As a teen growing up in the Advanced Training Institute (ATI), my parents would not have said I was compliant.
But I was.
My parents decided to homeschool me the summer before I entered seventh grade. Four years later, I ascertained it was most certainly not in my best interest to continue. I fussed, argued respectfully, and appealed passionately, even going so far as to secretly call a lawyer and discuss what it would take to be “emancipated” from my parents.
I didn’t go through with it.
Years of Basic Seminars, Knoxville conferences, Wisdom Booklets, and even Character Sketches books and definitions had drilled into me that the wishes of my authority—even the unspoken ones—were “God’s will.” For me to forcefully step outside of that was to willfully choose God’s second best, and possibly even incite God’s judgment.
As a female, I would always be under a man’s authority.
I was taught I would never be my own boss.
I would never have a right to say “no.”
I wanted to go to college. My parents wanted me to go to Headquarters and work as a Family Coordinator. I had no right to say “no.”
At 23, I was still living at home under my dad’s authority, preparing to perform for a concert and a wedding. The music director at my church called and requested that I take on more responsibilities. I declined. She wasn’t my authority and I was already so overwhelmed I could barely breathe. My father overheard the phone call and insisted I call her back and say yes. I acquiesced.
Following this incident, a wise, older mentor told me that continuing to obey my father was bringing him dishonor by revealing his controlling nature. This could not go on forever. I needed him to not be my authority, so I didn’t have to say yes.
I moved out into my own apartment.
I can hardly look back on that time without tears. The memories of freedom take my breath away. Insignificant, normal decisions no longer caused a panic. No one was going to blame me for a sibling’s rebellion if I chose to wear pants rather than the dreaded split skirt to play volleyball. No one was there to tell me that the volleyball game was inappropriate for women in the first place.
The freedom was short lived.
Four months after I moved out, a guy I had grown up with asked to court me. It was a whirlwind as I already knew him so well, and four months after the courtship began, we were married.
I had an authority again.
My husband wanted us to attend his IFB (Independent Fundamentalist Baptist) church. I hated it. I did not feel at home there. I begged. I sobbed. I pleaded. I appealed. But that was where “we” ended up placing our membership. I cried silent tears in the shower every Sunday morning.
Because I had made a vow at an ATI counseling seminar to never use medical birth control, I had three children and three c-sections in three years. The night my third child was conceived I was terribly ill and had a fever of 104 degrees. However, “…the wife’s body is not her own, but belongs to her husband.” It would have been a sin to say no, even though I wanted to scream, “Can’t you see I’m sick?!!!!”
When my third child was two months old, my husband was asked to take on a volunteer project as a ministry. Struggling to even survive the demands of three children under the age of four, I begged him to say no. I pleaded. But he was my authority, and it was, ultimately, his decision. He was absent 18 hours a day, 6 days a week, for an entire year. I was trapped in a nightmare, raising three toddlers that I would never have “chosen” to have so closely together.
14 years after we became members at church, a series of God-orchestrated events took place that pried my husband’s heart away from that church. I felt as though I was living in a miracle. My mother-in-law had already left the church we were at and had begun attending an even stricter IFB church, complete with a Bob Jones University board member, a pervasive theology of gender as destiny, and policies encouraging all-skirts-all-the-time. My husband was excited to visit.
I finally found my “no.”
I looked him in the face and said, “If you attend that church in the morning, you will go alone.”
I was 36 years old.
I didn’t realize at that moment what a huge thing it was for me. In the weeks to come, I was startled to find myself saying “no” to anything and everything, even stupid stuff, just because for the FIRST time in my life, I felt I actually could.
I could say no, because it is a fundamental human right. NOT a right simply afforded to males.
I am still working on assertiveness. My “no” is generally so reticent that people hardly know that I’m serious.
About a month ago, I was speaking with my mother about the differences of opinion held by my husband and I on “standards,” especially those not mentioned in Scripture. She encouraged me to teach my daughter to use a Strong’s Concordance, and use it to go to ‘war,’ but then, “when your husband refuses, you must teach her to submit as unto the Lord.”
I felt like I was floating.
I was suddenly 17 again.
It was like I was outside my body, saying to her the very things I had said so long ago.
