My story is about a leader maintaining a double life for decades and then demanding to pay for his deeds with words and tears. He is outwardly sorrowful that his words and favor are no longer valid currency.
My parents were regional and state leaders in the homeschooling movement for years before we joined the Advanced Training Institute (ATI), and my father served many rotations as a church deacon and elder. In homeschooling and church circles he was well liked and respected, a warm and jovial presence who put others at ease and smoothed complex situations with his down-to-earth diplomacy. He was a successful corporate professional, a savvy dresser, a caring father, a great deal-maker, and a serial adulterer for at least twenty-five years.
He first cheated on my mother in the late 1960s, within two years of their marriage, and would continue an intermittent series of short and long term sexual relationships with strangers and colleagues throughout the ’70s. His extensive work travel made it easy to initiate and conceal relationships out of town, but just before my birth in the late ’70s one of his local affairs was discovered. He had hidden his extramarital relationships carefully, but my mother had found occasional evidence that my father always successfully explained away. When undeniable evidence of his local affair surfaced, my mother followed the teachings of the day by standing with her husband in a show of submission and solidarity, loving him and believing in his repentance, walking hand in hand with him through his workplace where many knew of his affair with a coworker. My sister was younger than ten, and she remembers not understanding when a woman called the house and soon hung up, and the hushed tones and tears that followed. I was born in the immediate wake of my father’s repentance. Growing up, I was told that around the time of my birth my father, a Sunday School teacher, had a dramatic conversion experience and announced his newfound salvation to his startled adult Sunday School class at the Methodist church.
My parents soon hosted a home church of a more conservative denomination, a church that grew into a larger congregation and changed to a different denomination. By 1983 they were homeschooling, though we wouldn’t join ATI until the early ’90s. Before and during ATI my parents were leaders in an active homeschooling community that was more Evangelical than fundamentalist, and placed a high value on education. Even after we joined ATI, my mother supplemented our curriculum extensively, providing me with a very good education by ignoring the ATI advice of the time that Wisdom Booklets should be our core curriculum, not just a supplement. I began traveling to ATI conferences, courses, and volunteer opportunities, and the cracks in my parents’ marriage began to widen in ways that were visible to me but hidden from the outside world.
I was spared most of the isolationism and strictness that characterized many ATI households because much of the ATI mindset ran counter to my parents’ sensibilities, yet circumstances left me mostly in the company of parents whose marital strains I did not understand, and whom I consequently tried to “fix” using the formulas I’d learned through ATI. They in turn seemed to attempt unity through trying to “fix” their teenage daughter. The only child left at home, I felt caught in a constant round robin pairing off my mother and me against my father’s alleged shallow carnal values, my dad and me against my mother’s alleged puritanical craziness, and my mother and father against my alleged rebellion. It felt like sometimes I was the golden child, sometimes I was the nearly hopeless reprobate, and sometimes we were all just folks, without the extremes. I loved going to ATI training centers to meet new people and to get out of the pressure cooker. The training centers were a different kind of pressure cooker, but one where I could be a new person. It would be nearly twenty years before I realized that the things I was taught in the ATI youth programs were not the same things my parents were taught. In training centers, Bill Gothard pushed harder and harder to “take the young people farther” than he could our parents, urging ever greater and more extreme “commitments to God” that were actually commitments to Gothard’s personal house brand teachings.
In the late ’90s I caught Bill Gothard’s eye at an ATI training center, and he recruited me to travel with him and work at IBLP Headquarters. Gothard had several conversations with my father, both on the phone and in person, as he pressured my parents to release me to serve at Headquarters. My dad conversed with another ATI father who had served at training centers and seemed to suspect something was amiss with Gothard’s behavior toward favored young female students, but the other man seems to have not yet understood that the behavior was grooming and predatory. It was still more than a year before I would learn not only of my father’s history of serial infidelity before my birth, but also that his affairs had continued on and off well into the ’90s. It was nearly fifteen years before the other ATI man would learn the extent of Gothard’s misconduct with ATI students.
Among the women I know and know of who were singled out by Gothard as teens, each has at least one narcissistic parent, or a sexually abusive family member, or both. Gothard probably easily identified my father as a narcissist. I now wonder whether Gothard, with his lifetime of counseling experience, picked up on signals that my father was also promiscuous and a habitual liar, and mistakenly thought I was sexually abused at home. Whatever the communication exchange, my father was persuaded. My father was a sophisticated businessman, usually an accurate judge of character, and an accomplished philanderer; he seems to have had every life tool to identify a predatory figure like Gothard, and yet he either didn’t see the situation for what it was, or saw it and thought it still a viable route for his daughter to get a desirable position. I went.
The summer after I returned from Headquarters, the dam broke on the family history. At first I could not believe it. It wasn’t that I refused so much as I could not process it as possible. The stories and news were so foreign to me. We had been a banner homeschool family, sensible, educated, devout, socialized, cultured, healthy Evangelicals, and yet here my father was at the center of lie detector tests, doctors persuaded to lie about venereal disease, experienced licensed marriage counselors snowed by lies for years, so many encounters and affairs that even he didn’t know the number (his estimates started very high and kept getting lower), and at least two abortions. Over the previous years, every time my mother had suspected that my father was lying again, my father had convinced me and others that she was paranoid, delusional, and held unattainably high standards for him. It was finally revealed that his double life sprawled far beyond her darkest suspicions.
So when you say that you cannot believe that Bill Gothard, wise and beloved teacher, is guilty of fifty years of extreme authoritarian spiritual abuse, at least forty years of sexual harassment, at least one case of criminal sexual abuse, and a lifetime of deceit, I understand.
