My family joined the Advanced Training Institute (ATI) in the early ’90s, shortly after attending a Basic Seminar, at the invitation of a family which has in recent history become a household name. I was in my early elementary years at the time. I didn’t really understand why we were making so many abrupt changes in the way our family operated. I was young. I was trusting. Trusting blindly the parents who had us in church every time the doors were open — which was fine by me because I loved being in church. In fact, since I was 4 years old all I ever wanted to be was a pastor. I would preach to family at any and every gathering we had. I’d even offer to baptize people in the bath tub. So at first it seemed like all of these “changes” were to make us a better Christian family. How could anything being used to make us better Christians be a bad thing, right? So of course I embraced everything that the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) taught. I memorized Scriptures, character qualities, principles, and standards that, as I got a little older, I knew I could never live up to. To my own shame, I would raise ideas, topics, and Scriptures in Sunday School just to subtly show everyone in the class (leadership included) just how low their standards really were.
I learned this behavior from my parents, who, after implementing these new “standards” seemed to forget that they even had any sort of a past. My father, who really dove headlong into everything IBLP/ATI/Bill Gothard, was always quick to point out the standards which he had adopted to others, and my mother was a little more subtle (manipulative as I would learn later) about it. The mega-church we attended wouldn’t embrace these teachings. Mom was a Sunday School teacher and would have gatherings with her ladies at the house, and it was there that she’d mix in all of what they were lacking from church. Every time she’d host one of these gatherings, my sister and I would have some role to play — as though we were trophy children meant to show these women what “truly godly children” should act like. Which, until I was in high school, was fine by me. We’ll get to that part soon. I remember on numerous occasions reciting large passages of Scripture (always with hand motions) or serving food or holding wisdom searches as a means of babysitting kids so that the women could learn of “true godliness.” What’s wrong with that? You learned to serve. You learned so much! I wouldn’t discover the answer to that question until this year. I’m now a 29-year-old man with a wife and two beautiful sons.
As I got into my high school years, developing in mind and body as all young men do, I found that I had a weakness for the opposite sex. I thought that all I really wanted was a girlfriend, which of course was taboo. My parents had spies all over this 10,000+ member church. I couldn’t even speak to a girl for more than five seconds without mom and dad knowing about it and questioning me about it later. They wanted to protect my emotions. They wanted to protect me from the “immoral” girls in our youth group. I could count how many of those girls there were on one hand with fingers left over. I’d had brushes with pornography earlier in life and, as inadvertent as it was, they felt I was in great danger. We were to be the “best of the best,” as Mr. Gothard had so often told us. I wanted to please my parents, but, more than that, I was deathly afraid of the consequences of stepping out from under authority, so I obeyed cheerfully and without question. By this time my dad had become the Area Community Coordinator for all of the Institute’s seminars in our city. We even had opportunities to meet with Mr. Gothard personally and hear him comment to my parents about how bright our eyes were. This made us even more of trophy children, and thus, increased the pressure.
My sister and I were sent to the Indianapolis Training Center on several occasions for various seminars and training. My dad was especially proud when I went through Children’s Institute (CI) training. I traveled around our state doing several CI’s, and that was the first (and sadly the only) time I ever saw pride in my father’s face toward me. When I had played little league baseball he was there and involved until I began to get passionate and emotional about it. My father was pleased with me most of the time, but this was the only time I could see the pride in his eyes. It didn’t have anything to do with what I was doing, but rather who it was associated with. My mom was the disciplinarian. I can remember some serious spankings up until I was 15 years old. Nothing was ever quite good enough for her. I’ve still yet to see pride in my mother’s eyes toward me. They faked it very well, putting up a front for others — especially those in the church that they meant to have influence with or among the rank and file of ATI families. When I turned 16, I started working part-time at our church as an audio tech, and I inherited a hand-me-down car from my sister. It wasn’t much — but it was enough freedom for me to wiggle out from under the thumb of my parents.
It was around this time that I began noticing things about our family that just didn’t seem healthy. And this of course led to questioning, which was not welcome in our house. One of the things that I began to wonder was, “why is it that everything about our family is considered ‘private’ and isn’t to be discussed outside of the family, but inside the family we were allotted no personal privacy?” We were told “not to give a bad report.” But to me this seemed to fly in the face of “truthfulness.” Why was I being told that it’s okay to lie to others about something if it protects the family, but within our home there was to be no lying about sin, struggles, or anything else? We weren’t even allowed to have the door to our bedrooms closed unless we were dressing. Everything in our rooms was fair game for mom and dad to go through and/or take for any purpose and without question.
As I began to realize these things, I knew that I was going to have to become a master of keeping secrets from Mom and Dad. This really caused a deep wound in me, because we had it drilled into our heads that the main tactic the enemy uses is to keep information from our parents. I felt like no matter what I did or which direction I went, I had no choice but to live in what I knew was sin; I was going to lie to someone. I began to develop an ever-growing questioning spirit and mind. This was soon classified as rebellion and ultimately led me to leave home.