But it ended differently. I told her that I would not teach my daughter to submit like that. I will give her an out every time. I will show her exactly what it will take monetarily to survive on her own. I will encourage her to fulfill her dreams and make her own decisions when she is 18.
I will tell her what Mr. Gothard withheld from us: Sometimes obeying your “authority” carries consequences far more permanent than a temporarily irritated father.
Even if I disagree with the decisions she makes, they will belong to her.
The catch about deferring decisions to authority figures is that while they are happy to make decisions for you, they will not be responsible for the consequences. Chances are, those same people will either tell you, “You chose this,” or “God did this.”
I, alone, struggle with my lack of education. People expect from me everything they expect from someone with a degree, but because I depend on hard work rather than training, it takes far longer to prepare.
I, alone, deal with the ongoing physical and metabolic damage sustained by having three pregnancies and c-sections in three years.
I, alone, struggle with the ongoing difficulties incurred by poorly single-parenting my children when they were infants.
Jane Douglas, a former homeschooling mother, has this to say to parents:
“That compliant 25-year-old looks like and sounds like an adult, but she has a 12-year-old soul. Like the tiny feet of Chinese girls crushed and tightly bound in rags by well-intentioned parents to prevent their healthy growth, that child may be the victim of a sort of ‘soul-binding.’ This disastrous mistake may have doomed her to endure both a crippling emotional agony and an ongoing rage that her mother could dare to insist that such a violent and abusive act was perpetrated because of love.”
I will probably struggle with saying “no” for the rest of my life. I will struggle because I was taught for so many years that I was a being with no rights at all.
If you are the victim of such soul binding, I pray you find your “No.”
I pray you find it before the sum total of your life consists of living out the consequences of someone else’s decisions.
Leisl Fredric’s family joined ATI when she was in seventh grade. She gave one “mite” to legalism in the form of the first thirty years of her life. She wears the second around her neck and is grateful to have discovered that the God of grace does not expect to find it in the offering plate.
July 31, 2024
Thank you so much for sharing this. I can identify in so many ways with your story. So thankful for God's grace.
Wonderful.
YES! ATI needs to relabel itself as a lighter version of Islam. That's all I could think of reading this story, and I've thought it many times before. Women aren't just a 'weaker vessel', they are NOTHING. They are chattel in ATI.
In ATI, the teachings are akin to this:
Never say no to anything anyone asks of you, because to say no means you are esteeming yourself more than others, which is pride, which is obviously an effect of the root cause of secret sin (LUST) in your life, which must be rooted out through lengthy prayer and supplication in order to bring to light the sins which you were previously unaware you had to begin with.
Never say no to your parents because they are God's representatives of His authority in your life. To speak, live, exist in any form that is even slightly different they choose for you is to step outside this chain of command God has ordained for you, to move out from under 'the umbrella of protection', and God will near-immediately judge you, usually in some fatal car accident or accidentally stepping on an infected needle from a drug user.
Never say no to your parents if you are the first born child in your home because anything that brings you to the opposite side of any issue with your parents is obviously "Satan seeking out the first-born". If you say no, you will give Satan dominion over you, and all your siblings after you, and it will be your fault when all their lives are ruined forever.
Never say no because exhaustion only comes to those who lack faith for the strength to complete the tasks God has given them through authorities in their lives. And exhaustion comes from having double mindedness in your service, which is an effect of secret sin (ALSO LUST) which must be rooted out through lengthy visits to the prayer closet until your previously nonexistent sin is brought to revelation to you by God through his authorities in your life.
Never say no to authorities because God will curse with rebellious children, and curse you and your spouse to many miscarriages and judgements throughout the rest of your life, unless you burn your CS Lewis books and secular music cds and cleanse you house and spend many weeks in prayer and fasting to have God reveal your root cause sins (Really, its only LUST)that you must confess in order to lift His judgement upon you.
Nearly every teaching in ATI contributes to the spider web of Spiritual Abuse that hands abusive parents and authorities a great big book of "biblically justified" rules with which to dominate and domineer their children, even far into the 'children's' adulthoods.
What is the morbid fascination with Lust and other sexual things? Sounds like somebody was repressed much? Bill should've gotten married, but I doubt he'd want to defile his body with such a repulsive lesser creature like a woman. (although that didn't keep his hands off pretty girls anyway.)