The handsome, charismatic young man’s career takes off in the ’70s, but he lives it up a little too much, and his personal life nearly implodes at the end of the decade due to his own lies, threatening his livelihood as well. He does a little shamefaced apologizing to his lower subordinates, begins and aborts a private repentance program of cosmetic changes with his higher subordinates, spins the scandal to some of his colleagues as an overblown misunderstanding, winks at other colleagues about how quickly these delicate situations can get out of hand, and does all in his power to suppress exposure of his actions to any wider public. The dramatic revelations and events of the late ’70s are sealed in the vault for the next generation to know of only in distorted whispers of memory, and by the mid ’80s he has remade his reputation as a homeschooling leader, a Christian leader, and an all around top-tier salesman of his products and of himself. His young people are models of home education success. His finances are healthy. His name is respected. His counsel is sought. He is a crackerjack master of ceremonies. He’s the only one to turn to when your castles turn to sand. He is an excellent liar with airtight cover stories. But he is lying to a lot of different people, and every now and then, he slips up. His explanations are always reasonable, though, and if he has caused any misunderstanding or offense, he is terribly, terribly sorry. Just don’t cross him. If you question him, you will see a flash of the true man beneath the smile, a man you would be punished for ever referencing later. His memory will mysteriously drop actions and entire conversations while recalling each of your weaknesses and shortcomings with perfect clarity, and you must be confused if you remember things that he does not. Please, can you not see the strain that he’s under, and that he is trying so hard to help? Can you not see that he has given his life for you, and asks only for your love in return?
For a decade following the second wave of revelations of my father’s secret life, my father played repentance games. He would hold tearful conversations with one party to convince them to speak on his behalf to another. He would go to church and counseling and workshops and support groups, have an emotional breakthrough, then let it drift over the following months. He would move out of the house temporarily when asked, then build an appeal showing how allowing him to return home was the only reasonable course of action. He had spiritual breakthroughs that evaporated in weeks or days or hours. He would say and do whatever was necessary to return to the family status quo, then let breakthroughs and promises slip away, then once again do whatever was necessary to return to status quo, over and over, alternating rage and contrition.
My father is a very complex man, yet so much with him comes down to sexual attention, adoration, and money. He uses money for security and to control others. He uses flirtation and illicit relationships to emotionally feed himself. He needs public adoration to calm his fears of being inadequate and insignificant. It all seems so obvious now. Yet to those outside the inner circle, he is a heartfelt tragic man who lost his family for a few human mistakes. He has told friends that he was unfaithful many years ago, and that my mother just cannot let go of it or forgive him. He tears up as he speaks of it. He refuses to hear that it is not the decades of infidelity but the decades of constant deceit that have brought him to this point. He vocally mourns his semi-estrangement from his adult children, who have supposedly been poisoned against him by their heartless mother. He makes a great show of having forgiven her for this, even as he invents stories of her having tried to take money or influence from him. He declined to cooperate in the finalization of the eventual divorce, declaring that “Christians don’t divorce,” without commenting on how being a Christian didn’t seem to get in the way of his dating life during the forty-five years he was married. He declares, alternating between disgust and despair, that he has “paid and paid and paid” for his mistakes, and refuses to understand why the right combination of remorseful words will not bring back the family life that he asserts was always most important to him.
Bill Gothard has done the same, is doing the same, and by all visible indicators will continue to do the same. My father and Bill Gothard are not the same person, and their stories are not interchangeable, but their crisis management strategy is identical. He will confess to whatever is necessary in order to return to the status quo, pay whatever words he needs to pay, bow his forehead to the earth, apologize for whatever he claims to have forgotten doing that you so sadly misunderstood all those years ago, shed enough crocodile tears to deaden the lawn with salt, and when all around are moved to their own tears of compassion for him, he’ll look up and ask, So, am I back in yet?
I have seen this before. I recognize this dance that is a concealed attempt at transaction. He wants to use words, promises, token gestures, guilt, gifts, and even money to buy back… what? There’s no need to buy one’s own repentance. It’s not possible to buy back the damage already done to others. The demanded forgiveness is or would be freely given, not bought or extorted. So what does he want to buy? He wants to buy his old life back, with full honors and authority intact. This requires quieting the voices of those whom he has harmed, whether by discrediting them or by purchasing their forgetfulness. He’ll spend any words or promises he needs to in order to buy his former reputation and your current silence.
Bill Gothard, please prove me wrong. Show us that your repentance is unfeigned. Show us by publicly owning your power abuses and your deceptions, by acknowledging that the stories are true, by speaking of your specific abusive actions instead of vague generalizations of character failings, by acknowledging that you have used almost every person you have encountered in the past fifty years to satisfy your emotional needs or to build your own empire, and then declare yourself done with empires. Walk away from what remains of the empire forever. Then stay done. Do not attempt to resume a position of authority and honor. Do not teach and preach. Do not disciple. Do not publish. Do not build a new mailing list. Do not start new programs. Do not start a new organization overseas. Do not attempt to re-frame the situation as a referendum on whether people believe God can forgive you, or whether those you have harmed have forgiven you with suitable speed and gratefulness. Do not work the phones for support behind the scenes. Do not appeal to the IBLP board for reinstatement every six months. Do not call in your favors or cash in your secrets about others. Live the life of one who has changed.