By the time I turned 18, I was in a full blown “rebellion.” I had met a great young lady and began dating her, much to my parents’ dismay and disapproval. They mostly disapproved because her family didn’t meet their standards and because I was not going through the courtship process. I ended up leaving home and moving in with her family for what I hoped would be a short time. But the more pressure I got from my parents, the more I resisted. I ended up living with this family for a few years. My biggest problem was that, because of my lack of training on how to be in a relationship, I reverted to what I was most comfortable doing: touting myself as a super-Christian. And I ended up doing shameful things to this wonderful, loving family — things that I somehow justified in my own mind, and that ended up ripping that family apart. If for some reason they ever read this, I would like for them to know that words can never express the sorrow that I feel over my actions, because I spoke and acted not only out of ignorance, but out of arrogant ignorance. I understand that my words cannot mend the wounds, but I pray continually to the God of ALL healing, that in mercy He would heal the wounds which I left.
By the end of that relationship I had gone off the deep end and wound up back home. I knew that, in order to be there, I had to conform to what Mom and Dad wanted, so I did. I felt as though I was a prisoner in my own home. Confined — not physically, but mentally, emotionally, and most of all spiritually. Suicide crossed my mind often, because if this was all my life was destined to be, then it wasn’t worth living.
One morning in 2004, I remember just breaking down during my prayer time, asking God what He wanted from me. I had been told what His way was and I tried it, but there were too many holes in the theology for it to work. I remember the most peaceful voice rang to my heart as though it were whispered in my ear: “Think for yourself!” I’ve never let go of that! My response was simply, “How?”
I had been taught what to think, but I had never been taught how to think. It was then that I realized — the true stronghold that had been built in my soul wasn’t there tormenting me with temptations and sin, but rather it was there to cripple my mind so that I couldn’t reason correctly. Satan didn’t need me to commit more sins, he needed my mind to not function correctly so that I would have a distorted view of God. After all, that is his main goal isn’t it? If he can distort our view of God, we’ll become frustrated in our relationship with Him and abandon it altogether. I began to study Scripture in a new way. I began to look for who God is and what He is like. In searching for these things I began to learn about the character of my Heavenly Father. Discovering the character and nature of God brought a trust which cannot be shaken. I’ve learned how to really forgive without surrendering my personal boundaries.
My parents remained a part of IBLP until my father passed away a few years ago. After his passing, my mom left the Institute for a while, but now she and her new husband attend a church which is tightly knitted with IBLP and its dangerous teachings.
While not all of my upbringing was bad, I would say that it’s only by the protective hand of God that I made it to where I am now. I may not have been physically abused, but I grew up in a dangerous environment.
From all that I've learned and experienced, I believe IBLP/ATI to be a cult with Bill Gothard as its head. Cults are dangerous for several reasons, as many of us know. The greatest danger of this particular one is that it breeds narcissistic Christians --- people whose standards appear sky high from a distance, but when examined closely, turn out to be a facade and a willful contradiction against sacred Scripture. There's no arguing or reasoning with a narcissistic person, because not only must they always be right, but they must appear to be above the standards they so cunningly judge others by. They would rather die than be viewed as being flawed or common. They must be viewed as the “best of the best.”
When my dad died, there was no mourning in my heart. There were only raw emotions which I was never allowed to express. Hurt, disappointment, and anger were all I could really feel. See, for all of our training on truthfulness, we had never been allowed to be honest. There’s a big difference, I’ve learned, between truthfulness and honesty. You can be truthful without being honest, but you can’t be honest without being truthful. All I wanted was to be able to have one truly honest moment with my father, but I knew he wasn’t a big enough man to handle it. That’s not a knock on my dad; I don’t blame him. God will hold responsible the man whose false teachings created these problems.
As I sat by my dad’s bed in his final hours, longing for the moment that would never come, that’s when that peaceful voice rang to my heart once again, “Ray, all I want from you is one moment of sheer, pure, raw honesty!” My Heavenly Father wanted with me what I longed for with my dad.
Oh, what love was this that was big enough to take my anger, my hurt, my screaming and shouting, my pain, my joy, my hopes, and my dreams? Without fear of retribution, I unleashed all that had been bottled up for so long with viciousness, passion, and joy! For the first time ever I knew what it was to “Cast ALL of my cares on Him, for He cares for me.” I got to thinking about that verse that day. You know, if you’re trapped under a heavy rock, you can’t cast it off by just pushing it. It requires every once of strength and adrenaline. You’ve got to give it everything you have. That’s what our Father wants us to do with our cares. Unload them on Him because He big enough to take it. He’s God enough to take it! Thank you, Lord Jesus, for your incredible heart of mercy and love!
Ray is 29 years old, and he and his wife Amber have two sons. He has been working in the auto industry for the last five years and is active in his North Florida community, where he enjoys volunteering in his church and with various organizations. His ultimate goal is to open a youth center to work with students and young adults, helping them reach their full potential.
Great article! Lately, I, too, have been noticing how a system based on standards and avoiding "contamination" leads to narcissism. It's so sad how damaging this system really is.
Thank you for sharing. The stories on this website have led to much healing. Thank you for being a part of that.
Ray-
Great post, Thank you. I am a former ATI student and our family actually joined the ministry in early the early 2000s. I can relate to your hurts.
