by Myron Horst
The Advanced Training Institute (ATI) curriculum was promoted and sold to pastors and homeschool parents as the best homeschool curriculum in the world. Instead of being the best, it has failed horribly in many ways. The ATI curriculum was produced by Bill Gothard and his Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) and was designed around a false education “principle” that produces results that are opposite of what Bill Gothard stated that they would be.
I am writing this so that you or your family do not make the same mistakes that we did, and so that, if you have been affected by this false education “principle,” you might recognize its error and the effect that it has had on you or your family’s thinking. It is important that we fully understand the error of the false education “principle” so that we can make the necessary changes in our thought processes and the necessary changes in our lives. Even for those of you who were not part of the ATI program, the false education principle that Bill Gothard used has probably also had a negative effect on you as well because it has been used by many pastors, salesmen, and educators.
The education concept that was supposed to make ATI curriculum “advanced” is that of teaching by using analogies and training young people to think in analogies. Basing the curriculum on Scripture was part of the analogy process and made the curriculum unique. Using Scripture also made the ATI curriculum appear to be a very godly program. Bill Gothard used the fact that it was uniquely based around the Sermon on the Mount as a powerful selling feature that got many of us parents to want to be part of his faulty education program.
Merriam-Webster Dictionary Online gives a simplified definition of what an analogy is:
- a comparison of two things based on their being alike in some way
- the act of comparing two things that are alike in some way
I bought into the concept of the ATI curriculum back in the mid 1980’s because I thought it would by far be the best homeschool education curriculum available for my family. I did not realize at the time that Bill Gothard was a false teacher and did not always tell the truth. I did not realize that he was lying to us about what the curriculum could do in an effort to sell his new homeschool program. Gothard appeared very godly with his many insights and answers into life’s problems at a time when it seemed most pastors and teachers did not have real answers and insights. By stressing the importance of character he gained our trust that he was exhibiting one of the most basic character qualities – honesty.
When he first started ATI, Bill Gothard said that the ATI curriculum was far superior to other education materials because it taught using analogies and integrated Scripture with academic subjects. He stated that teaching individual subjects (math, English, science, history, etc.) separately from each of the others, as is done in traditional education, prevented children from being able to have a broader scope of reasoning and thinking. The ATI curriculum was supposed to be an advanced training system because it integrated the academic subjects. However, it was soon discovered that the Wisdom Booklets (the ATI curriculum) were not adequate for teaching math and English. Traditional education curriculums had to be used to supplement the ATI curriculum and those and some other subjects were taught separately.
Gothard told us that with the content and design of the Wisdom Booklets, in 12 years the ATI program would not only give a child a high school equivalent training, but would also give the equivalent of four years of college, a pre-law, a pre-med, and a business education. The Wisdom Booklets, in reality, could not achieve even close to any of that. They were mere booklets that had to be supplemented with other textbooks. Many mothers felt frustrated, not knowing how to implement the curriculum to achieve the results that Gothard had promised (lied about). Because they thought Bill Gothard was such a Godly and honest man, they felt that their own inability was the reason why the curriculum seemed incomplete and why their children were not succeeding like others in the ATI program appeared to be succeeding.
In 1985, at his Minister’s Seminar in Washington, DC, Bill Gothard told us about the new ATI program and that it was based on the use of analogies. I have written in my notes that he said:
“We remember best by relating new ideas to what we already know.”
“People can be taught to think by learning to make analogies. The Bible is full of analogies.”
The following year, 1986, at his Minister’s Seminar in Washington, DC, Bill Gothard made the following statements:
“The ATI program – the Federal Education Board does not have tests to give the achievement! The students are acing the tests!”
“By the 12th year [a young person will have the equivalent of] a pre-med, a pre-law, and a business [degree].”
“The way to teach children wisdom is to speak in analogies.”
I was impressed with how superior the ATI curriculum was. I did not realize that the ATI program had only started in 1984. No students had completely gone through the ATI curriculum for Bill Gothard to be able to know what the true outcome of the program was. It was an outright lie to state that the Federal Education Board did not have a test to show the achievement of ATI students. It was also a lie to state that in twelve years a student would have the equivalent of a pre-med, a pre-law, and a business degree. The little Wisdom Booklets do not even have enough content in their small number of pages to be able to give a child a high school level of training, let alone the equivalent of a triple college degree. There was basically nothing in the Wisdom Booklets on business. This lack of content was a frustration for many mothers because they had to pull in other resources to complete the curriculum. The success of ATI students is the credit of the moms who poured time and effort into supplementing the sketchy curriculum to give their children a more complete education.