If you are serious about repenting, if you are serious about following the steps of apology and making things right that you have so carefully prescribed for others, then you have the rest of your life’s work cut out for you. Ahead of you stretch years of listening to the stories of what you have wrought, of weeping with genuine brokenness and compassion without painting yourself as the victim, and of humbly seeking forgiveness with no demand or expectation of it, nor expectation of release from responsibility. It is a hard road, and one that does not end with you back in organizational wealth, power, or adoration, but it is the only road left that you can walk in integrity. It is too late for payments and transactions, but it is not too late to redeem the rest of the story.
Wow - what a parallel. Thanks for a well-written story.
It's unfortunate, but I understand what you mean about recognizing the dance; I do, too.
This represents the afterward;the time to reflect on the sorrow of the discovery that to the degree of your zeal for what you thought was purely an ideal worth investing in,comes the harsh reality,that you were a part of an unholy means,for an unholy end;casually cast aside,spent for a conscience less narcissist.There were so many hard hitting statements made in this article...here's one:"It's not possible to buy back the damage already done to others.The demanded forgiveness is or would be freely given,not bought or extorted.So what does he want to buy?He wants to buy his old life back with full honors and authority intact."New lives to ruin,spend,and aggrandize.We are also on trial but its a different trial.A trial to not be superficial,trivial,light,flippant.Though no one wants to consider life as having gravity to uphold only the meaningful things,yet the temptation will always be discarding truth for a temporal position,gratification,no identification with those tormented,rejected who didn't make it in the religious caste system.Last,but not least are the "victims" of the symbiotic need to make the show go on;"clean cut families""values centered Christian leaders","Patriots of conservative politics" to all go down that slippery slope.
Thanks so much for this article. I can really relate to your mom. I'm married to a narcissist and chronic liar but stayed through the years because of what I was taught through the seminars.I'm thinking the seminar attracted men with narcissistic tendencies and their enabling wives. I've heard it too many times to be coincidental. I wish the best for you and your mom.
Thank you. It is never too late to "bear fruit in keeping with repentance".
This is one of the best articles I've read on this website in the last year. I'm retired from homeschooling after 30 long years. I've seen much in my ultra-conservative home school community. The sentence below reveals much in what I've come to observe about those families attracted to Gothard's teaching. IMHO, it seems his teaching attract couples who are emotionally unhealthy, not balanced, and damaged in some way by their family of origin/life circumstances. Because these couples are seeking answers for their mutual brokenness, they are easy targets for "formula living." Their hope that following the formula will make everything turn out alright ensnares them. They stay trapped in the dance of performance rooted in fear. I see it over and over, this pattern... the insecure man shellacked in compensation behaviors sitting next to his enabling wife. Sadly, they're teaching this dance to their children to repeat.
"yet so much with him comes down to sexual attention, adoration, and money. He uses money for security and to control others. He uses flirtation and illicit relationships to emotionally feed himself. He needs public adoration to calm his fears of being inadequate and insignificant."
Momma Bear thanks for dropping by. Your excellent comment included, "...it seems his teaching attract couples who are emotionally unhealthy, not balanced, and damaged in some way by their family of origin/life circumstances. Because these couples are seeking answers for their mutual brokenness, they are easy targets for "formula living."
I was an ATI dad, (5 or 6 years) and I see the same things as you do. A few months ago, I said as much. But, I think you said it better. Looking back on it, it is so clear and embarrassing. It is hard to talk about and admit..."emotionally unhealthy, balanced, and damaged in some way by their family, mutual brokenness." It is less painful to agree with your description, than come up with my own. Thank you.
However, I think your next to the last line might alienate some. I am not going to try and convince you otherwise, but for restorative reasons, I personally would change it from...
"this pattern... the insecure man shellacked in compensation behaviors sitting next to his enabling wife." to
this pattern... the broken man shellacked in compensation behaviors sitting next to his broken wife.
For example, if my ex-wife were to read, "enabling wife," she might respond with, "ENABLING WIFE??!! I divorced him didn't I?? As it turns out, she does not read RG even after I recommended it. But if she ever did, it would only be one more thing I could never live down, if I did not have this disclaimer here, to defend her reputation. She was not an enabler.
The more important example would be those daughters/sons (here on RG) who would like so much to be reconciled to their mothers. I is not hard to see that it might be better to reassure their moms that they are not labeling or passing judgement, only recognizing BG's evil ability to snare "broken" people who were "seeking answers."
Likewise, it would be easier for us insecure men (I admit, many of us are insecure) to be called "broken." Some of us might have been wife beaters, others might have been incredibly immature, desperately seeking God in the wrong place. I personally like "broken." It seems less judgmental and more likely to bring about reconciliation.
Momma Bear, your observations of what you have seen are valid. You were not writing your comment with reconciliation in mind. You were just honestly sharing what you have seen after 30 years. I hope it is OK that I posted this. It is not so much me trying to correct/change you, as it is an opportunity to give my spiel about reconciliation to the daughters/sons here on RG.
Thank you again for your excellent comment. May your comment bring understanding and healing. Bless you.
I have tried, in all my comments on here, to defend my parents from censure. As I've stated several times, they started homeschooling for purely academic reasons, and my mother, who was a teacher, gave us a wonderful educational foundation. It was when we began to reach the teenage years that my parents started worrying; they had seen some spectacular (drugs, promiscuity, loss of faith) rebellions of other young people in our church circles, and they were wondering how to help us through those difficult years. Along came a family who seemed to have it all together, and recommended their secret - ATI.
