Narcissistic Apologies

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Narcissistic Apologies

Narcissistic Apologies

7 May 2014, 06:00

I recently read yet another statement by a well-known Christian leader confessing sin and asking for forgiveness. It was one of those apologies that leave you with a bad taste in your mouth. I would say that it was a narcissistic apology.

The difference between the narcissistic apology and a real apology is the center. In the center of the narcissistic apology is the offender saying, “I am hurting because of this.” The real apology sees the victim in the center and says, “You are hurting because of this.” The difference is empathy. Just like always, the narcissist doesn’t care about your pain, just his/her own.

The purpose of a narcissistic apology is to divert attention away from the offender. Your knowing and accusing gaze is extremely painful. You see too much and too well. Under that scrutiny, the abuser is laid bare and vulnerable.

Apologies aren’t always used. Some will attack in anger. Others will blame the accuser or a third party—anyone else. Some will admit to lesser evils, trying to keep your attention away from the truth. Some will claim that you simply don’t understand the truth. Some will create bold lies. Whatever it takes to get you to stop.

The narcissist needs you to turn the light somewhere else. The offender cries for relief, pushes for forgiveness, begs for mercy, bargains for reconciliation. Just, please, make it all stop.

If intimidation, negotiating, and pleading don’t work, then you might hear the narcissistic apology. The one that admits to nothing except those things that can be interpreted as positive for the offender. He was too dedicated, too focused, too strong a leader. His intention was always good. The hope is that your attention will center on the image of the offender, the one that is superior and righteous. The purpose is still to push the attention away from the offender’s heart.

A real apology, something seldom heard, admits the validity of the victim’s perspective. The repentant one doesn’t try to point the light away from the painful exposure because he trusts that his exposure will help the victim. Someone who offers a real apology also wants the pain to end, but not at the expense of the victim.

The narcissistic apology is part of our culture and certainly is not limited to narcissists. Many of us learned that type of apology from our families and friends. It offers little and solves nothing. We have become used to hearing it from politicians and public figures.

When we receive it, it does not satisfy our hearts and often leaves us feeling somehow guilty. A part of us knows that we have not been heard or valued. The burden on us has somehow become greater, rather than less. We experience confusion, even anger. Yet, we are not supposed to continue feeling anything negative because the offender has apologized.

The effective narcissistic apology moves your attention to your confusion or anger or pain or guilt . . . and away from the offender.

And let me add one more thing: the narcissistic apology almost always ask for forgiveness in some way. This puts the burden back on the victim. “Will you forgive me?”—sounds a lot like, “There, I said it, now can we be done with this?” If you say yes, then everything is supposed to be back the way it was. If you say no, you are the bad guy. Then you may hear, “Well what do you want? I apologized!”

Understand that the purpose of the narcissistic apology is not to admit the offense and lessen your pain. The purpose of the narcissistic apology is to get you to shut up.

Dr. David Orrison has been a pastor for over 30 years and is now the Executive Director of "Grace for the Heart," a ministry dedicated to proclaiming the sufficiency of Jesus Christ for all aspects of the Christian life. Dave has served in the Evangelical Free Church and in the United Presbyterian Church, and he holds a Ph.D. in Theology from Trinity Seminary. Dave has unique insights into the struggles of what he calls “performance spirituality,” as he has worked extensively with people who are unsure of their relationship with Jesus because of the burden of legalism and the hopelessness of a “works-based Christian walk.” David has lived in Loveland, CO for 25 years and is happily married to Alice. They have eight sons. David blogs on a regular basis at http://graceformyheart.wordpress.com.

All articles on this site reflect the views of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the views of other Recovering Grace contributors or the leadership of the site. Students who have survived Gothardism tend to end up at a wide variety of places on the spiritual and theological spectrum, thus the diversity of opinions expressed on this website reflects that. For our official statement of beliefs, click here.

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57 Comments

Lynn May 7, 2014 Reply

Great article, David. This certainly clarifies the nature of the apologies we have heard recently.
Paul VA May 7, 2014 Reply

I feel like you nailed it, Dr. Orrison. 2 Cor 7:10 contrasts godly sorry with worldly sorrow over sin "For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death." When an apology is laced with self-promotion, minimization, and justification it is just digging in deeper.

I believe our psyche's (even in healthier people) get desperate when our sin is exposed. Our IQ seems to double as we desperately scheme to create an alternate universe where we aren't as bad as it seems we might be.

