10 Comments

1. 

   esbee December 16, 2013 Reply

   Because of grace I can feel love and sympathy and even loss for the wife and sons in the recent death of the Christian pastor who treated my husband so shamefully many years ago. In fact, I would go so far as to even call it bullying. This man had a fantastic personality and great sense of humor. He was much loved by the people in his church and many wrote touching stories about how he helped them and the wonderful things he has done for the church. He had bladder cancer and passed away at a relatively young age, just 54.
   So for all those wonderful things about the man, there was a time many years ago when he picked on my husband during music practice, telling him he sang too loud, turning down his instrument so that it was barely heard and verbally putting him down. On those Tuesday nights my husband would come home looking like he had been in a bar room brawl. And every Tuesday night I had to calm him down. And why we never confronted our church leaders has to do with the Gothard teaching of authority and "touch not God's chosen." Anyone who was a leader in our church was God's chosen and you never go against authority or God would certainly get you for it. We did talk with one of the 3 church pastors who said he was going through the same thing and not to make waves, but to have faith and endure. So my husband carried on, faithfully attending music practice, enduring the bullying on practice nights and singing on Sunday morning. We only left when the church split. Here are my thoughts on what happened. (For some of us, there always has to be a why.)
   The elder pastor (father of the man who bullied my husband) wanted his son to be music minister and eventually pastor. He worked it so that happened. Nothing personal against my husband- he was just not in this man’s agenda, so he got rudely pushed aside. No sorry, no explanation, no church vote, the senior pastor made the decision and it was done. So to make the long story short, almost 30 years ago a man came to town with an agenda. His son was made music leader and eventually pastor. Now both are gone to their heavenly reward. My husband and I have not been to church in just about that long because we do not want to get involved in more agendas. It does not mean we are giving up God, we know He will never give up on us, and we get to experience another facet of a grace that has no end.

2. 

   RyanR December 16, 2013 Reply

   "Grace means that I am Beloved. Jesus looks at the messiness and brokenness of my life and embraces all of me. No matter how many times I mess up, Jesus still loves me unconditionally and forever. He sees incredible beauty, worth, and value in me."
   
   This! I never found this concept anywhere in the ATI curriculum and definitely not at headquarters or the Indianapolis Training Center. Instead it was the exact opposite . . . if you made a bad choice you would be humiliated in front of everyone right before you were summarily dismissed (aka sent home). There was no grace in ATI for the dumb things people do/bad decisions people make.
   
   In fact, I do remember one guy (in tears) asking forgiveness from the staff at the Indianapolis Training Center because he'd spilled bleach on the carpet. Thankfully, he wasn't sent home, but still. It was an accident, not a malicious action on his part. But the humiliation of having to get up in front of everyone to confess what he did and ask for forgiveness caused him such grief and anguish. That memory still makes me shudder.
   
   It's been nearly 20 years since I've been involved with IBLP in any way/shape and it has been a constant struggle to really believe that Jesus embraces ALL of me. Intellectually/theologically I know He does, but I still can have such a hard time separating the God revealed in Scripture from the "god" promoted by ATI.
   
   Thank you for the reminder, Victoria. Just what I needed this week!

3. 

   findinghope December 17, 2013 Reply

   beautiful

4. 

   Gabriel January 3, 2014 Reply

   This are so many encouraging thoughts here, God bless you, from somebody who's made many mistakes and is now trying, by the grace of God, to recover from religion. Liberating to be able to be yourself, without fear, before God.

5. 

   Janice January 6, 2014 Reply

   The negative consequences from ATI are mostly a result of bad doctrine and a false gospel of works. (One might debate whether Gothard himself was deceived or a deceiver, but the results were the same.) This is the same gospel that is taught by every corrupted church and sect in the world. Any gospel that preaches other than Christ and His propitiation for our sins is a false gospel. It is unfortunate that so many of my generation fell prey to this, but this was a result of our own upbringing in gospel-lite evangelical churches, in which doctrine and bible teaching was deficient. The antidote for this is to become involved in a real bible-teaching church, which, sad to say, is growing ever harder to come by.
   
   While I have always desired the best for my children, the truth is I have not always known what that meant, either for them or for myself. If I had it to do all over I would seek to give my children more knowledge of scripture, more godly examples in my own behavior and more emphasis on serving rather than being served. Sure, I hope they experience much happiness, but I much prefer - for them and me – genuine holiness (not works righteousness).
   
   I pray that my children know the joy of walking with God, and the truth is, that path is not one of never -ending 'happiness'. 'Happy' is such a glib, Hallmark kind of word. Certainly I wish for my kids many of the happy moments in life - an unexpected letter, sea-salt chocolate, baby's first smile, a fresh snowfall. These, and so many other delights are part of the blessings God graciously bestows upon us, but they are not the things that really matter. They are the bonuses, the extras; I hope that my children enjoy many of them, but even more do I want them to experience the mercy and grace of God.
   
   The fleeting happinesses of life can be pleasant, and we tried to give our children as many of them as we could, but they are not essential. They are not what I am most concerned about my children having. They are rather to be sacrificed than the knowledge and grace gained by abiding in God and His Word, and accepting the true message of His gospel: that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, none can merit his approval, and the sacrificial death of Jesus for our sins imparts to us the benefits of His righteousness, which is life everlasting. Then, secure in our knowledge of God’s all-sufficient grace and never failing love, we will know the joy unspeakable and full of glory that God intends for us, which far surpasses temporal happiness.

6. 

   Peggy R February 13, 2014 Reply

   I recently found this song and it is simple just like God's grace to us. It has been very comforting and healing. http://youtu.be/PANiveIKVX0

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     Peggy R February 13, 2014 Reply

     It's called "Come to Jesus" by Chris Rice

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       Beverly February 13, 2014 Reply

       I love, love, love that song!

7. 

   Patrick Jayne February 13, 2014 Reply

   I got in the car last night, and this song came on the radio. Gets me everytime.

8. 

   Vera Berry February 20, 2014 Reply

   Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. (1 John 5:1-4 KJV)