I have since found out that my parents disagreed with a lot of Gothard's teaching. My father surprised me by stating that he had always doubted the assertions about evil rock music. They didn't realize that their children were swallowing everything ATI taught as absolute truth. In justice to them, they regularly exposed us to opposing viewpoints and helped us to develop our critical thinking; so they could not have foreseen that we would have been so hoodwinked by ATI.
I realize now, that ATI became our - my siblings and I - form of rebellion. It was our gang, our clique. We thought that we knew better than our parents about things like not getting into debt, or how faithful tithing will lead to financial success (my family struggled with finances). Not listening to rock music was our way of signalling that we were anti-establishment.
As Gothard told us, we were the best of the best. Looking back, I realize we were insufferably self-righteous, on the outside. Inside, we were tearing apart from the legalistic struggles to please God and be successful. Thank God, we all made it out safely and never want to go back again. I now see what wonderful, wise (joining ATI was a minor mistake in comparison to all the things they did right) people my parents are.
I was probably insufferably self righteous as an ATI student, but I was NOT using ATI as a "form of rebellion." A parent accused me of exactly that on more than one occasion, not understanding that I was doing little more than the minimum ATI had told me was required to please God. My parents, not having been hit with so hard a dose of ATI ideology, thought I was pushing it to extremes as a form of self expression and rebellion against them. To this day this accusation cuts, because it reminds me of how it seemed I was the wrong thing to ATI and the wrong thing to my parents at the same time, always too worldly or too self righteous when I was trying so hard and ineffectively to be neither. "Taking the young people farther indeed"-- taking them right over the edge of the emotional cliff.
My parents never accused us of rebellion. Among the things they did right was to gradually allow us more freedom in our decisions as we grew up; so if we chose to throw out our old tapes of innocent children's songs which might have had a backbeat, that was our decision. It is only in retrospect, that I realize that I was questioning my parents and thinking I knew better than them, just the way teens are stereotyped as doing.
To the person who wrote this article - thank you for this. It's important to recognize that Bill's behavior does follow a pattern commonly seen in narcissists, all the way down to being able to look people in the eye and act humble and sincere.
"He refuses to hear that it is not the decades of infidelity but the decades of constant deceit that have brought him to this point." This statement jumped out at me. The person does not understand the dehumanizing damage deception does to the other person's soul and the relationship. True repentance is possible, but the fruit of repentance you mentioned in the last couple of paragraphs must be there. Thank you for this thorough and effective article.
There is a great deal of insight in this article that should help those who don't understand the inner workings of this particular kind of sinfulness and the personalities that typically succomb to it. I believe these people attract each other, as in the adage "birds of a feather flock together." Thus the dance continues and even escalates in intensity. Thank you for posting this, RG.
Wow. This is hand-down, on of THE best things on RG. Thank you, so much, for finding the courage to share what must be a very painful memory.
First off, thank you for having the courage to share your family past! That takes a lot of courage and vulnerability. I know it's not easy. I come from a rather modest Christian home with a leaning toward the IBLP training being that my parents went to the seminar as did us children. And they tried to instill the concepts that they were taught there. Although we were not an official "ATI family" we were under a strict and modest upbringing influenced by IBLP. (I had a very judgmental spirit of others.) My father (unbeknownst to us) struggled throughout my youth with lust and other sexual issues which didn't come to light till I was a grown adult. When he finally did come out with all his issues (to us), it made a lot of sense as to why we as a family and children had so many struggles while growing up. They mostly all remained unspoken till now, and caused a lot of sorrow in our family. Lies and cover-ups plagued our family and tried to break us apart. Though I cannot say that I have completely experienced all that you have been through, I can say this, that I can somewhat relate. I didn't do their schooling or conferences etc... So I won't say I know everything you're talking about concerning Gothard. But, having said all that, I will say this. It's obvious that wrong has been been committed by this man, and that there needs to still be more made right. But this is what I'm wondering, what makes you the judge as to how, and when, and for how long? I don't say this to judge you either, seeing I haven't been in your shoes. But you say that he must live the rest of his life in true repentance. Who's to say or judge his repentance and how? Is it not God who is our Judge? What if he never does this, does everyone's true healing and recovery depend on him? I agree that he should follow what he taught! But you also said that what he taught was wrong. (with having been to the seminars only I speak from what he taught there.) I believe the principles he taught are all Bible based and true. They have helped many people including my family over the years, regardless of whether this man followed them for himself. These are not "Gothard" principles, they are God's, and they will stand true regardless of where Gothard goes with the rest of his life! But I will admit trying to force these doctrines on a bunch of unsaved children (which I believe we all were at one point) is an effort in futility! (But yet, God still demands us to teach them) When God's grace brings us to the point of salvation and ultimately repentance, only then do those teachings come Alive, and become an outflow of a truly converted person. The older I get the more I see that my parents are only human just as I. And my judgement of their decisions and mistakes begins to wane. I see that if I pass judgement on them for all that so greatly affected me, I must then judge myself by the same harsh token. But I am only human! If I turn the magnifying glass on myself I see a wretch, capable of all the same failings if not worse. I begin to see the hand of God working in and through me and keeping me, all through growing up. He used my imperfect parents in an imperfect world to raise up a child for His perfect purpose! I feel everyone grows up in a dysfunctional house. We all have issues, and problems. The sooner we see that only the Grace of God brings us here, then we realize the we can take no credit for where we are! I know we all have a sense of justice built in us. We serve a just God! He is alone our vindicator. The only way to finally move on and be free is through His grace. Is not this website "recovering grace?" Then let us accept that Grace and stop dwelling on the bitterness that holds us prisoner. How do we deal with this? How do we heal? How do we go on? Where do we go from here? Answer those questions for the hurting people on this site! What happens to Gothard is in God's hands. It always has been! Bashing him does not make us any better off, or help in our healing. Making mistakes of any kind does not prohibit us eternally from being used of God! Who are we to say how and when God should use him? Christ said, He who is without sins, to cast the first stone? Or how about, ”I did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” Maybe God is now calling him to repentance. He also says in Matthew that to whom much is forgiven, they love much! To this day my parents do not have a good relationship. Our family still struggles. I still have broken people in my family. I still struggle! But the great thing is, We Are Not Alone! We are fighting a winning battle! God is on our side! No more shooting down our wounded! Let's drop our stones and check ourselves. Yes, let us minister the Truth of compassion, grace, and reconciliation, so that we focus not on one who fell short of that Truth, but on the One who will complete the work which He began. "For He is faithful, Who promised, and also Will Do!"