The ATI Wisdom Booklets do not give systematic and comprehensive training in the various subjects. Because of the training with analogies and trying to integrate the various subjects around a verse in scripture, the training in science, medicine, history, English, etc. is hodgepodge and piecemeal instead of systematic and logical. Students are not trained to think in a logical progression and to be able to analyze things in a logical and analytical way. Logical thinking is vital for advanced reasoning processes.
Not only does the ATI program not have enough content to give a high school level of training, it is only a seven year curriculum. It is not a complete 12 year curriculum. From eighth grade to twelfth grade, when a person should be learning higher level subjects, the ATI student repeats the content that they had in their elementary grades. It is not possible to get the equivalent of a pre-med, a pre-law, and a business degree by using the textbooks one had in elementary school! Gothard was counting on the false education principle of training of children to think in analogies to achieve the high levels of achievements that he was claiming. We will see why the use of analogies is a false education principle for giving an advanced education.
The Use of Analogies Hinders People From True Understanding
and Fails In Training People to Think
God started showing me the problems with analogies after reading an article that was based around what I thought was a poor analogy. Shortly thereafter, my 25-year-old son (who had gone through 11 years of the ATI program) told me that I used too many analogies in trying to explain things to him and it was confusing to him. I was surprised that analogies confused him rather than helped him understand. So I went to the Bible to see what God had to say about using analogies. Jesus used a lot of analogies. He would start out by saying, “The Kingdom of Heaven is like unto…” Jesus explained that the reason he used analogies was in essence to confuse people and prevent them from fully understanding what He said. The analogies were not used to make it easier to understand what He was saying, but to hide the true concepts from his hearers, including those who were the most highly educated in His day; the Pharisees, scribes, doctors and lawyers. Teaching using analogies often produces the opposite results of what Bill Gothard told us that they do! Analogies tend to hinder people from truly understanding what is being said, and hide the truth from them. The core of the ATI program was based upon a wrong education principle.
Analogies appear to help people to understand a concept because they understand what it is being compared to. Analogies can help a person to understand a new concept on an elementary level. However, all analogies stop in their similarities at some point because it is a comparison between two dissimilar things. The more dissimilar the two things being compared, the fewer the number of true similarities exist between the two. Unless a person has God-given wisdom and also fully understands both of the subjects in the analogy, they do not fully know when the analogy no longer applies to what it is being compared to. False conclusions and assumptions can often result from the use of analogies by assuming a similarity in the subjects of the analogy when the similarity does not exist. For years, salesmen have used deceptive analogies to get people to buy their products. The product could not achieve what the purchaser thought it would, because the analogy led them to the wrong conclusions.
Analogies can also convey a different concept or thought to another person than what the teacher intended because the other person is coming from a different perspective and a different knowledge/understanding base. When analogies are used, people’s minds tend to switch subjects from the original subject to the illustration that is used as an analogy. Their mind is then on the illustration because that is what they understand best and they tend to quickly forget what the analogy was originally referencing. Instead of training young people to think, it trains them to be distracted in their thinking and to allow their mind to go to other aspects of the analogy or to new analogies that have nothing to do with the original subject. Analogies train people to have short attention spans and not to stay focused on everything that is being said. Instead of training them how to think, it trains them to have an attention deficit disorder. My children have stated that often when I used analogies, their minds went to the analogy rather than what I was trying to teach them about. In the process of their minds being distracted to the analogy, they missed important details of what I was telling them.
Analogies are not sin. They are not wrong. Jesus used analogies, and Proverbs has many analogies. But analogies do not make teachings easier to understand. Instead, contrary to popular thought, they tend to hide the truth from the learner unless the student asks questions to clarify in their minds exactly what was meant, like the disciples did with Jesus.