His insistence that sex in marriage only be procreational and never simply recreational would seem to espouse the idea that it was an act of self-sacrificing purpose rather than a gift for mutual enjoyment and giving. The Romans and Greeks also saw intercourse with their wives as only biologically necessary, and curiously enough, they also had relatively low opinions of women.
Kiser, that is EXACTLY what we were taught.
"ATI. Helping families raise [perpetual] children."
This resonated with me deeply. The years wasted entrapped in a Gothard lifestyle have left me soul weary and desperate. My 30 year marriage is a dysfunctional mess. The best I can do right now is to teach my young adult sons to respect women as people and my girls to respect themselves first and foremost. My husband seems incapable of change & I'm convinced that Gothardism causes a lot of men to have narcissistic personality disorder. How churches ever endorsed this crap is beyond me.
"soul-binding" - thank you for sharing such an apt word picture of what we went through. Thank you. I'm so glad you're finding greater freedom and healing now. XO
Thank you for sharing this! I believe it will help many who have been so oppressed by Gothard's teachings to find freedom in the real Jesus of the Bible!
Against all odds...YOU DID IT!!!!!!
YES YES YES!
Oddly enough, I feel as proud of you as if I truly knew you.
CONGRATS!!!!!
Karen
This is the best article I've read on RG...at least the best for me. :) My husband came out just as I was finishing it, and asking why I was weeping. The 25-year-old with a 12-year-old soul...oh my.
Thank you for this beautifully written piece that so aptly describes the poison fed to us by these teachings.
Soul binding! How true! I too finally found my "NO!" Without boundaries, who are we as a person? We know the enemy comes to steal, destroy, and kill, and he has quite a tool with the teachings like we got in ATI. May this website help to expose all that crap. (I never use that word, but it is fittting in this case).
"Without boundaries, who are we as a person? We know the enemy comes to steal, destroy, and kill..." Yes. This reminds me of the proverb "He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls." It is hard to rule you own spirit when you are violated. Then it gets worse, you become like a city without walls. And without walls, the enemy comes....
Almost by definition when you say NO it is keep a boundary from being crossed.
Laurie, have you discovered the parent recovery site of RG?
YES!!! This resonated so deeply with me. I struggle with this almost daily, and my husband (thank God!!) doesn't understand it. He doesn't understand why I almost have a panic attack when a store is closing and he is still meandering around, he doesn't understand why I start bawling if he disagrees with something I want, and he really doesn't understand why I have such a hard time TELLING him that I disagree with him! ANYTHING that I perceive to be an "authority", (and that's pretty much anybody but myself) I feel like I have to submit to....I can't tell them no...I can't disagree...and when I try to, I feel like I just committed the unpardonable sin...Thank you for writing this. I don't know if I have the courage to share this yet, but I want to so badly!!
Leisl, I was wondering how your husband has responded to the changes you made.Is he respectful of them or is he pushing against "the new you"? I was just wondering, if you're comfortable sharing, how the family dynamic has been affected. I'm struggling very much with this right now myself.
Thank you for the kind comments.
The emotional nakedness required to tell this story left me feeling tremendously vulnerable.
I questioned whether the "gory details" were really necessary.
I am so grateful that it resonated with others.
In response to your question, Laurie, the years since I found my "no" have been the most difficult years of my marriage. My husband was also raised in ATI, and has not completely left the mindset. He truly believes he is responsible before God for everything our family does and becomes. Worse still, he believes himself responsible to some degree for what I think and believe. IBLP taught that a godly marriage would be an example to the world by being "One Flesh". This concept morphs into a desperate need to control on the part of the husband, lest his spiritual leadership be called into question.
For the sake of my children I am compelled to consistently call attention to the default "standards" (horrific remnants of 3 years at HQ and 8 years in ATI) my husband clings to that aren't spelled out clearly in scripture. When we twist scripture to mean whatever we want, eventually it means nothing but what the most persuasive personality in the room suggests, regardless of what the Holy Spirit intended. I generally present my case, and deal with at least a week of cranky avoidance by him as cognitive dissonance does its work. Those can be very dark days, as I am never sure if this will finally be *the* argument that makes him decide that I am no longer trustworthy with his children. From within that darkness I sometimes question if it is worth it. Being the supportive pharisee wife that silently smiled and nodded was a whole lot easier.