Deborah O, Thanks for stopping by. Thank you for your large comment. I can only address one small part. Others i 'm sure will jump in. You have a lot of good questions. These are are some of the ones that should have an answer:
" How do we deal with this? How do we heal? How do we go on? Where do we go from here? Answer those questions for the hurting people on this site!"
Deborah, I think if you spend more time reading here on RG, you will see that many on here are processing on how to deal with this. Healing and getting on with our lives is a topic of scores of articles and hundreds of comments. Many people have invested a great deal of time on these questions. Please stick around. Thank you again for your comment.
Hi Deborah,
I would like to echo Guy S and suggest you read through the many articles and comments, and you 'll have a more complete understanding of this website. My comment to you is that I do not believe Bills principles are all Bible based and true. The chain of command is not biblical. We are all to trust and rely on Gods leading in our own life, not some artificial authority figure, although we are to honor and respect our parents. There are many articles dealing with Bills errant teachings, you might find them interesting
Gothard's standards are not God's standards. The standards that this man violated are adultery and lying which were repeated over and over again until it all caught up with him and his wife finally left. All you have done is made a judgement on the author accusing her of judging her father. The point is that Bill Gothard, like this father have not taken responsibility for their sin and want to blame others. That is the point of the author. You just want to blame the author for unforgiveness and judging her father while blowing off some serious immoral sin. On top of that, there are two murdered babies from abortions fathered by this guy. That is the sick stuff not the victims in the family.
If this man was truly repentant he would have done the following. He would have gotten a new job where he wasn't traveling and having all this opportunity because he was alone to be immoral. He would have put himself in some kind of therapy and started to look at why he became this serial adulterer. He would have stayed at home where he belonged. Instead, he kept the job and the traveling and didn't change at all the opportunities he had because he traveled for a living. He kept the job which gave him money and opportunity and prestige. He never following what Jesus said "go and sin no more"
Deborah, I will only address one question: why not forgive and move on?
I'm not sure you can say the author or anyone on Recovering Grace is notably unforgiving. I think it could be said that articles like this one examine fruit to see whether it is fruit keeping with repentance. With respect to false teachers, and oppressors, there is clear Biblical warrant to publically call out such wrongdoers. When they claim to be "sorry" and "repenting" it is surely necessary to determine whether there is fruit "in keeping with repentance". First Corinthians deals with an unrepentant sinner in the church. Paul publically calls for that man's ex-communication. Second Corinthians teaches restoration and reconciliation with the truly repentant.
How do we know whether there is repentance? Many articles on this site explain how narcissists and other abusive leaders often pretend repentance without truly repenting. Bill Gothard's half-admissions (I stroked hair, I hugged, I looked deeply into eyes, I played footsie with pretty young girls...BUT I had NO sexual intent) as well as this article writer's phony father, both seemingly fail to demonstrate fruit keeping with repentance. Mr. Gothard has not even devoted himself to reconciliation as he promised he would. Both men accuse their accusers. Both men blame their victims for failure to reconcile. Neither humbly awaits a softening on the other side but they demand it. Both men demonstrate arrogant hard hearts. Neither man accepts full responsibility ("I am so sorry that I am misunderstood").
Some have always questioned Bill Gothard's teaching. Most people trained in Biblical exegesis recognize his abuses of Scripture. Others correctly identify legalistic components of IBLP teaching. Your own story indicates the fruit of the teachings is not consistent with an evaluation that the teaching is all to the good.
We all have asked or are asking many of the questions you are asking. I encourage you to study the other articles here to better understand how we got here and how we might answer those questions. But I urge you to distinguish forgiveness, which is unilateral and reflects healing in the one who is forgiving, and reconciliation, which requires a restoration of relationship based on honesty, agreement on the facts, an abandonment of victim blaming, and either restitution or voluntary suffering and acceptance of loss.
Reconciliation is a restored state of mutual love and respect. These relationships are far from that state even if the victims completely forgive. The wrongdoers must show fruit keeping with repentance. And the Holy Spirit must restore love. Previously defiled and squandered, it's restoration cannot be demanded, but only received through Grace. (If I murder someone, God can restore that one, but I cannot and I cannot demand it, no matter how sorry I am. My mother always said the prisons are full of people who are sorry. Even in secular society, being sorry is not enough to restore the rights and privileges of a wrongdoer.)
Hello, Deborah!
There is a big difference between personal redemption and restoration in one's own life and a restoration to institutional power, authority, and trust. Forgiving a persona is not the same thing as granting them automatic trust, and masters of deception love to conflate the two. They play on tender, loving hearts by equating forgiveness and compassion with giving them whatever they want, twisting a Christian desire to forgive and restore into a mandate to put them back up on the pedestal they built for themselves.