This is what Jesus said about His use of analogies—that it was to hide what He was saying from those whom He did not want to understand:
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” (Matthew 13:10-15)
- Jesus used analogies to hide the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven from the Pharisees, the scribes and others. These people were proud, highly educated, and thought that they understood what the kingdom of God was. Their perspective was wrong. They thought God was going to set up an earthly kingdom in Jerusalem with the Messiah ruling as king. Therefore, when Jesus used analogies, stating “The Kingdom of Heaven is like…”, they did not understand what He was saying because they came from a totally different perspective of what they thought the kingdom of heaven was.
“And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.” (Mark 4:10-12)
- When we evaluate the parables that Jesus taught we quickly realize that they are not obscure analogies that are complicated or difficult for a common person to understand. They are analogies that make sense once we understand what Jesus was saying. But Jesus said that He used analogies because analogies would make the Pharisees think that they were understanding but that they would not really understand what He was saying.
“And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it. But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.” (Mark 4:33-34)
- An analogy alone does not give understanding. It requires that it be fully explained so that the student can correctly understand. Therefore, it would be simpler in teaching to skip the analogy and give a clear explanation and training rather than use an analogy which has a great likelihood of being incorrectly understood from a wrong perspective and causing the student’s mind to be distracted to other subjects.
“And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.” (Luke 8:9-10)
- To correctly understand an analogy, the student needs to ask the teacher questions to fully clarify what they are saying. Otherwise they will think that they understand when in reality they are understanding a wrong concept (“Seeing they might not see”).
We need to beware when people use analogies, because Satan could be using them to deceive us and to teach us error under the guise of spiritual truth. We need to beware when people draw analogies from Scripture and apply them to modern concepts or practices and teach them as spiritual truth. It is not unusual for people to draw opposite analogies from what the truth really is.
Proverbs, too, is full of analogies, and Bill Gothard thought that the reading of Proverbs on a daily basis would give ATI students wisdom and understanding. But the analogies in Proverbs did not help Bill Gothard or many ATI families to get wisdom in spite of reading in Psalms and Proverbs every day in “Wisdom Searches.” Instead, the analogies in Proverbs prevented some people from fully understanding and having wisdom.
We are told right at the beginning of Proverbs that a person has to have wisdom to understand a proverb or analogy. “To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.” (Proverbs 1:6) Analogies in Proverbs are dark or hidden sayings. Wisdom is a gift from God. Wisdom is not acquired by reading Proverbs or studying ATI “Wisdom Booklets.” The analogies in Proverbs are code language for those to whom God has given wisdom so that they are able to expand their knowledge base to know how to understand or act with wisdom in situations in which they have not yet had experience.
Click here to read Part 2.
Please feel free to copy or distribute this article. Click here to visit the original post.
Editor’s note: For more on this subject, read Don Veinot’s thoughts on this article at Midwest Christian Outreach.
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Good thoughts!
So, here's the $20 question that comes to my mind. Should the extensive assets of IBLP remain as a funding source to their flawed system, or should they be placed in the hands of those that were harmed by it?
Indeed, there was sexual harassment. Very bad.
The educational travesty was actually a lot worse, IMHO.
One can argue over theological differences all day, but I feel like stunting the educational growth of a generation of bright young people might be grounds for class action. I'm sick of IBLP doing nothing to right the wrongs.
Interesting you mentioned that. IBLP recently sold the historic Ambassador Hotel in Dallas (which it had owned for the last 20 years) to a development group:
http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03/dallas-landmark-ambassador-hotel-sells-for-redevelopment.html/
Can't pay lawyers in hotel rooms--they require cash.
From what I could find it has a tax value of
$2,700,000 but I could not find the sale price.
In Texas the sales price does not have to be publicly disclosed when a real estate transaction is made. Sometimes in researching the deeds you can find it but you may see "Ten Dollars and other good and valuable consideration" just as often.
In 2013, expenses were in the range of 9 million and income was 4.5 million. So, they are selling the property to stay alive. I don't think it is right.
I really don't want any money. Sell the property for $50 million and you could feed 140,000 hungry kids for a year. Don't just keep selling off properties to upkeep the other properties.
The actual sale price could be substantially more than the assessed value. Usually, the assessed value is tied to the original purchase price and will not reflect the actual inflation in real estate that has occurred. In California, for example, the assessed value can not increase more than 2% per year. So, a property bought 20 years ago is generally going to be worth substantially more than the tax rolls would indicate.