It seems that if our belief in grace is not robust and tested that the crisis is even greater. In Gothard's system grace was not foundational or core. It was wimpy grace. If we keep ourself and others convinced that we aren't broken then a wimpy minimal amount of grace seems adequate...but when the light comes on the darker sides of things we are left in crisis. Convert or cover up...these are the only options. The appearance is that cover up is still a big part of the game here as you have helpfully pointed out. Gothard's grace is wimpy but thank goodness God's is great.
- GuyS May 7, 2014 Reply
  
  Paul, I love your line "Our IQ seems to double as we desperately scheme." I could not have said it better.
- Dave May 7, 2014 Reply
  
  I agree with Guy S. This comment is well stated. It makes sense, doesn't it, that we would be more focused and more committed when we feel threatened? It also makes sense that we would be more ruthless and less caring. Interestingly, narcissists are often very intelligent people.
Sue May 7, 2014 Reply

This explains so well why I have a hard time forgiving my mother. Her apologies are more explanations of her bad behavior and an attempt to put some of the blame on me. If only I could understand her pain I would understand her good intentions when she screamed that I was such a disappointment to her that she wished she had never had children. After all she was promised that if she did the right things she would receive my unquestioning obedience. It was because she was frustrated that my Dad wasn't a better spiritual leader. Maybe someday I will understand the stress she was under. It was because she never felt loved.....etc. ad nauseum .
'Megan' May 7, 2014 Reply

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes! And I'm not even thinking about Gothard, this is exactly what a narcissist does! I've been on the receiving end of this, it's pretty much awful! You can't have a meaningful relationship with a narcissist, they keep everyone at arms length, no-one can get too close or they'll be discovered. (Not that that was the point of the article, it's just the thought that popped in my head.)
GuyS May 7, 2014 Reply

Very good article David. It is so good to see words to put to our experiences. For years many of us have lived in a "no talk" turmoil with oppressive guilt and manipulation. It is so very cool to be able to have words to discuss and analyze so the process of healing and understanding takes place.

Thanks again for the helpful insights about narcissistic madness.
alison May 7, 2014 Reply

This is going to sound sexist, but I think it is hard for men to genuinely apologize. They are usually defensive in nature, and I refer to them as Clintonesque apologies or man-pologies (no offense intended). One exception I have seen in my life is when my brother apologized to me for something he said. It took 3 years, but his apology was so genuine, it gave me my life back. In contrast, there has been no apology forthcoming from my ex-husband, even after 30 years, not even some vague "I'm sorry you were hurt, but..." I would love to see that happen. The closest he came was telling my daughters he was sorry he wasn't there for them, but someday they will understand that he did what he had to do. Even 20 years ago my girls recognized him as a narcissist. I know how much a genuine apology would mean to these women who were so victimized by BG, and I want for their sake for this to happen.
- Dave May 7, 2014 Reply
  
  In general, our culture does not support men who are empathic. The literature says that 75% of narcissists are men. That may not be entirely true, because I suspect that women are more covert in their narcissism, but it is one of those statistics that sounds so right few will question it. In any case, there is still a pressure on men to exceed their peers and narcissism is a coping mechanism that serves that purpose. In other words, our culture still does not value the man who knows how to connect with the hearts of others in mutual relationship. We value the man who stands apart and above.
  
  I used to chuckle when so many men came out with the gift of prophet. Of course they did! But surely we don't need that many prophets, do we? Well, that's another topic.
P.L. May 7, 2014 Reply

Wow, it's as if you know my pastor...were there for his attacks, his me-centered apologies, his claims of repentance, his finger-pointing at others, and his constant retelling of how he himself was the hurt one.

It's like a narcissist recipe. Thanks for helping me continue to understand what happened to me.
- Dave May 7, 2014 Reply
  
  PL - I am particularly concerned about those who have experienced this in their church. If you would like to write to me directly and share your story and/or questions, I would be happy to try to offer some encouragement and insight. Write me at the email linked to my avatar in this comment. Obviously, this offer is open to others as well.
  
  Dave
Mary Olive May 7, 2014 Reply

Hi,

I'm wondering if the author is inferring that Bill Gothard is narcissistic or has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I am also wondering what sources the author used for his article.

I've included a synopsis of the published definition, symptoms, causes and treatment with the sources from Psychology Today. They are what I've used to better understand those terms where I work.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder

"Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder generally believe that the world revolves around them. This condition is characterized by a lack of ability to empathize with others and a desire to keep the focus on themselves at all times."

Definition

"Narcissistic Personality Disorder involves arrogant behavior, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration-all of which must be consistently evident at work and in relationships. People who are narcissistic are frequently described as cocky, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding. Narcissists may concentrate on unlikely personal outcomes (e.g., fame) and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment. Related Personality Disorders: Antisocial, Borderline, Histrionic.

"Narcissism is a less extreme version of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Narcissism involves cockiness, manipulativeness, selfishness, power motives, and vanity-a love of mirrors. Related personality traits include: Psychopathy, Machiavellianism.