Thank you for speaking out, helping others receive comfort and healing words.
God Bless,
Evan S.
Your comment about narcissistic Christians who are all about appearing to be holy is so insightful and true, about how earnestly they seek to protect their image as "better than" others. It reminded me of the Bible verse that says how some people hide from the light because they don't want their deeds exposed; they're all about the facade and playing the game.
"There’s no arguing or reasoning with a narcissistic person" -- so true.
I loved how you described searching for the true character of God and learning to trust Him as He truly is, not the false image that was taught to so many of us.
Blessings as you continue you walk with our Savior and Gentle Shepherd.
Thank you for sharing! Your story really touched my heart! You put into words thoughts I had but didn't know how to say them! Thank you for giving me some clarity on why I struggle the way I do. ATI did a good job of teaching ppl how to look and act on the outside,but the inside not so much. That is what frustrates me about my mom and step dad to this day, they are no longer part of ATI but they know how to put on the outward, "godly" Christian act, but when others aren't around you would wonder if they are Christians. It has made it hard for me to want a relationship with the Lord, becasue of all the hypocrisy I have seen in their lives. This article is just another stepping stone to help me on my journey to healing! Thanks! :)
Sara,
I'm thankful that you are stepping into freedom. It's not always easy. It took years for me to come to grips and admit what had really happened to myself. You are well on your way! I find it ironic that we were taught to guard our minds because that's where the "battleground" is and then were taught to completely avoid the teachings of psychologists. The reason for it is because these professionals study how the mind works and if we ever figure out how it works we will be more equipped to recognize false teachings and when we are being controlled or manipulated. I think that's why God instructed me to "think for myself" and not go on a "journey into the heart". The fact that you're frustrated is a good sign to you that your mind is operating well. I discovered that I couldn't feel my way out of the web I was caught in. I had to think my way through it. Many prayers and blessings to you on the beautiful journey. Nothing is more beautiful in this world than the life that is set free and lives in the truth that God loves you with a firey passion and longs for you. It's only in freedom that we can have real relationship with Him! God bless you!
Great article. Sadly, even parents were taught not to think for themselves.
While I believe that some of Bill's teachings are questionable, the blame lies solely at the feet of the parents. Parents are always (because of pride and laziness) looking for quick fixes to their family's problems. What parent doesn't want their kids to be spiritual and honor God? However, we have a personal responsibility to check things out in Scripture and if it doesn't line up, forget it! It is too popular today to blame others for our failures. I was an ATI parent and my kids were never sent to any of the Training Centers to become more spiritual or had to endure the whole courtship debacle. Why?? Because I knew God had given me the task of raising my kids--not being lazy and letting Bill G. do it. And that is not to say all who went to Indy, etc. had a bad experience. But let's get real and quit blaming others for our problems and failures. Bud B.
Bud,
Off subject your name sounds extremely familiar. I think I heard my dad mention it at some point. I agree with you that BG isn't to blame for everything. I do believe he may have a lot to answer for given what Jesus said, "It's better to have a mill stone hung around your neck and be cast into the sea than to cause one of these little ones to stumble." It is absolutely imperative to accept the responsibility of being the parent and not become lazy or try to correct the mistakes of your past through your kids. We all want our kids to become better people than we are but there's no quick fix for that for sure!
Bud, I'm curious, how can you tell us to 'get real and quit blaming others for our problems and failures.'? That's not what we're trying to do here. We are not well meaning parents who fell for a pack of lies, we were the children who were brought up in ATI (and in my case), that was all I'd ever known. I lived as I was told to live, I could not have had wisdom, experience, or knowledge to 'search the Scriptures', especially when any disagreement that I would've brought up between Scripture and Gothard would have been labeled as 'rebellion', and squashed. And now that we are adults, and all the promises and teachings have fallen apart and we are left wondering, 'what happened? I tried so hard, and did everything I was supposed to do, why didn't God come through for me?" To me, this is the cry of those at Recovering Grace, realizing that while we can't change what happened, we can find help, comfort, wisdom, and above all, WARN the rest of the world of what ATI has done to us so they can avoid the same trap.
All that being said, I appreciate that you have the mindset of, 'this is my job to raise my kids, not Bill's' etc... Sounds like you are probably much more balanced in the way you digest the teachings of ATI.
Really? Deflecting blame, here? The responsibility does not lie "solely at the feet of the parents". It lies partially at the feet of the parents. All parties involved in propogating these false teachings, bear some of the responsibility, not least of which is the original teacher thereof.
Really, I'm not amused.
Are you a parent yet Bud?
Thanks for sharing Ray—you expressed the whole dynamic quite well. I am glad to see the growth and freedom you are able to live in now. God bless man.
Guys, I do understand your disapppointments and confusion. However, we all have the privilege to "come boldly before the throne of grace" if we are saved and have the Holy Spirit to guide us individually through the Word. I went to a very strict Christian University that went above and beyond what Scripture taught in many areas. It was tough when I realized that not everything I had been taught was correct. But I did not blame them, I accepted it without searching it out in the Scripture first.