If I recall from previous financial statements that they are required to publish, the book value of their real estate holdings was in the 80 to 90 million range. This is generally the original purchase price less any accumulated depreciation. They bought a great deal of their property in the 70s, 80s and 90s and one would expect that it should have a market value substantially above the book value, as real estate values have skyrocketed in the last 20 to 30 years.
For example, if a property is purchased for $ 4 million in 1994, it could easily have a market value of $ 10 million now, given what the real estate market has done in the past 20 years in most parts of the country. The book value of said property, however, might only be $ 3 million, due to the depreciation that is allowed to be written off for tax purposes. You will notice in the IBLP financial statements that there is a couple million of depreciation that is taken every year.
So, in my example, 3 million book value, but 10 million market value.
My point is that the actual real estate assets of IBLP may be substantially higher than the book value represents. Given the time period during which they acquired their assets and that they have held many of their properties for 20, 30 years or more, I think that it is almost certain that the market value vastly exceeds the book values, even given the fact that some have reported that they have not maintained their properties as they should and some may not be in good repair. The organization likely has assets much, much higher than the 80 to 90 million reported in their financials.
As their 2013 tax return shows, they lost about 4.5 million that year. If memory serves, about 2 million of this is from property depreciation, which is not a real operating loss, just a write off loss for tax purposes. To find the actual cash loss for the year you need to add back the depreciation. Very roughly, 4.5 million on paper,adding back the 2 million depreciation equals 2.5 million in loss.
Where I am going with this is that an organization that has real estate assets of somewhere between 80 million and 200 million and is losing about 2-3 million per year, can limp along for a very long time, gradually selling off properties to cover their operational loses, even if they are not successful in re-branding themselves. They could very well keep doing this and survive for another 50-100 years, even without the generous multi-million dollar donations in years past from Hobby Lobby and others.
Excellent analysis, Kevin. I agree with you. I'd guess "The Headquarters" is worth 50M by itself. That property is solid gold. Northwoods $20-30? Big Sandy... $20-30?
I'm glad someone else is writing on this. I still have the feeling, even after going to college, that there are great gaps in my foundational education. Thankfully, I had a firm foundation in the elementary grades before we entered ATI; but those years when algebra and geometry, the introductory sciences, and social studies, are supposed to be studied are all broken into pieces of facts. I am still not sure in some areas what was fact and what was fiction. For example, one science resource talked about how the gospel is written in the names of the stars. I discovered several years ago, from a Christian publication no less, that there is no historical or linguistic foundation for such a theory. Only recently have I completed a rounded study of world history. I always liked history, and had read a lot of historical works; but there really does need to be an overview of history ranging from the ancient civilizations to recent decades in order to gain a clear picture of what has happened in the past.
Hypothetically, if Bill was to apologize for his teaching and theology that lead to anyone's lack of higher education, what would he need to say? What would it take to believe him? What would be expected from him to make it right? Could he be forgiven? With his resignation and separation from IBLP, what would be expected from them?
Larne
As ATI did damage my chances for higher education, I'll can answer for myself. For Gothard, I don't know that I expect him to say anything. Another apology would mean little. Perhaps the best thing Gothard could do now is to remain silent - no more programs, no more principles. If he were to say anything, it should only be to utterly repudiate all that he taught or had published. As for forgiveness, when I think of what he will have to answer for to God, I feel compassion for him. It is a terrible road he has taken, with a terrible end. It is too late to make it right; but Christ's death could cover all that wrong done, if only Gothard would accept the payment. I fear he has not done so thus far.
For IBLP, they must stop producing the Wisdom Booklets and all other materials connected with the educational system of ATI. It is utterly worthless and it is fraud to carry it on. Of course, they will probably cease to exist if they shut down ATI, but it is the right thing to do. I don't expect any sort of material compensation from them. If my parents were refunded the money they spent on worthless materials, it would be wonderful - it was always a financial burden to be in the program - but I don't think that could happen as the number of families who enrolled in the program would exceed the value of the assets held by IBLP. But it is necessary that IBLP acknowledge that the program is worthless and that the production and distribution of the educational materials cease.