"Narcissists tend to have high self-esteem. However, narcissism is not the same thing as self-esteem; people who have high self-esteem are often humble, whereas narcissists rarely are. It was once thought that narcissists have high self-esteem on the surface, but deep down they are insecure. However, the latest evidence indicates that narcissists are actually secure or grandiose at both levels. Onlookers may infer that insecurity is there because narcissists tend to be defensive when their self-esteem is threatened (e.g., being ridiculed); narcissists can be aggressive. The sometimes dangerous lifestyle may more generally reflect sensation-seeking or impulsivity (e.g., risky sex, bold financial decisions)."

Symptoms:

"•Reacts to criticism with anger, shame or humiliation
• Takes advantage of others to reach his or her own goals
• Exaggerates own importance
• Exaggerates achievements and talents
• Entertains unrealistic fantasies about success, power, beauty, intelligence or romance
• Has unreasonable expectation of favorable treatment
• Requires constant attention and positive reinforcement from others
• Is easily jealous
• Disregards the feelings of others, lacks empathy
•Has obsessive self-interest
• Pursues mainly selfish goals

"Also, narcissists are usually physically attractive and charming at first glance, so they may have advantages when they first meet people (making a sale, getting a first date, gaining popularity). However, the long-term outcomes for narcissists are usually quite dismal, especially socially (e.g., long-term relationship difficulties). On average, levels of narcissism drop quite dramatically by age 30."

Causes:

"Causes are not yet well-understood. Genes play a significant role (approximately 50%), but the unique ways that environments shape people (e.g., peer interactions) also influence narcissism. Related hypotheses include:

1.Heritable narcissistic traits emerged in part due to natural selection for promiscuous sexuality.
2.Some people develop into narcissists because of self-reflection on largely heritable traits-"I am attractive and therefore I deserve special treatment."
3.Cultural factors may bring-about narcissistic qualities (e.g., watching narcissistic role models on TV; adverse, war-torn environments."

Treatment:

"Clinical treatment is rare because most narcissists avoid therapy. However, narcissists can learn to be more caring about others, and narcissism can be reduced when these individuals are included in social groups.

Psychotherapy may be useful in getting the individual with narcissistic personality disorder to relate to others in a less maladaptive manner.

(Additional information by Nicholas S. Holtzman)

"Sources:
•American Psychiatric Association. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Revised.
•Center for Substance Abuse Treatment. Assessment and Treatment of Patients with Coexisting Mental Illness and Alcohol and Other Drug Abuse. Treatment Improvement Protocol (TIP) Series, No.9.
•National Institutes of Health - National Library of Medicine
•Brad Bushman, W. Keith Campbell, Del Paulhus, Richard W. Robins"
- Dave May 7, 2014 Reply
  
  Mary Olive - I am not making the statement that BG is a narcissist. I have had no opportunity to examine him and do not hold the kind of credentials that would make my diagnosis of any value. You will notice that I did not mention his name, nor that of any other. In fact, I generally encourage people not to make that diagnosis. Instead, I think we should simply observe behavior and call the behavior what it appears to be.
  
  Psychological diagnoses are made on the basis of observation and, presumably, interview. Saying that someone is paranoid, for example, is a diagnosis. Saying that a behavior is paranoid, however, may simply be observation. Pushing a label is usually unnecessary and unhelpful, unless that label leads to prescribed treatment. But holding a person accountable for certain behavior is both acceptable and wise.
  
  In general, I appreciate Dr. Nina Brown's perspectives on narcissism. Her distinction between NPD and Destructive Narcissistic Personality is important and much more useful for those of us who have to deal with this in family counseling. I have studied and taught on narcissism for over ten years and have counseled with hundreds of people. Brown's approach brings the subject of narcissism to the real world. You probably won't find her PhD thesis, in which she sets out her perspective, but you can find several popular books by her on Amazon.
  - Mary Olive May 7, 2014 Reply
    
    Dear Dave,
    Dave-
    Thanks much for your response. I appreciate your explanation. Since I work as a registered nurse on an inpatient mental health unit at the local regional medical center, I am used to people being diagnosed. Personally, I prefer not to label people.
    
