard against divorce, and almost always severely strains parent/offspring relationships in a way that takes year to repair, if there is ever repair. The parents are often happily oblivious to this strain so long as the continue to feel in control, but that in no way negates what all involved lose.
Ed April 14, 2014 Reply

Just saw this article. Congratulations on your wisdom and insight "beyond your years" and for not yielding to the absolute ridiculousness of "courting". All of your points are "very well taken". Current examples (as seen on TV) demonstrate the pitfalls and shortcomings of this process. (e.g. a 20 year old courting an 18 year old boy who is a freshman in college, holding a part time job.)
Really? Are their revenues from the TV show going to provide the financial support for their relationship and resulting family? Are they receiving any of those revenues?

I am personally aware of the "pitfalls" of the "worldly" model of dating activities and resulting relationship issues. There just has to be a better (and less legalistic) way to provide a caring, sensitive and protective environment for Christians to explore the next developmental stage in their lives.
Brian August 1, 2014 Reply

Wow. I am continually amazed at how warped the Gothard cult is. I was homeschooled, raised in conservative churches, and I'm currently courting a wonderful young lady. One would think I might agree. But the truth is, EVERYTHING in this article is strange to me. So strange I'm incredulous. That is NOT what courtship is!! To the people saying this article displays the shortcomings of courting, you're wrong. It does nothing of the sort, because it isn't even talking about actual courting. This only displays the radical shortcomings of IBLP.

Courtship at it's most basic level is simply two people getting to know one another with a mutual commitment to two principles: intentionality, and accountability. Other principles involved (purity, mutual respect, etc.) are assumed in ALL Christian relationships. What forms those two principles take may vary considerably from couple to couple, but they should be present. If someone can write a convincing article about how either of these principles are bad for a budding relationship, then we can discuss the shortcomings of courtship. But please don't swallow the straw man, the devil's lie, as if it were the real thing! For freedom Christ has set us free!
Freyja September 24, 2022 Reply

My experience to a tee. My parents lied and snuck around to meet with the young man and his parents. I was 100% in the dark. When they revealed him to me, I had the “icky’ reaction. Thank goodness I escaped my childhood home shortly after and forged my own life. They expected me to fall into sin and disgrace, instead I got a college degree, a fabulous career, and bought a house as a single girl. I am now married to a wonderful man with a similar upbringing and we have a strong marriage — that started with healthy dating not courtship! I shudder to think I could have ended up with Mr. Icky….

Here’s The Courtship; Where’s The Love?

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