Also,some of us who were raised in a family where the dad was a drunk, and God was only mentioned when His Name was being used in vain. And because of that lifestyle there were fights and jobs that could rarely be held and life in general was hard. This embarrassed me a lot as a teenager. But when I accepted Christ, I realized that regardless of my home life I was responsible to God for what He wanted me to do. Yes it was hard and yes there were things to overcome.
I am very sorry for the bad experiences that many of you have had with Gothard and ATI and I do not doubt that they are real, but we would be better off to view these as part of our learning and growing up experiences, than as an excuse for any failures in our lives.
Bud,
Please explain how we are using our legitimate complaints against ATI and Bill's teachings as an "excuse for failure." I don't see anyone here doing that. I see them trying to move on with their life, but yet at the same time, use their past as a warning to others that ATI is not what they think.
Bud,
While there have definitely been some parents who have taken things too far to one extreme, my parents were not that way. They were incredibly balanced, kind, and loving. It was the teachings I received from the mouth of Bill Gothard himself that corrupted my view of God--through extended time in Training Centers and through the seminars themselves. He teaches a gospel that is NOT the gospel at all--it is a man-centered gospel of works, not grace, exactly like the Apostle Paul condemns in the book of Galatians: https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2011/08/gospel-becomes-no-gospel/
Bud, thanks for taking the time to share your perspective. Sounds like your kids are blessed.
From my perspective, I definitely agree with you that using past experiences as an excuse for failure is a Bad Idea. The thing that was different for some Gothardite families than a family with a dad who was a violent drunk (to use that illustration) is that with a violently drunk dad, you can turn to the Lord for refuge. However, with an emotionally and spiritually abusive dad who represents his hurtful treatment as being sent from God to you, you don't want to run to God for refuge because He's the one who kicked you when you were down in the first place. For some people, this is not a big deal but some people really have to take some time and effort to figure it out that their dad's treatment was no better than being wounded by a violent drunk, and that those wounds are not to be confused with God's loving care for his children. Maybe like someone who was molested by a minister has to learn that the minister was not representing God in doing that, and that not all ministers will take advantage of them in that way. God himself can be trusted, even if some of his people cannot.
Sometimes things get worse before they get better, and sometimes people have to dig through some ugly wounds that have been buried for a while. If people hang out and play the victim for the rest of their life, no good. But the other extreme is like the part in the Monty Python movie, I've never watched the whole thing, just seen parts, but there is a scene where a guy is badly losing a sword fight and keeps protesting "it's only a flesh wound!" Neither playing the victim nor ignoring the wounds is equal to healing.
The part where I agree with you is that we do have to take personal responsibility for ourselves and our healing and forward progress. Sometimes we have to stand up to those who say we have no wounds, and sometimes we have to stand up to ourselves and our own internal temptations to dig in and play the victim. Either way, God gives his Holy Spirit and his grace and new life. Nobody can do the Christian life on their own but with God's enabling, anyone can (and must).
I've said this before - excusing our own failures has nothing to do with the purpose of this site.
Personally, I would approve of and vocally support a site of this nature that spoke out about ANY organization that I was exposed to that so systematically mis-used the Bible to further one man's opinions.
Kenneth Copeland? Jack Schaap? Joel Osteen? The popularity or theology wouldn't make a difference.
If I had been on the inside of their ministry, and seen the Bible mis-used to manipulate their followers' behavior, I would feel perfectly free, if not obliged, to speak out against it...
even responsible before God to do so, with all confidence that this is what He wanted me to do.
Bud, I do not use my past as a child/youth in ATI as an 'excuse for my failures.'
As you said yourself, 'life in general was hard.' You had to overcome things in your past, perhaps they were things that left you with a dysfunction that was difficult to overcome, you yourself look back and say, 'this is where this problem came from.' I don't see that as blame shifting, or using excuses, you're just getting to the source of a particular problem. Please keep in mind that people who were in ATI are all most likely at different stages of recovery, and some stages are much more difficult and painful than others. Please do not be hasty to judge them/us. We're still growing too.
As a parent who raised our older kids in the ATI program I can see a lot of the same mistakes made in our family.
After our first basic seminar I found myself longing to have the "beautiful perfect family" that was pictured in the teachings. We joined ATI the next year. As we found ourselves in the program, we lost our joy and everything became performance orientated. I wish I could go back and recapture those years with my children and enjoy loving and serving Jesus with them.
My prayer for each of our children is that they would know how much God loves them and that He desires to guide their lives. I am thankful to God that He is restoring that love for Jesus in my husband's and my heart and revealing the great love that He has for us.
I pray that each of you students would be able to forgive your parents for the mistakes they made in desiring to raise you in a more wholesome environment than they were raised. And with that upbringing, not experiencing God's love and direction in your life. May God bless you with knowing and experiencing the deep, deep love that Jesus has for you.
Pam
Pam, I can relate a lot to your post. As a parent, I too made a lot of mistakes raising my kids and wish I could go back and recapture those years with my children.........etc.
As for Bud Bramlett, your first post came across to me as very prideful and condemning of us parents who didn't recognize the error in Bill's teachings. Lot many of these young people, many of us parents are trying to recover from our past.
I do and have accepted responsibility of my part in failing to properly impart truth to my children. As for it being totally the parents fault I strongly disagree. Bill Gothard must be held accountable for his false teachings that are taught as truth.