    I had noticed you didn't mention Bill Gothard's name in your article, but since this is a site for those recovering from his influence, I thought it was more than coincidental. Thanks for sharing your resources with me. I shall research them.
Guy Cooksey May 7, 2014 Reply

The prodigal son in Luke 15 still presents to me the model of true repentance and forgiveness. he approach his father in absolute humiliation even wanting to be treated as only a servant. No wonder the father forgave him so readily. True repentance solicits grace and forgiveness like nothing else. Do we see that yet with BG or DP? I don't think so.
LynnCD May 7, 2014 Reply

Good article! May we all be truly humble when we seek to make things right or to ask for forgiveness.
Diana S. May 7, 2014 Reply

How many good points are made in this article! One can really see how the smoke and mirrors are used in making a narcissistic apology. Just another form of manipulation. This made me curious to know how the word apology is defined, so I looked it up in the Oxford English dictionary. I'm afraid of violating copyright if I copy the entry here, so I will summarize as best I can. Interestingly, only the third of the three relevant meanings describes apology as a way of expressing regret and making reparation. The others mention defence (the British spelling, of course), vindication, justification, explanation and excuse. The word comes from the Greek ἀπολογία [apologia] meaning defense, a speech in defense. The word is formed from ἀπό [apo] away, off and -λογία [logia] speaking. Right now I'm pondering the contrast between the words apology and confession, the latter more common in the church.
- Dave May 7, 2014 Reply
  
  Diana,
  
  I wrote another article on narcissistic apologies a couple of months ago. It was more focused on the private apology and covers some of what you mention here. In it I suggest what a real apology should sound like. Here's the article:
  
  http://graceformyheart.wordpress.com/2014/02/21/narcissistic-apologies/
  - Diana S. May 8, 2014 Reply
    
    Thank you for the link. In the present article, I particularly like this sentence: The narcissistic apology is part of our culture and certainly is not limited to narcissists. I believe we're all at least tempted to act in this way at some times. Not just people, but organizations also behave in this manner.
Joy May 7, 2014 Reply

Thank you for posting this. Although I know it was related to a specific subject, I also find it very helpful personally in dealing with the confusion of receiving narcissistic apologies and gaining awareness to be rightly focused on the pain of others when I am the one who has committed the offense. Very well written and succinct. Thanks again!
Brumby May 7, 2014 Reply

LOVE this article. Unfortunately, reading through the post-it notes on the coordinating image included in this article for me was similar to reading through the Sunday comic strips. A very serious matter, yet can seem so hilarious since I'm so familiar with these lines (i.e. "I'm sorry you made me do that" or "I'm sorry you're so sensitive"). Good information, thanks.
- "Emee" May 7, 2014 Reply
  
  Brumby, since you mentioned comic strips :) http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2007/03/08
  
  Great article, Dave, thanks!
Trivium Pursuit » Blog Archive » The narcissist doesn’t care about your pain May 7, 2014 Reply

[…] “I recently read yet another statement by a well-known Christian leader confessing sin and asking for forgiveness. It was one of those apologies that leave you with a bad taste in your mouth. I would say that it was a narcissistic apology…. Read the rest of this article here on Recovering Grace. […]
Anonymous May 7, 2014 Reply

Excellent article! This sounds so much like the ATI church we were involved with for over a decade. We used to notice that the 'healthy' people left. When the leadership interacted with you, even though they provoked or set up the situation, we (and others) always came away looking like the perpetrator. We used to say it felt like we had "been down the rabbit hole" (alluding to Alice in Wonderland). These behaviors fit the leadership to a T. Reading all these posts has been so healing.
Krista May 7, 2014 Reply

Thank you so much for this well written article. What you've shared is healing and validating for those who have been abused by those who continue their abuse by narcissistic "apologies". Thank you.
Betty May 7, 2014 Reply

Thank you, Dave and RG. There is a lot of narcissism out there. I am grateful to you for helping define the behavior so we can identify it.
Leo McNeil May 8, 2014 Reply

This is a decent snapshot of what a narcissist does when they apologize. There is a real lack of understanding in the church about how sociopaths, psychopaths and narcissists operate. We tend to ignore psychology because the world treats these problems (the ones I've mentioned) as illnesses when they're really sin. There is a lot we can learn from modern psychology though when it comes to this sort of evil sinner. If we know what to look for we can protect ourselves both as individuals and as members of the church.
- P.L. May 8, 2014 Reply
  
  One of the functions of science (even the 'soft' ones) is to describe and classify. I wish more churches, even if they quite legitimately want to include the concept of sin in their overall understanding, were at least willing to learn from the well-studied descriptions and classifications that psychology provides.
  
  Utilizing them doesn't mean a blanket acceptance of psychological theory any more than utilizing the description/classification of plants and animals means a blanket acceptance of evolutionary theory.
Samuel Lundmark May 8, 2014 Reply

Thanks for writing this.

This is, unfortunately, all too common in ATI/IBLP families.

I am sure it's not only ATI/IBLP, but I see so many families who have parents who seem totally incapacitated by the giant of narcissism (to be quite direct--pride) that it seems to me that this might be among the worst outcomes of the system.

This trait totally destroys relationships--even when both parties are "trying" (which can mean so many things). IBLP/ATI teachings seem to lead to this somehow. I suspect its strong support for unquestioned authority and image preservation at all costs tend to cater to the problem. In many minds, this end justifies the means even if that results in destroying family relationships and the image/name of others.