But facing it head on is what God calls women to do. It is my understanding that in Orthodox Jewish tradition, the Genesis account calls the woman the "ezer kenegdo" or "the one who helps by opposing". The idea is that of two boards leaning against one another in order to remain vertical.
The only guarantee we have when wrestling with God and demanding a blessing is that we will be changed. It may be that I will limp permanently.
But God sees.
He collects my every tear.
I pray that the end of the story finds my entire family dancing in fields of grace.
"But God sees.
He collects my every tear.
I pray that the end of the story finds my entire family dancing in fields of grace."
This line made me tear up a bit . . . it's such a beautiful picture and I think much, much closer to the heart of God than what we were taught in ATI.
I understand your husband wanting to be a responsible husband and father - and that is admirable. But it's heartbreaking to me as a husband and father myself to see the blindness that has overcome him where he's so focused on specks he's completely missing beams. For example, the night your third child was conceived . . .
I think some of the most poisonous fruit of ATI is how quickly a principle (one flesh) swallows up our humanity (you were sick and needed to rest and be cared for).
(P.S., I'm not judging your husband so much as the system that raised him.)
Thanks Leisl for kindling some hope for those of us at the end of our ropes.
Ooooh, this made me tear up. I've always been good at complaining and acting like I'm strong to say no, but I'm really bad sometimes.
You are such a lovely, brave woman. I am in awe of how you are finding your voice, and how you are using your voice in so many good, healing ways. You are simultaneously saying "no" to a misguided (to say the least) understanding of Scripture and gender roles, and you are using your voice here to provide hope to those of us who need to see what saying "no" looks like.
Many, many blessings as you continue to say "no" to those things that you must take a stand against. Who you are, and all that makes you YOU, is beautiful indeed.
Leisl, thank you for sharing this part of your life with us. It is huge to be so vulnerable publicly and I love you even more for being open and honest in an effort to help and encourage us.
This has really made me think back to all the wrong messages we, as girls, received growing up.
I remember when I first found my "No". I had been married 9 years and just had my third child. My then husband knew that after one child I wanted to be done. My depression was always worse while pregnant and my health suffered considerably. After baby #3 he assured me that we wouldn't have more - but would do nothing to prevent it. One day it hit me, he was playing roulette with my body and it was no ones fault but my own. For the sake of my three children I knew I could not risk another pregnancy. I honestly didn't even realize at the time how powerful this would be in my life. That being a wife wasn't equal to being a daughter.
The soul-binding article was amazing!
That's right. Being a wife is not the same as being a daughter. In Galations Paul contrasts the law and grace by using Hagar, the bond-servant and Sarah the FREE woman. ATI made wives into bondservants.
Yes, Tangent, so true!
I had never heard the term "soul binding" before so I did a google search and what came up was related to witchcraft and casting spells...hmmmm! I did not go to those sights because just reading the info below the results made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.
esbee, I wonder if the author was referring to "soul-binding" rather as a metaphor drawn from the practice of foot-binding - that as young girls' feet in some cultures were (or sadly still are) bound and deformed and constrained, so a child's soul can be constrained and not allowed to grow in a healthy way.
I would say I have seen and to some degree personally experienced that phenomenon of someone seeming like a compliant, mature young person who is "old for their age" but who has a steep learning curve in life later down the road; something like the 12 year old soul being referred to in that quote in the article.
I know the author was referring to "soul-binding" rather as a metaphor drawn from the practice of foot-binding
BUT it is interesting to note that the term is already used in withcraft.
I googled it as well out of curiosity after you mentioned your findings Esbee, (Partially because I'm always hesitant to believe people's claims that xyz IS witchcraft.. many innocent things have been labeled as witchcraft by someone who simply did not understand what they were seeing), but in this case, I certainly agree with you. I did not click on the links either, what little I could read was appalling, and my curiosity was certainly satisfied.