It is a great gift, when a parent is willing to admit they were wrong. Thank you. It's not the end of the world, to have been wrong as a parent. I'm learning that, everyday, as I am now a parent; as many of us are. I wish my parents had had the foresight to reevaluate when they met opposition, before overwhelming damage was done.
I appreciate all the responses to my comments on this matter. Not knowing everyone's exact experience with the Institute can certainly put me in the position of being misunderstood and coming across as simple or harsh. But I think that we should approach all of our problems from a Biblical view and I am a little concerned that the trend today (not just with some folks on this web page, but throughout the church)is to blame institutions, society, etc. for the problems in their life.
The truth is, people, institution, society, etc. do cause us a lot of problems. Some are intentional, many are not, but the result is the same-we have problems we didn't create.
Joseph, in book of Genesis is a perfect example of someone who truly was mistreated and had every reason to be bitter. He even had opportunity to get revenge later in life. He actually saw his mistreatment as the hand of God to bring about good. Scripture does not record for us that he spent time complaining about his family or the lying wife of his employer. He moved on.
I am not saying we should ever let others suffer wrongs just because we did not want to say something negative about someone (Bill G. or ATI), but let's be careful not to dwell so much on it that we forget that God is still God and He loves us more than we can comprehend and He allowed us to go thru these circumstances for a purpose.
Pointing out the danger of a "ministry" and using our experiences to do so doesn't equate bitterness.
The story of Joseph is a wonderful story in the Bible. But you don't see anyone in the Bible sharing it with Paul whenever he dealt with false teachers and those who had "done him much harm."
And thank you for your dialog, sir! I agree with you when you say we should not "let others suffer wrongs just because we did not want to say something negative about someone (Bill G. or ATI), but let's be careful not to dwell so much on it that we forget that God is still God and He loves us more than we can comprehend and He allowed us to go thru these circumstances for a purpose."
If the point of a Joseph analogy is "don't sit and simmer in bitterness but look to God instead" then the point holds up well. If the point were an attempt to say "don't imply that Bill Gothard's teachings are false" then the point would not hold up.
Neither Joseph's brothers nor Potiphar were Christian preachers selling a "new approach to life". I observe that it was Joseph who said that God was using these things for good, not his brothers who said it by way of excuse. His brothers repented and Joseph helped them realize that they needed to repent. It's not that Joseph ignored their wrong, it's that he acknowledged it but acknowledged God above it and moved on.
Someone who has done no wrong needs no forgiveness. Joseph forgave his brothers because they had done wrong. They also repented. Joseph was not squeamish about forgiving but neither was he squeamish about acknowledging that his brothers had done him wrong. Remember that he used his political power to frighten them and lock them away in prison to help make the point to them how wrong they had been. LOL, if Gothard were to do some prison time and then acknowledge how wrong he has been, perhaps the story would be a better fit! (I jest, I jest). I do want to push back against any tendency to use the story of Joseph to enforce the "can't-talk rule."
Notice that Joseph didn't say "Potiphar is my umbrella of authority and I am submitting to him and yielding my rights to be a free man." Rather, Joseph had the attitude of "you intended this for evil but God intends it for good" (he said that to his brothers but presumably this attitude would carry through). Two very different approaches, with two very different ramifications about the character and trustworthiness of God.
Having said that, I readily confess that I find the Joseph story to be searching and convicting. Do I really trust God like that? Am I really willing to forgive from the heart like that and to do good to those who have hurt me in the past? May God daily grant me the kind of faith, hope, and love that seemed to come so freely to Joseph!
Excellent comment Matthew. You just about summed it up, I think.
Thank you, Matthew! You have explained it very well!
I disagree Bud that we should approach this from a Biblical view. We should approach it from the view of giving Bill Gothard a complete pass for the damage he has caused to many people and their families. To approach it from a biblical view would require holding him accountable for his false teaching, or as my friend Agent Libson would say to "cut the crap". It sounds like you don't want that.
By the way, I like the way you are "spring loaded" to denounce/dismiss any criticism as "bitter" and "blame-shifting". That's classic Bill Gothard. That's one teaching that many of his followers really integrated into their daily lives.
As long as we're talking about Joseph, I think it's important to note that he made quite sure that his brothers had recognized the error of their ways before he let them know who he was.
He didn't just waltz up to them that first day that he recognized them and say, "Hiya, bros! Remember me? I'm your baby brother! Yeah, that kid you sold to the slavers. Well, guess what? You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good!" NO! He tested them to make sure that they were safe and that they had repented before he let them back into his life.
And when he DID reveal himself, he didn't say "Oh, it's okay that you tossed me in that well and then sold me into slavery. Because, you know, God had a plan. He used it for good." Again, NO! He was quite blunt: "You did evil."
We have to be VERY careful how we present stories from the Bible as we use them to illustrate life lessons. And while the ultimate lesson of Joseph's story IS that God "works all things to the good of those that love Him," and while it DOES promote the virtue of forgiveness, it ALSO promotes the virtue of repentance and illustrates that trust, once lost, must be re-earned --- sometimes in difficult and heart-rending ways.