It seems to me that these issues can stem from a variety of sources a few being insecurity, desire to do and be right, and desire to not be found to be something we don't wish to admit. Reaons for some of that CAN be good while other can be evil.

Concerning the nature of sinful man, let's just admit it--we are sinful and in need to a Deliverer--Jesus Christ! Now, that we have accepted that fact, let's stop attempting to live as secular humanists (where the image of man and his achievements are the highest virtue) and rather embrace the fact that Jesus freely extends to us forgiveness and makes us holy. Then, we can receive His holiness and walk in it. It's not about how others perceive us--it's all about Jesus! It's about being set free from sin and death.

Narcissism is death--and not even death warmed over--just plain, old, stone-cold spiritual death.
grateful May 8, 2014 Reply

Ironically I came away from the Basic with a more true understanding of what it meant to ask forgiveness and seek true repentance (toward someone I had perhaps wronged or disrespected.)
- MatthewS May 8, 2014 Reply
  
  I believe it, and there is irony there indeed.
  
  There is a big emphasis in his teachings on searching yourself for any and all of the wrong that you have done and owning up to that and seeking to clear your conscience. The definition given in the follow-up booklet: "A good conscience is one that allows me to look every person in the eye knowing that not one of them can point a finger and say, 'You wronged me and you never tried to make it right.'"
  
  In that booklet, there are seven projects and a worksheet assigned to a person who wishes to seek a good conscience. Writing letters are forbidden as a wrong method. A number of common excuses are named and rejected, including "my sins are all covered by Christ's blood" and "it happened so long ago." Even if you consider yourself only guilty of 5% blame, you are to fully address your guilt "through the eyes of the one you offended." Also, you are instructed to "relive your offenses through their feelings."
  
  It also asserts, based on the story of the prodigal son, that true repentance means admitting "I have sinned," accepting new limitations, and not reacting when others test to see if it is genuine.
  
  While I have some major points of disagreement with the booklet, if Bill would simply embark on a project of following his own rules I think it would be a hugely good thing.
  - Guy Cooksey May 8, 2014 Reply
    
    This is the big problem Matthew. BG cannot look at all of the women (and in some cases-men) with a clear conscience. He violated them and then threw them out and let them pick up the pieces. His teaching has merit, but he personal example is beyond contempt. he is disqualified ad I am still waiting to see a true repentant man--in prodigal son--mode. My, how deceptive Satan is. Thank God we stlll have the truth in God's word--in the whole counsel of God's word--not convenient pretexts.
- Dave May 8, 2014 Reply
  
  One of the things Bill taught strongly was that you should ask for forgiveness after your "apology." I believe this is a control technique to put the burden back on the offended person. While it is very nice to have that closure, pushing for it is manipulative and unfair.
  - grateful May 9, 2014 Reply
    
    I guess I never really paid attention to that much detail. I was just under a tremendous amount of conviction at the time (at the Basic I'm alluding to) as the Lord was showing me how disrespectful I had been to my mom and dad in the past.
  - GuyS May 10, 2014 Reply
    
    Dave, I love this …control technique to put the burden back on the offended person… pushing for it is manipulative and unfair.
    
    I call it the “get out of jail free card.” Just whip it out of your pocket and read it, and the other person must graciously forgive and forget.
    
    A few years ago, a coworker and I noticed that one of the guys we worked with, would sometimes be “off his meds” and verbally abuse whoever happened to be close to him. Then the following day he would apologize and it would be all magically better.
    
    One day it happened to me (with the coworker in the same room.) The abuser began ranting at me (I was not walking on eggshells in his presence.) When he was finished, I told him not to worry about it. I told him that he would apologize the next day. He of course argued with me saying it would not happen. I reassured him that it would. I explained that the coworker and I had noticed the pattern. So we talked back and forth , me calm and him getting more and more upset and intimidating.
    
    Finally he was furious and practically frothing at the mouth. He screamed at me, “I WILL NEVER APOLOGIZE TO YOU GUY” and stormed out of the office.
    
    After that the was no more abuse from him. There were 5 men and 2 women who worked there. Finally after about 2 weeks he walked up behind me (I was working at the computer) and asked me in a sweet warm puppy dog voice, “Guy, are you still mad at me?” I said no, I was not mad. That was about all I could say. I was his supervisor and he quit abusing everyone at work. I was happy. It is now one of my “old man” stories
    - Dave May 10, 2014
      
      Excellent!
Mary Olive May 8, 2014 Reply

Dave,

Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents seems to be a popular book by Nina Brown. Available on Amazon, written in 2008, it has mostly good editorial and customer reviews. I appreciate the Nina Brown reference. Thanks a bunch.
- Dave May 8, 2014 Reply
  
  I have given away copies of that because I think it is very helpful for those who grew up in narcissistic relationships. Pressman's book on The Narcissistic Family is very good also. A little more scholarly.
TiaraLi May 8, 2014 Reply

My old non-ati pastor wrote me a letter that said (paraphrased): "I didn't do anything wrong, but I'm sorry that you think that other people who aren't me did the wrong thing by you." His supporters think he's wonderful and amazing for apologising to me.