Your husband sounds like a jerk. Sorry. What about treating your wife like a precious object, and CARING for her? I walked far, far away from religion of any kind (raised conservative Christian, spent 5 years in the Gothard camp, went to Bible college, finally woke up to reality - s**t like this essay is about definitely was a contributor), but even if you are, for some reason, going to remain in it, you ought to follow its own guidelines. The bible repeatedly tells christians to care for one another and that husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her. Forcing sex on your wife while she's extremely ill because you can't control yourself is hardly honoring and cherishing her as "the weaker vessel" and treating her with reverence (1 Pet 3, Ephesians 5). My husband would never, ever treat me like that, and he's an atheist. He respects me as a human being. I am not his possession. He is not a slave to his sexual urges. He has a mind, and reason, and uses them to control himself when needed (such as when I was healing from a traumatic childbirth and needed several months to recover). Coerced sex, even in a marriage, is RAPE. I feel very, very sorry for you. The bible has a lot to say about self-control (fruit of the spirit and all that), about temptation, about not hurting others. Yet these Fundamentalist men throw all that out and focus on "let the wife be subject to her husband". NONSENSE. I am now a humanist, the focus of which is compassion for others.
Please stop referring to abusive, controlling legalists as fundamentalists. The closer a person is to the true fundamentals of the faith, the more grace filled and loving he/she will be.
Selfishness, legalism and self-righteousness are antithetical to the gospel and to the person of Christ, and nothing is more fundamental to Christianity than these. Thank you!
Lori, thanks for dropping by.
Many people feel that Christian Fundamentalism actually started as something different than it has become today. The beginnings of the movement and the formal usage of the term are described briefly here: http://www.patheos.com/Library/Christian-Fundamentalism.html.
"Fundamentalist" or "Fundy" has become a pejorative term that is often employed to mean "more legalistic than I am." That said, there are branches of Christianity that self-identify as Christian fundamentalists. It is not disrespectful to either them or to the gospel to honor their wishes and refer to them as such. The term IFB or "Independent Fundamental Baptist" is almost necessarily used negatively on sites like this, but there are many churches that self-identify as such - it is how they wish to be known and they own the term with pride. Figures like Jack Hyles or Jack Schaap sometimes loudly internally criticize each other for not being "fundamentalist" enough.
Certainly, grace, faith, hope, love and such are truly fundamental to the good news of Jesus Christ, antithetical to the selfishness, legalism, and self-righteousness that we as people so often bring to the table. But as a descriptive term, there is a long history behind the word "fundamentalist" and its usage is not likely to disappear soon.
Hi Lori,
I appreciate your concern. I think it's worth noting that many other religions besides Christianity also proudly use the name "Fundamentalists," because they believe themselves to be closer to the fundamental truth of their religion, like Islamic fundamentalists and Mormon fundamentalists (think Warren Jeffs). It is no insult to them to be called this, but from those who hold to the same faith but are not quite as radical, they will clearly distinguish themselves as NOT being a fundamentalist. An average Mormon will distance themselves from the now incarcerated Warren Jeffs, and say that the polygamist totalitarian commune that he created in Arizona was so far afield from average Mormonism, it's practically a different religion (and it's true---it was). And yet it has the same roots in the same Book of Mormon that all Mormons use.
All that to say, the term "Fundamentalist" is a widely accepted term to describe a belief to the far right of everyone else within that religion. Fundamentalists are called "fundamentalists" because they genuinely believe that they are only upholding the REAL truth of each religion: be it Christian fundamentalists, Islamic fundamentalists, or Mormon fundamentalists. Each one believes they are absolutely correct and gladly claim the term "fundamentalist" as a badge of honor. But most people outside their circles do not believe the title to be a badge of honor, and will use it to communicate how extreme a person's beliefs have become. Both "insiders" and "outsiders" use the phrase equally, but it means something completely different to each one of them, regardless of what religion is being discussed. That's how you'll find the term being used anywhere in the world within religions, including Christianity. Does that make sense?