As others have said, I have no desire for revenge --- revenge wouldn't really make up for the damage that Mr. Gothard's decades of false teachings has done to countless young people and families. I DO, however, very much desire to see Mr. Gothard acknowledge the damage, recognize and publicly repudiate the false teachings, and make some effort at restitution. It would be helpful to see him admit to some of the less-pleasant side-effects of his ministry's structure, like hypocrisy and spiritual and psychological abuse. But I'd settle for just clearing away the false teachings. It would be a good start.
Bud,
Joseph is a great example. He did put his brothers through a test to see if they had really repented. They had and were forgiven. I wonder how it would have gone for them if they had not changed?
Bill Gothard on the other hand. . . I just don't see any repentance. I see making more vows, adding more external standards, and making attempts to save face. But not any change of heart.
Hence the website to warn people away.
Now about complaining. . . ever read the Psalms? There is quite a bit of that in there along with praise. It is very much a part of the healing process.
That seems easy for you to say, not having walked in our shoes.
Yikes! I think I am fighting a losing battle....
Well honestly it seems you keep saying the same thing and its just not true. The people writing these stories ARE moving on and that is why they have been able to look back and write it out objectively to better warn and educate others with there stories.
It's not them "blaming" or "dwelling".
Bud, I understand what you are saying. However, I would like to point out that some of us struggle with things *because* of ATI.
I come from a very balanced family. We enrolled in ATI in it's second year and my parents and younger siblings were in it until after I married in 2000. I think they were in it for about 20 years. All told, I spent about 10 weeks away from home doing "apprenticeship opportunities" so most of the input I received was from my parents themselves.
My father was (and still is) very balanced. I know he saw the problems in ATI for many years and I remember him pointing them out. But he still felt like the basic teaching was important enough to make that investment in our family.
But there have been many things I've still struggled with *because* of the teaching I got through ATI. Teaching that my parents didn't know about. Teaching that was wrong and unbiblical but that I didn't discern as such until I'd been away from it for a while. My Dad was aghast when he found out I was struggling with certain things. He wasn't aware that such teaching was being given. Consequently, even teaching that my Dad gave me that *was* true was viewed through the framework of the false teaching I got at Training Seminars and misinterpreted. It took me years to even identify it as false and even more years to work through what felt like betrayal by someone I trusted - Bill Gothard and ATI.
A few years ago we were preparing to move to the mission field and I realized that all the ATI material I still had was extraneous. It was so full of teaching that wasn't biblical that I couldn't justify bringing it and having someone else read it and have to explain to them which parts were wrong and which were right. So I gave all of it back to my parents. That hurt them very deeply. To them, it felt like I was rejecting the investment they'd made in my life. Even today, they can't understand why I had to do that - why I had to totally remove that aspect of my past from my life in order to move on and work through it. It is something that we just don't talk about. It hurts me that it hurt them. I appreciate all they did for me. I appreciate their investment in my life - a HUGE financial and time investment. It has been difficult for me to express gratefulness to them for all they've done for me without, at the same time, appearing to be ungrateful because I don't want to continue to have those "resources" around my house.
I shared all that to say that, ever so slightly as a student, I understand where you are coming from as a father. But you have to understand where many of us are coming from as students.
Today, I have a really wonderful husband that I met because of an IBLP seminar. We have 6 children, not because we think big families are more spiritual but because God just kept sending them to us and we kept enjoying getting to keep them. We emphasize character with them - but use the Bible to teach it. My life is pretty good, I think. :-D
One more thing....
At the time, I wrongly assumed that because my parents enrolled us in ATI and took us to the Seminars that they agreed with everything that was being taught and that we could and should, too. My Dad never even insinuated this. In fact, he taught us quite the opposite. Somehow I missed that, however. My problem was, like the author of the article said, I needed to think for myself. But I didn't.
Also, I'd like to clarify, my parents and I have a wonderful relationship. There aren't any problems. This one thing is just a subject that we don't agree on and that my parents struggle to understand from my perspective.
I have appreciated many of these articles for they have opened my eyes to learn and grieve over what was really going on at the Centers for one thing - especially for young ladies. I also had no idea the extent parents took Bill's teachings.
I, a parent, have mourned “wasted” years in ATI. I have begged my children to forgive me. They in turn seem unscathed – they see nothing to forgive and continue to point me to all the good things that would never have happened had we not joined ATI. (Yes! There were good things!) None-the-less, I find the hardest person to forgive is myself!
During our years in ATI, I didn’t see my pride, or that I was using my children as ‘trophy children’. I didn’t see my critical spirit. I do now. I thank God for His forgiveness. However, in spite of me, God was at work in me, through me, and in my children. I do believe and want to take God at His Word: All things work together for good...!
We didn’t implement ATI to the exclusion of other curricula. We had many diverse friends in ATI who ranged from solely using ATI as their curriculum to using ATI material only for devotions. We fell somewhere in-between.