Thanks so much for this article. Faith communities really need to learn a few things because predators really do flock to the clergy - religious people are seen as easy targets. We are to be wise as serpents while being harmless as doves.
susan May 8, 2014 Reply

Thanks, Dave. We had to leave our church of 7 years because of a pastor, quietly steeped in the IBLP ways which are largely unfamiliar ground in this area, exhibiting this very narcissistic behavior. Not until we--and extended family members who eventually saw for themselves--confronted the problems and received these kinds of apologies followed by silence did we begin researching into this topic.

His behavior, for those who could see it, was bizarre and made us think we were in an alternate universe for a while...none of us had informed experience with narcissists until then. But after we started reading up on it, we felt less lost though still estranged from our church family, most of whom still do not care to see anything amiss.

So, thank you for a good resource and continuing confirmation in our journey. It's a year this month I left the church.
Brad Shantz May 9, 2014 Reply

Interesting article. I have a question, though. If I do something wrong....something "small"...for instance, reacting strongly to a comment or action from a friend, and I come and ask for forgiveness, saying, "I know I hurt you when I said/did , and I'm sorry. I was wrong." No excuses.....no beating around the bush....no putting the guilt back on the other person..... If I follow that with "Can you forgive me?" Am I automatically being narcissistic? My entire focus is that I have "damaged" or "caused pain to" the other person, and I'm seeking reconciliation.

Your article makes it sound like forgiveness can never be sought. Reconciliation can never be initiated by the person who did wrong?

I agree with most everything IF the person was CAUGHT, and then gave a half apology, but what about real apologies intiated by the one who did wrong?
Dave May 10, 2014 Reply

Brad, you make a good point and I hope you will forgive a brief answer. ;)

When you come to someone you have offended and your purpose is to seek forgiveness, then I would say that your concern is for yourself. If you come seeking reconciliation your concern is for the relationship. If you come to confess your offense and acknowledge the pain of the offended, that you caused, then your concern is for your victim. As I read the Scriptures, I see no admonition to seek forgiveness, except from the Lord. There are examples of people asking for forgiveness from others, but no prescription. There is, however, admonition to seek reconciliation.

Now, in normal circumstances, when we hurt someone inadvertently, our language pulls these together. We don’t want to damage the relationship, so we ask for forgiveness. No, I don’t see anything wrong with that. However, the phrasing may be important. If I say, “I hope you will forgive me,” I am not attempting to put pressure on the other to make any statement. If I say, “Please forgive me,” I might be doing the same thing. But for me to say, “Will you forgive me,” and stand there waiting for an answer, is something different. Now I am putting pressure on the other person.

This actually worked well for me once. I was challenged by a couple in my church in front of a denominational leader. Every time they accused me of something, I listened and repeated it back to them and said, “I see how that hurt you and I’m sorry.” I was willing to let it stand there, but this leader had learned from Gothard that when someone says he is sorry, the other person is obligated to forgive, so he asked them each time, “Well, do you forgive him?” It got so frustrating for them that they gave up and left. Unfortunately, looking back on it now, I think that was an unfair and controlling tactic. Even though they said they forgave me, each time; they really did not. But they couldn’t say anything more.

I don’t want to suggest that the words are mathematical formulas and they can only mean certain things. To ask for forgiveness is not necessarily narcissistic. However, if the purpose of asking is to force the other person into a corner, I say that’s wrong. I have heard people say, “Well, I asked for forgiveness. Now the ball’s in her court.” The burden is lifted from the offender and placed on the victim. Sadly, this happens a lot.

You may well take issue with my first statement above, that your concern is for yourself if you seek forgiveness. If seeking forgiveness actually means ministering to the heart of the other person, then I understand and would yield. But it rarely means that in practice, particularly in cases such as those RG is referencing. Usually it’s just “c-y-a.”

This is a good question, probably one that others wondered about. What do you think of my answer?
- Nancy2 May 10, 2014 Reply
  
  I think of Zacheaus in
  
  Luke 19:5-8 "When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.
  