And to clarify, I agree with you that you'll find many beautiful, loving people within fundamentalism in any religion. Many are just trying to live out their beliefs correctly, and follow the lifestyle their leader demands (for Christians, this would be Scripture/Jesus). However, in all religions, fundamentalism also attracts extremely abusive, manipulative and controlling people like magnets, because within the average ranks they will always find those sweet, genuine people who are happy to follow a leader who claims to speak their truth, regardless of what type of abuse the leaders lay upon the people under them (and often it's a gradually escalating abuse). For those who are in Fundamentalism, that is an issue they will always have to be aware of, and be willing to speak out against. While there is abuse in any level of religion or Christianity, fundamentalism over-emphasizes obedience and under-emphasizes acting/living different than the rest of those within it, even to follow the Holy Spirit's leading. But speaking out against abuse, manipulation, and control in leaders is often easier said than done because conformity is so strongly emphasized within fundamentalist churches and communities, and people who speak out are often berated, verbally abused, or shunned by abusive leadership.
"The catch about deferring decisions to authority figures is that while they are happy to make decisions for you, they will not be responsible for the consequences. Chances are, those same people will either tell you, “You chose this,” or “God did this.”"
That is so huge.
Taking off of this - something that may not sound comforting at first is: "you will stand before the throne alone, not hiding behind anyone else." But that actually became a very freeing and life-informing truth for me. It is true that neither my parents nor spouse nor anyone else will stand before the throne and give account for me. The fact that God will speak to me directly about my own life choices actually empowers me to step up and make the decisions I need to make with that end in view.
"actually empowers me to step up and make the decisions I need to make with that end in view." This is so true for me. I wish I understood this as a young adult. I was 35 before I was began living this out.
"very freeing and life-informing" This is also so very true not just for myself, but I find it liberating for my kids. I wish I had been able to introduce this truth with them in their "coming of age" teenage years. They are all adults now. Even so, now it is nice to be able to let them know that I respect their relationship with God and reassuring them that I should be the the least of their concerns. I remind them I will not be around forever.
That really IS so huge as was already said. The people that gladly told you what to do would also gladly let you bear the consequences with no remorse on their part. Sad.. so incredibly sad. And yet, what pride that sense of ultimate authority must breed in some individuals. Which is the root of all evil.
[…] it can end. At any point in this circle of abuse, you have the ability to stand up for yourself and say no. You can mentally or physically walk away, and retrain your thought […]
Soul binding that is the best way I've ever heard it put.
I am curious why after moving out you entered into courtship instead of dating. Was this still just not being free from the past yet?
I only attended one Basic Seminar, my husband attended two, we have IBLP materials. I'm not in the mainstream. From my experience, the teachings on living inside God-ordained authority structures (and not only from this ministry, but from others) has helped me tremendously! Coming from a feministic background growing up and having a naturally strong personality, understanding biblical authority has blessed my marriage and helped us to raise pretty balanced kids (so far). Without understanding that I am to submit to my husband in final decisions, our marriage would be a mess. His temperament is more passive than mine. The wonderful thing in our marriage is that my husband is a very godly man, a true, loving servant-leader... so I fully realize that I have it very differently than those wives who suffer due to controlling, legalistic husbands. I am sharing with gratitude for my marriage, and also deep empathy for those wives who suffer. Example of working out the issue of authority in our family: With our kids (one is a teen now) -- they have always been encouraged to share anything they want to with us, and we have always tried hard to intentionally spend time building our relationships with them and seeking out their thoughts on life... yet, we all must speak respectfully to one another. And, whenever I blow it (I don't very much, but there are times when I do speak in anger), I am characterized by asking their forgiveness and commit to try harder. And, when they blow it, it is brought to their attention, and at times, they are disciplined. Thankfully, their hearts are tender towards the Lord and us, we're doing well, but it's not perfect, of course...we persevere in his grace.
Anonymous, It's obvious you want to be a good Christian wife/mother but I urge you to Read the BIBLE and throw out your IBLP materials! You may think you're all doing alright as you said and that it has somehow helped you, but that stuff is nothing but false doctrine. It will creep in when you don't know/realize it and hurt not only your family and marriage and each individual child but your relationship with God as well as their relationships with God. That stuff is so interwoven with Scripture that it almost sounds biblical but it's NOT. God gave you that strong personality and it can be an asset to your marriage. You children can be blessed by it. don't smother it. God knows both your and your husband's personalities and He's got a great plan for you together using HIS WORD NOT GOTHARD's. I am praying for you and your husband, but also for your children.