I believe most parents had pure hearts: wanting to do the very best for our children. That we bought into a lie is something we weep over as we recognize lost years and lost freedoms. That I lived a lie - making outward appearance so paramount - equally grieves me. (Moms, I believe, experienced devastating losses in their personal lives. While we were young we could have dressed in style, we could have enjoyed careers, we could have enjoyed life so much more stress free, and we could have enjoyed our children more! I lost my firstborn at age 16 to Bill when he went to work, first in Russia and then at the Indy Training Center! Who does that?) I mourn many things. I mourn really having FUN with my children and not always being on high alert over their “spiritual welfare”. We could have ENJOYED LIFE! At least that is what I think, but recently I find myself with contrary thoughts.
My children enjoy life. They have moved on with no noticeable hiccup. It is I who have difficulty. My husband never was a true ‘convert’ to ATI. He enjoyed life. I used to grieve over it (ATI style), but now I thank God for his joie ‘de vivre! He used to tell me there was no formula. I thought he spoke heresy!
I have often wondered how hard it must have been for him to live in a marriage with a woman who admired Bill Gothard’s teachings more than her husband’s. Bill taught we should honor our husbands – well had I done so, I would have been free of ATI years ago. Yet, knowing my past upbringing in the boarding schools, I recognize I would have been looking for someone – some association I needed to be accountable to in a rigid way. (The irony was: it was my comfort zone. It was what was familiar.) And this is my argument. People will find vehicles to allow them to control their environment enabling them to live in their comfort zone. If not ATI, then some other organization or teaching would have come along to facilitate our subconscious shortcomings.
I am coming to terms with this: parents came to ATI from such diverse backgrounds and all brought their unique personal baggage. In my case, I was an MK raised in strict boarding schools. I now recognize I didn’t have an accurate view of God or of my role as a parent. As I am working through forgiving myself and indeed others who negatively impacted my life in boarding schools, I recognize this insidious spiritual pride attempts to control, many times successfully. It invades churches, denominations, organizations and people. We hear such sad stories from every sphere in our broken world. It is a war we are in and we fight. If it weren’t ATI, there would have been another vehicle enabling us to control our world as our upbringing, our baggage dictated. ATI was that vehicle for us.
Am I excusing ATI? By no means. (I feel very strongly Bill should be confronted: forever kept from promoting his legalism and continuing to harm young people.)What I am saying is that other avenues of expression would have come along to facilitate those who felt they needed a legalistic world.
In many ways, ATI was very similar to the Law Romans speaks of: the Law brought us to Christ. The Law (ATI) was a great revealer. It revealed my spiritual pride and my critical attitude, my inability to live as ATI dictated. It revealed no matter how hard I tried, I could not measure up. Living ATI to the level set before us was impossible, just as living under the Law is impossible. It showed me life under the Law (ATI) was fruitless. We need a Savior.
God is showing me that I needed ATI to come to the understanding of His Grace, His unconditional love and acceptance of me without any outward dressing of good works. ATI was the instrument He used to bring me to an end of the works righteousness I didn’t even know I embraced! ATI in the rear-view mirror showed me the subtleness and the extent of my spiritual pride and critical attitude. What I really morn is my stinking spiritual pride and critical attitude!
I also recognize that to stay guilt ridden, mourning the past is exactly where Satan would like to keep me. In that place I will never be effective for God. My focus, my gaze will be on the rear-view mirror and not on the road before me!
I am thankful for God’s healing, and recognize I have a long way to go to appropriate His grace, His unconditional love and His smile of approval on me. I find I am mourning less and less and moving on. Another irony: I am following my children’s example!
Years ago in College I had a Bible professor who was known for his saying: “The hardest thing in the world is to stay balanced!” My prayer for our ATI trained children is just this: That you would find, as many are finding, that God alone is sufficient. That you would be able to forgive and move into the freedom Christ offers. That you will have great caution and much wisdom to discern - am I speaking ATI:)- the wolves from the sheep and that you will raise your children in the freedom of knowing the fullness of God’s grace, mercy, unconditional love in obedience to Him alone. Always joyful, always rejoicing, always gentle. Never anxious, always thankful, prayerful. Knowing the peace of God to guard their hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.
May God bless and keep His own and continue to grow us to His glory through the means He chooses.
Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you. Phil. 4:4-9 NIV
wow, thank you for your courage and vulnerability in sharing this! It sounds like your family forgives you easier than you forgive yourself.
I don't know you but it sounds to me like your home was a safe place. Obviously no parents are perfect and all parents make mistakes. I could be wrong but I am thinking that one of the differences between the homes that were more likely to result in broken kids than ones where things were more likely to turn out OK is whether or not the home felt like a safe place for the kids.
Even for a parent who realizes that their children were deeply wounded, God's grace is still sufficient to forgive and cleanse and restore. Thank goodness! It does call for humility to repent and reach out but indeed, there is no benefit in a parent carrying a load of guilt and blame. Ironically, (to use the term loosely) I think some parents prefer carrying that burden to simply apologizing and seeking forgiveness, which is sad.
PS did you have to spell-check "joie ‘de vivre" or can you spell that offhand? LOL
That was beautiful, Laura.
Laura, thank you for sharing. Your post gives me hope for a friend of mine who is caught up in these kinds of teachings (from a different source than ATI) and seems to have some of the same traits (critical, judgmental, control freak, "trophy children"). I believe that God is not finished with her or her family yet and that He can still change her heart and do a radical work in all of their lives.