  7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”
  
  8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”
  
  When Zacheaus stood before Jesus he recognized his sin against others and desired restitution. I believe an apology, if possible, should exhibit repentance that incorporates restitution. I understand that it is not always possible. But restitution can be a demonstration of one's desire to see the injured restored. It places value on the one being apologized to. As one who, God forgive me, has hurt others I don't desire their forgiveness as much as I desire correcting the wrong I have caused.
- grateful May 10, 2014 Reply
  
  Dave, good comment. I know in times past I have sought "forgiveness" in a manipulative way and then other times been just broken and sought forgiveness because I had sinned - period. If they forgave me or not, I had to ask because my sin was really against the Lord (Psalm 51). There is a huge difference - true brokenness is when the "blueness" of a wound comes ...
Boundaries and Borderline Personality Disorder - Part I May 10, 2014 Reply

[…] the Corner(A page that tells his story from the beginning and has links to several of his articles)Boundaries! They’re not just for breakfast anymore! Borderline personality disorder (BPD) - (Ca… can’t remember the product the whole "not just for breakfast anymore" tagline comes from, but for […]
Sharon May 11, 2014 Reply

Here's my favorite narcissistic apology that somebody said to me once: "I'm sorry I'm not perfect." At first I thought they were being sarcastic, and maybe they were. But then I wondered whether maybe they were actually being sincere: they really do think they need to be perfect, and so it bothers them terribly to be confronted about anything they did wrong. Working through a conflict with this person is always a big hysterical mess because they get SO defensive; they don't seem capable of a simple, sincere apology. I think this person does have a sincere desire to restore the relationship, so I tend to overlook comments like this, but the egocentricity makes the relationship a challenge sometimes.
JT May 16, 2014 Reply

I am wondering if you might write a companion article about what might be called Narcissistic Forgiveness. I know someone who claims to have forgiven people who have apologized for hurts and offenses they've caused; then repeatedly rubs their faces in the offense whenever the need arises (often to escape scrutiny for their own behavior, or simply uncontrolled anger). This person behaves this way pretty much across the board with others and is a very difficult personality.

Anyway, withholding forgiveness is a problem all by itself--spiritually and inter-personally.

Thank you.
- Brumby May 16, 2014 Reply
  
  I second that. I have a hands off, long distance, zero tolerance relationship with my narcissistic parent. It's because I have absolutely no idea how to deal.
Tangent May 16, 2014 Reply

How about this narcissistic apology; "Excuse me for living!"?
Lee May 17, 2014 Reply

Narcissistic apologies, predatory behavior and pedophilia go hand-in-hand. I just read this post today, and I thought it was one of the most succinct description of behaviors that are often impossible to describe, like the behaviors of Bill Gothard towards those innocent girls.

Please, let us continually keep the victims of Bill Gothard in our prayers. He is as vile as the Catholic priests who hurt innocent children too.
Lee May 17, 2014 Reply

Dear Dave,

I truly appreciate your posts. I met an ATI family yesterday who still plans on attending the Sacramento conference. I told her about Recovering Grace. This mom has a very close friend who is not a member of ATI but who was abused by a sexual predator when she was young. When this woman read Bill Gothard's letter of "apology", she told the ATI mom, "That is exactly the kind of apology that you can expect from a predator." By God's grace, this woman has worked on the wounds that her predator inflicted on her as a young girl so that she is cognizant enough to spot a predator in Bill Gothard. But many adults still walk around wounded. A friend suggested that I visit a site for people wounded as children by adult predators. It is www.letgoletpeacecomein.org My friend works with adults who were sexually abused as children and has a passion for the wounded. Please visit www.letgoletpeacecomein.org and look for the little video. Be prepared to shed some tears. Please, may Recovering Grace always keep its vision: Helping Those Who Could Not Help Themselves Because They Were Under the Influence of a Very Sick Man.

Let us pray for the wounded.

God's peace,
Lee
miscellany | georgianne May 30, 2014 Reply

[…] ~ And speaking of narcissism, Narcissistic Apologies […]
Monica Sharman August 26, 2014 Reply

Thank you so much for this. You help me put words to what I cannot articulate. Recently I have been spending much thought on false apologies, especially from leaders.

In case your readers would like other insights on false apologies, here are some I found:

1. From Susan Wise Bauer's Introduction to her book The Art of the Public Grovel:

"Apology and confession are not the same. An apology is an expression of regret: I am sorry. A confession is an admission of fault: I am sorry because I did wrong. I sinned.

In the last few years, public figures have apologized with increasing frequency. But these apologies often serve as red herrings, drawing the eye and ear away from the missing confession. "I got heckled and took it badly and went into a rage," comedian Michael Richards said in 2006, after hurling profanities at black patrons in a comedy club. "I'm deeply, deeply sorry." There was no admission of wrongdoing here, merely a description of the evening's happening's along with an apology. "My intent . . . was to tell what happened on the mountain as accurately and as honestly as possible," journalist Jon Krakauer wrote, at the end of his best-selling memoir, Into Thin Air, "and I apologize to those who feel wounded by my words." This is not confession, but rather apology as self-defense."