Interestingly, people who demand this sort of not-just-forgiveness-but-full-deference-to-everything-I-want-and-and-deference-to-my-position-of-moral-and-hierarchical-authority restoration are often very stingy when in a position to forgive others. They tie a heavy moral burden of perfection onto others, while secretly living a life unfettered by those same standards. Others who fail to carry the burden are harshly shamed, but the originator of the burden, when discovered cheating on his or her own rules, is "only human" and merely "imperfect." Suddenly the rules have changed.
I'm not suggesting that such people should be forced to swallow their own bitter medicine, receiving the same harsh treatment and lack of forgiveness they meted out to others. I'm suggesting that forgiveness and compassion for people who spend decades of their lives behaving like this does not carry a spiritual mandate, or even suggestion, to restore the person to a position of trust or of moral and administrative authority. Indeed, in my limited experience, when a person who has been living a double life truly repents and changes, they do not seek a return to authority, and they know they must slowly earn a return to trust. They understand that they they do not have a right to manipulate for or demand any of these things. They no longer try to triangulate communication or accumulate allies or call in favors to hustle for the best deal. They focus on genuinely changing, which is hard work.
Back in the early 90s, Chuck Swindoll wrote an open letter about why Christian leaders caught in adultery should always be forgiven and restored in their spiritual life, but not necessarily restored to their former position. The gist of it was that the level of deception and deceit necessary to hide an adulterous/sexual affair(s) would make it difficult for many to trust in this person's leadership. He also thought that it would put a person with deceptive tendencies into a position to repeat the same pattern of sin.
Having seen this played out over my three plus decades as a Christian, and involvement in different areas of leadership as a missionary and church support staff, I believe that Swindoll was right. Forgiveness always, restitution when possible, but much care when the person demands the return of their position of leadership in a ministry or local church.
Thank you for sharing your story. It helps to see that Bill's cycle of sin and deceit is not unique. A friend was recently sharing with me about her own abusive upbringing; her father was another snake charmer that could convince anyone of anything. So it is not surprising (though it is sad) that Gothard continues to deceive some. I'm beginning to comprehend how integral deceit is to human nature and history, and appreciate much more that God cannot lie. It makes me look forward to Heaven even more!!
interesting story here about a much beloved comedian/actor, Bill Cosby and one of his rape victims who tells her story and why no one listened to her...may shed some light on questions victims and others have about the Bill this site is about.
ttp://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/bill-cosby-raped-me-why-did-it-take-30-years-for-people-to-believe-my-story/ar-BBduiQT
Even more interesting is my husband's reaction when i told him about the woman accusing Cosby of rape, how he was covered by his assistants and the comic publically calling out Cos as a rapist during his act and my husband said " I WON'T BELIEVE IT!" the tone in his voice defending the comic he loved for years and first heard on record the story of Noah. "WHERE IS THE PROOF?" was his next exclamation.
I too had a hard time accepting that this beloved actor could/would have committed such horrible crimes when I first heard these stories years ago. Now I'm less naive. But I understand that often people don't want to believe such things, and therefore convince themselves it isn't true. We often believe what we want to believe. Hopefully as more such criminals are exposed by more and more people it'll become harder to delude ourselves about them. But like I said, I'm less naive now, or maybe just more cynical, so I'm not going to hold my breath.
These things need to be said and need to come out. Powerful men abuse less powerful people regularly and we should be much less tolerant. (This reminds me of the story of John Kennedy seducing a young girl at the White House.) But it is impossible to have fair court trials 30 years after the fact. Such "trials" would be nothing more than circuses. Courts are not for therapy but to resolve disputes that can be fairly resolved.
This is why we should teach our daughters and young sons to run, resist, report. And we should be willing to believe them, even if a false allegation is occasionally raised.
"A" young girl at the White House? How about a serial seducer and adulterer? JFK was a prolific philanderer.
Please understand, I was merely comparing two distinct stories. I was not attempting to compare two promiscuous careers.
Shannon, I respond as you did here when I hear someone talking about King David's "one" sin with Bathsheba. HE HAD SEVEN WIVES!!!!!
As shown in the Duke lacrosse team matter, where a woman destroyed the lives of several young men with an elloborate made up story of rape (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case) it is stupid to just believe a story because it is like others we understand to be true. The old "innocent until proven guilty". Or the great verses in 1Cor. 13 where we are told that Love "thinketh no evil" and "hopeth all things". We should find ourselves having a hard time believing evil of others. I am with esbee's husband. We should all be.
That's easy for you to say as someone who actively enables the abuser. If you were one of the women who was abused, you'd be singing a very different tune.
Also,
"...it is stupid to just believe a story because it is like others we understand to be true."
You seem perfectly content to do exactly this with Bill, and...
We should find ourselves having a hard time believing evil of others.
...perfectly content to do exactly this with Charlotte.
I believe the Scripture regarding, 'thinketh no evil' is misapplied here. My understanding is that 'thinking no evil' for a Christian does not mean that we are to shut our eyes to the many different forms of evil in this world, whether in the church or out of it, such a command would go against Jesus's instincts and commands about protecting the sheep and such. While on a personal level it is sometimes wise to choose not to believe the worst about a person, (until you see the evidence) it would be profoundly foolish to make this a life-long habit regarding everyone.
(And I truly am NOT trying to pick on you here Alfred, but if you wish to think no evil of Bill, then you MUST offer Charlotte and the others the same exact benefit of the doubt, in the spirit of Christian love.)