WOW!!! That's all I can say! What a blessing!
Hi Ray,
My husband and I have been viewing the media on embassyinstitute.org for several months now. We have been praying about sending in an application to join ATI also. Anyway... May I ask if your parents are the late Sam and Ann Conway?
Blessings -
Courtney
Laura, Thank you for sharing from a parent's perspective. It is really hard to not live in regret about "wasted opportunities" of enjoying life and loving others. I think back to my courtship and wedding and how stressful it was between me and my mom because of the pressure of keeping up appearance certain standards. She did not want me holding hands after I got engaged because it might cause "an appearance of evil". Planning for a wedding should be one of the happiest times of a girl's life but it was a stressful and difficult time for me. I've moved on and am learning to live in grace. Like Paul, I am learning (slowly) to forget those things that are behind and reach for the prize of the high calling in Christ.
Matthew, I appreciate your perspective on the Joseph story. That story has always been one of my favorites and is a beautiful example of forgiveness. It is interesting that Joseph didn't just blindly "forget and forgive". He sought justice for the wrongs suffered and when they proved repentant he showed mercy. Seeking justice for the oppressed is Biblical. Joseph was not bitter towards his brothers but he did confront their wrong doing. I think this an often overlooked aspect of this story.
Seeking justice for the oppressed also seems to be an overlooked motive for many who write for this site. For some, it seems that simply accusing the writer of bitterness and walking away is much easier than thoughtfully considering what an author has said and what, if anything, can or should be done about it.
Having written many articles for this site myself, I for one do not wish to see Bill Gothard tarred, feathered and paraded through town. I do, however, want him to see the error of his ways and acknowledge his complicity (even if it was unintended and unforeseen) in causing damage to so many young people. And some older ones as well.
Then, like Joseph, I'd be among the first to extend him mercy.
In the meantime, I have forgiven him for his offenses (I've committed far worse) but I consider him to be an untrustworthy and unsafe individual. And just like in any other unsafe situation, I am compelled to speak out and warn others of the danger.
RyanR,
Well said. This is one of the biggest problems that I've run into with my parents. I call it "institute speak". Whenever something is brought up that has in some way hurt or affected my life it doesn't matter what is said or the heart and motive behind it. It's always dismissed as my own issue, downplayed as not being as big a deal as I'm making it out to be, or turned back on me accusing me of sin. That's when I began to learn about narccisism because they view themselves as being above the standard that they hold others to even when they may be living well below it. As a kid you just take it but as an adult who sets standards for myself to be judged and accused by someone who is just as flawed as I am, it's just insulting and it makes it very hard to maintain any type of relationship.
A thought that really challenged and convicted me when I heard it tonight:
"No one has ever offended you more than you have offended God."
-Joni Erickson Tada
"Jesus paid it all. All to Him I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain, He washed it white as snow!"
Ryan, You nailed it. I also do not wish revenge on BG or anyone else but I do desire that they are awakened to the error of their ways and admit their wrong, seeking to change. Ray, I have experienced first hand the "institute speak" from parents and it is not fun. It's so frustrating when people view themselves as being above the standard they place for everyone else.
(: Matthew I am Canadian. French is a language we have a rough working knowledge of even if we don't speak fluently. "Joie ‘de vivre" - joy of life is a phrase we don't use in English. I also use a lot of Amharic words and phrases from my childhood: words and phrases that just don't have an equal in the English language. I'm sure that is true of many people who use languages or bits thereof to express themselves.
Thank you, those of you who replied to what I wrote, for the kind words. I am sorry for the hurt your parents (those that apply) still cause. I have several young ATI friends whom I knew from our years with the organization. Some of their parents still don't see anything wrong with ATI or anything to apologize for. I am finding that forgiveness of those who recognize no wrong doing on their part, a difficult thing. While we have every good intention of forgiving them it is something that needs to be revisited periodically and reaffirmed. It is so much easier to forgive someone who recognizes the wrong they have perpetrated and you can weep, hug, and console each other. I am thankful there is a site like this and the expression and healing it offers.
Thank you for this article! I've been reading this site regularly for several months now, though rather confused about my interest in it since my family was never a part of ATI, etc. However, after reading this it clicked. My parents created a similar sort of environment. Different standards and rules, but the same narcissist attitude. I too am learning to live by grace not merit. Thank you for sharing your experiences. You are ministering to non-ATI folks too. :)
this was a wonderful article and i love to see the responses made and the lives changed. may the Lord use this site in future to open peoples eyes to the real truth!!!! honesty really is the best policy!!!
I came into contact with a family who are involved in and practice the principles of IBLP and school their children through ATI.
I lived with them for three months so although I thought they were lovely people I can only sum up the father in one word, Narcissism!
Their eldest daughter and I fell in love but through a series of events I had to leave and she was going to leave as well. I had a place arranged for her but we were found out. they took her away and brainwashed her and it has been almost a year since I have had any contact with her. We both believed God gave us His blessing although because of all the teaching regarding emotional purity and courtship the girl i love, Jacqui; is a prisoner in her own home.