2. This post on meaningless vs. meaningful apologies:

http://www.luke173ministries.org/466803

3. These 6 characteristics of a true apology:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-dance-connection/201212/you-call-apology-0

And now I am bookmarking your article as well.
Sandy December 12, 2014 Reply

Thank you for your article Dr. Orrlson! One year ago, I made a decision to divorce my husband of 33 years following the realization, 2 years prior, that he had had a sexual addiction and at least 2 affairs in 2011. Who knows how many others there may have been; He never confessed to anything that I didn't discover or uncover. During the time we attempted reconciliation, I took a wait and see attitude. I journaled everything! I was also paying our household expenses and he was creating debt, living in a fantasy world and talking about "what a great testimony we would have some day" and about "getting back into ministry." Late in 2010 when I sought help and some sort of answers from an exceptional counselor, for why my marriage and life was so chaotic, I would be confronted with the knowledge by this professional that he has a narcissistic personality. This man, a minister for most of our marriage was "loved" by the masses, mostly women, I might add, and mistreated his own family behind closed doors! His disposition was childish; always insisting that he be the center of consideration and attention. I have my own issues and have been in a Christian Based Recovery program for my codependency for the past 8 years; I was brought up to be a good wife, mother and "take care of" or "fix" messes or problems. However, I never cheated on him or even thought of such. I lived a life of purity and served my God as best I could. I believe with all my heart, God saved me from this abusive, manipulative existence! I Praise Him for it! As I began to take healthy steps away from this man, he panicked and worked so hard to draw me back into his bubble. I had become wiser, more knowledgable, and read about this personality disorder; I knew the "charmer" would emerge! I also knew he would try to change and rewrite history with all the church friends we had made through the years! I realized I had to break complete contact with him, forever! In time I realized as much as I love and care about some of his family, I would even need to separate from them as well; after all they are his family and loyalties should not be challenged. We have adult children and so it was possible, but certainly not easy! My life has been REALLY wonderful this past year! I have peace and joy beyond anything I could hope or imagine!
In the meantime, my ex found another nurturing soul fairly soon after the divorce. I know this only because my children are navigating this issue with their Dad. The woman has a history of being with abusive men. She is smitten with him and cares for his needs like a doting "Momma". The enmeshed, enabling family members have welcomed her in with wide arms. You see, in their eyes, I am the reason the marriage failed! This version is "I could not forgive and extend grace." I am saying this doesn't hurt but I made the choice I did for a very reason and stick behind that come what may, no matter who thinks whatever; I do not have control over other folks thoughts, and I know of the distortion of the Narcissist; He is very convincing! But if there is anything I wish I could say to good women out there seeking love and affection, I would say, "Look out for the one that appears as the good guy...that sweeps you off your feet, the gentlemen, and professes love and adoration too quickly. Take time to get to know someone and make sure that the behavior, over the long haul, matches what they say! And if he always has this sob story of how others mistreated him...consider there is likely another side to that coin! Beware...very aware!"
I am genuinely happy for folks who find stable, healthy love! However, there is something to be said for true inner peace and comfort in one's own skin! Thank God I have found the secret of being content and don't need a man to validate me!
- Elizabeth D December 12, 2014 Reply
  
  Wow, Sandy - I don't have anything of much importance to say here, but I had to mention how closely my story mirrors yours. Up to a point, at least; my narcissistic husband still lives with me. I've been the primary breadwinner for over 25 years, and the sole one for quite some time now. I know all about the reconciliation attempts, the emotional drain, the accusations; also the great counselor, and even the journaling - it helped me a lot to validate what is normal vs abnormal, real vs fabricated. Although still a work in progress, I've tried to reclaim the sanity that he has worn away at and almost depleted me of over time.
  
  I hope you've discovered Dr Orrison's blog. It is a huge blessing to me; I especially look forward to his Friday posts, although I've never actually told him that. (So if you're listening, THANK YOU!)
  
  I am estatic for your peacefulness and thank you for sharing your story. I hope better days are ahead for me, too.
Deborah April 29, 2015 Reply

Wow...just talking to psychologist about this today. Sorry and I forgot are his 2 most often used lines.
Keri Kilpatrick July 14, 2015 Reply

Interesting. I noticed this in the recent apology by the Duggard brother for his sexual misconduct. I don't remember his exact words, but I did find it odd (and sad) that he said he went to his parents and sought help because he knew that his behavior would lead his life down a bad path. His words suggested concern for his own life path, not concern for the girls he violated.

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