My understanding of that Scripture is that we are not to dwell on evil thoughts, i.e. "I really want to kill that person." Or dwelling on lustful thoughts, or thoughts that will lead to us performing evil actions. I do not believe that Scripture is advocating an ignorance of evil, it's just too dangerous. Too many wolves in this big world, big wolves, little wolves, but wolves all the same.
Alfred, "thinketh no evil" is a very poor translation. The NASB puts it: "does not take into account a wrong suffered", so it has more to do with overlooking an offense than thinking nothing about any evil. The verses that follow give some context. Love: "Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth". Now if the truth is that a man assaulted a woman, love cannot rejoice in that but can rejoice in the light shining on and disclosing a long hidden evil. Ever single judicial trial is an attempt to discover the truth, good or evil. You seem to say that Love does not listen to an accuser.
Love is not "easily" provoked, but it can be provoked. Ask the money changers and brood of vipers Jesus took on. He did love them, but he was provoked by them. He does not take account of their evil because he died to pay the price. Account resolved. But nevertheless Love embodied in Christ did not walk through the world thinking as if there was no evil in it. Rather, He was continually grieved by the evil in this world. He had no difficulty believing evil of all men, because they were under sin.
God is Love; He does not "think evil" in the sense of willing any evil, but He is conscious of evil as He gave His Son to overcome evil with Good.
Excellent article! This statement the author made,"a flash of the true man beneath the smile, a man you would be punished for ever referencing later" is quite revealing of the narcissist who is so accomplished at hiding his true self until he is crossed. Almost makes me wonder if there's a special school for narcissism somewhere. They all use the same tactics as described here so succinctly.
Tangent, when i read your comment, my first thought was, " we are not ignorant of Satan and his devises." I also think there is a school where those devises are taught. Guess who is the instructor? They are so accomplished at hiding their true selves until crossed (or their precious image is exposed.) Many will take a bullet, before admitting wrongdoing.
I'm fortunate to have never met Gothard, but this is descriptive of the pastor who I and others heard say; "It's true that his [Gothard's] stuff isn't in the Bible, but it should be. It's the cornerstone for living life":
"If you question him, you will see a flash of the true man beneath the smile, a man you would be punished for ever referencing later. His memory will mysteriously drop actions and entire conversations while recalling each of your weaknesses and shortcomings with perfect clarity, and you must be confused if you remember things that he does not. Please, can you not see the strain that he’s under, and that he is trying so hard to help? Can you not see that he has given his life for you, and asks only for your love in return?"
I know the above quote from this article's author is actual methodology of what Gothard taught to pastors. There's other go-to ploys of manipulation, too. I know he did a flock-beating instruction book and/or flock-beating conference just for pastors only.
Are there any pastors on RG who've had Gothard's specific training for pastors? Anyone of these could do an article that would explain things from closer to the top of the reign of Oz. (As Moderator/Author has excellently done regarding their father's posing.)
P.S. I have been in a wonderful church for the past 4 years; I am now under the authority of good shepherds.
Nicole Gardner, I am not a pastor, but about 25 years ago, I went to about 6 or 7 "Minister Seminars." At that time BG was doing about 19 of these a year, all over the country. It was a big deal to get in, so I volunteered to be an usher and drove about 4 hrs to the closest city. I do not remember BG deviating from his "play book" much. What I remember is the feeling of being in a "good old boys club," with extra insights not explained to the lowly sheep. All the same Kool-aid, just packaged to his dedicated supporters.
ty for this info, Guy! Did the extra insights (BG's term is also "the deeper understanding") involve bringing the flock to realization of our weaknesses with regard to (in order) Pride, Bitterness, and Envy? Was it taught that a pastor was to call a spontaneous halt to his sermonizing, announcing that he had "just gotten wind of a need for some in the congregation to repent of a spirit of pride"? (And then do an altar call during this sudden break in a sermon that had either been an analytical criticism of congregants or a running advertisement of the pastor in his own words?)
Was there a prop that was a scale of guilt and blame? Translated, if you have a grievance against anyone, it must be because you're blame-shifting you're own guilt? (Hence, anytime you feel offended, it's because you yourself are guilty?)
How about sermon-note sheets in taken point-by-point from the Big Red Notebook with no additional Bible verse references? (Because there aren't any more besides the ones BG twisted.) Was doing this also recommended?
How about insisting that any deviance from the pastor's counseling advice meant that such person was to subject themselves to undergo the sacrifice, only by the pastor's selection, of some non-sin aspect of their life that they had had before ever being counseled? (A full-time job (respectable as it was), or a Christ-claiming fiance who wouldn't take back the engagement ring he'd given even when pastor culled this man as the sacrifice of his choice.) May I add that getting on his knees in a couple's council session with said pastor to re-do the salvation prayer (complete with acknowledgement of Christ's life, death, & rising) still leaving the pastor claiming that such man wasn't REALLY saved. And when asked by someone other than the couple why? (Even though he had repented of ever having kissed her and months went by without him even trying to do so anymore while she still had the ring) the pastor said this guy wasn't a Christian because of his unwillingness to commit to this pastor's church and become a member. (The guy was a full-time fire-fighter paramedic in a town 35 miles away and thus had been attending a church in that town, where he most often boarded at the station, but where his mother also lived that he stayed with when not at work).
In this last bit, I'm just wondering if BG taught that a pastor should sacrifice components of their sheep's lives so as to more closely align people with their whims and centralize their churches in enactment of choices foisted upon individuals.
nicole gardner, I have been thinking about this, and I think one of the big problems in "clearing up" BG,s madness, has to do with how he "loaded the language." (I learned that phrase on RG) Suppose you had a twin who you could send back in time to get the goods on BG. She would probably come back with reasonable sounding stuff. Not as much incriminating evidence as you might expect. BG is/was a master at being a slipper snake, very had to catch and pin down. Now this is just my perspective. I hope others can jump in and give some real answers.
I am happy that we have on our side people like you who are interested and very capable. I just have had a hard time catching him on his words. Remember his video madness? There is nothing wrong with asking on a scale of 1 to 10 how would you rate your love for God? But when BG does it, it becomes twisted, perverted and just plain evil that destroys lives. I really hate saying this, because I do not want to discourage you. You Go Girl!
nicole gardner, I should add that it would be different if you had a recording of what was said at all his seminars. Also much easier with audio/video. The power to suck you in is gone. Time to stop, take notes, back up.
nicole, I think you may have already seen some material on how BG twisted scripture. There is lots and lots here. I did not mention that because in some ways it did not seem as relevant to your questions, plus I guessed you knew that. It is a foundational issue I think.
It's actually very helpful to find out that all the fungi that IBLP has spored aren't readily identifiable as being sponge-suspect in their line-ups (formulas) at the seminars. After all, how could description of their life-sucking capabilities also fit into that 16 hours? Even plus a pastor's conference. If they had been, as in the series of examples I posed as questions, their impact would have been a lot less insidious than it actually was.
I also wonder if the examples that I gave in my questions, (all of which were real events that I witnessed, sometimes repeatedly), could have happened due to the fact that the pastor who did them lamented that IBLP teachings aren't in the Bible. Maybe the point at which ignorance with-stays a Biblical challenge to it is the same point at which pragmatically-wrought folly registers as disorder even to one's own cognition, but then that individual still keeps-on with it. It is then deliberate folly instead of ignorant folly. Unless BG & some of his cohorts don't think it's a problem that "most of his stuff isn't in Scripture", because of the "but it should be". Again, that is direct quote and I'm not the only one who heard it. In which case of the person who says this, it's not DELIBERATE folly to feel a need to supplement Scripture; that would be IGNORANT folly. Considering the Bible incomplete without supplementation of that which is identified by the same as not being scriptural merely feeds the logic that it has a deficit that must be filled with something obviously not contained therein.
As you say, if there's any doubt as to whether Gothard's teachings are in the Bible itself, they're available on his website. Stop, take notes, back up. Check Bible references. Check teachings we know from the Bible that pertain to what BG is talking about. The Bible itself has made so clear to most everybody on here that it's complete with it's precepts; pretending not to realize this wouldn't be mere ignorance, at least, not among those who do realize this.
I wonder what Gothard thinks of the Bible and to what degree of completeness of truth he would rate it's content to be at.
Thank-you GuyS and the rest of the 99% of the body of this forum for letting me write my thoughts here with the non-judgmental but instead kind support that you've displayed. I had a day off today, hence I posted a lot of thoughts. (I read more than I post, though, like you all do).
nicole gardner, there is an spiritual aspect to BG that is outside logic. I do not want this to sound lame, but there is a powerful spirit world that we sometimes ignore in analyzing the BG madness. There are lots of people here on RG that would have more insights in that area than me. I think much of BG's powerful seduction is from that world. He has a lot of human trappings that compliment the dark side. Almost anybody can get a blue suite, dye their hair black, drive an old care and preach. He is gifted from a human perspective, no doubt. I think there is a lot more. I have not yet read all the articles here, but I am guessing others have talked about it.
Guy,you hit the nail right on the head when it comes to probing past this realm,where titles mean everything,and into the spirit, where demons could care less what natural means,and titles you use.There is "a powerful spirit world that we sometimes ignore in analyzing the BG madness".I would totally invite anyone to share the irrational opression,torment from the darkness,I believe Bill gave us in this ministry of submission"memorizing scripture",passivity to deal with evil,when it would be natural to eradicate it. Walls were breached in the spirit realm,through a gateway of bondage he implemented,and then maintained,and will continue to maintain.You have "gotten" it,I have "got" it and dare anyone say that they need deliverance?Gothardism is like injesting an iceberg,where you only feel you need to address that which is above the surface,the "irrational rationalism",he teaches elevating natural religion and the carnal mind,go into your tripartite being,below the surface,where most of the iceberg is submerged.I pray people will speak up until light returns to the inner chamber.
It's possible that BG thinks of the Bible as a "living, breathing text" i.e.
it can be adapted, re-constructed for the present time, amended, or edited...sort of like the philosophy of Constitutional revisionists.
ty for this. I'll keep reading
I have been ruminating on the message in this and other stories here on RG. (My story included ---Designed to be a Finger?) In that story I recounted about breaking down after struggling with all the legalistic beliefs that I had learned from BG and other Christian leaders. I was desperate to get hold of God so I fasted. It truly was God’s fast because for 3 days I never felt hungry or thirsty. When I finally did reach God, He dealt only with me and my needs/sins/faults, etc. Today it occurred to me that in that brief time with the Lord, He never named names of those I had learned all that faulty theology from. Because my enemies were not the teachers. My enemies were the faulty teachings they presented.
The man is just sick.
His seminars are going strong in Taiwan. Pray for us as we let people know the truth about BH.
Prayed for you, Anon, and others there in Taiwan, that God will enable you to reach many with the truth of His love and grace and the finished work of Christ.