This article hit the nail on the head! It's too unbelievable that Bill has able to sell his homeschool program without much questioning or further analysis. The over use of analogies over and above the use of one's own reasoning, logic and mind seems to have sucked in too many. I think that is why the basic seminar belittled the intellect. I am wondering why more educators didn't speak out and against the ATI program. There is a reason why a majority of education is subject based across the board, because it basically works and is the way a majority of people will learn. I wonder if Bill's analogy based ATI is partly due to his own undiagnosed learning disability and early education struggles.
I cannot speak for all the families who were duped into following Gothard, but there was plenty of objection and criticism from those around us. Unfortunately my parents chose to see it as "Persecution for Righteousness," instead of the logical and well founded opinions they were.
"Unfortunately my parents chose to see it as 'Persecution for Righteousness,' "
They are not alone. This seems to be a very popular belief among the Gothard followers. I've even been told that the 50 women, who have come forward to say that Gothard harassed and/or molested them, are just part of the persecution of a righteous man, citing Scripture about how believers will be persecuted. The denial is palpable.
" I am wondering why more educators didn't speak out and against the ATI program."
Us Homeschoolers tend to question and distrust so much, whether it be the government or the establishment. Yet it is interesting that there seems to be a lack of questioning in some areas that should be heavily scrutinized. Here comes ATI, an educational approach that is new to all the universe and it is just accepted, without any proof of concept. There is was, listed as a reference in the publications and websites of our support groups and umbrella organizations. Even HSLDA, until recently, steered members to ATI by listing it as a resource on their website. HSLDA is highly respected and trusted by most homeshoolers. Hey, if HSLDA recommends them, them must be a good program. I give HSLDA great credit for their recent article warning that IBLP is harmful and removing the link from their website, but why just now? Where was the vetting and scrutiny that should have gone on before all these groups steered their trusting members to a program that was a new approach to education and and new approach to Christianity too?
I don't think that's something limited to just homeschoolers or IBLP members. We're all very much able and often willing to jump on board a hype / outrage / countermeasure train when we perceive some sort of deficiency in the world, whether moral or otherwise. It was very easy, particularly for the generation who lived during IBLP's birth, to rush to IBLP when the culture was so confused.
In some ways, ironically enough, I think Gothard and his program were forebearers of the culture in which we live today. Because we live in an age where information is easily accessible and opinions are freely shared, there's no limitation hindering people from constructing a reality in which they are consistently fed the very information and opinions that are most desirable to hear or reinforce their own personal biases. The internet may not have been around in the '70s, but Gothard's goal to piece together a curriculum that touched every area of life made the prospect of remaining within the IBLP "box" very desirable for many.
I'm an educator-33 years worth. Conversations I had with homeschooling parents, or those considering homeschooling, always came to a dead end (except in one case). They were homeschooling for their children's moral and spiritual good. If the curriculum was Christian and endorsed by whatever spiritual authority, it must be good. Then, since i was a public school teacher, I was already suspect in terms of my own spirituality!
People looking for a silver bullet usually don't listen. They also often don't consider future consequences. I can't even imagine a curriculum based on analogies. Children younger than ten, and even older, have a difficult time grasping abstract thought. It's something teachers work towards as they present different skills. There are adults that don't grasp analogies well, either, so you really need to know your students.
But, when the culture seems to be toxic and you don't want your kids to stray, then whoever you think has the answer must be right, even when they are so wrong, as Gothard was/is.
As a retired teacher, familiar with both ATI and public school curriculum, I have found problems with both. Statistics show that American students are way behind students in other countries in many areas. So in this troubled world today where de-evolution is the norm in every facet of society, I hope those schooled under Gothard do not feel so bad for gaps in their education. Those gaps are everywhere. Where you got less "fact-based" education public school kids got less "morality-based" education. Facts can easily be picked up at any age but character is best taught at early on.
This is a good point, Esbee.
Not having seen much of the BG material myself and only having family members' experience to go on, I do have a question though. Is it "morality" that is genuinely being taught by BG's curricula, or is it Gothard's own legalistic twist on morality? It seems to me any teaching that results in a corrupted understanding of the nature of God in His grace is unlikely to be capable of producing true virtue in those who practice it--though it may produce a "moral" performance. True virtue must flow out of a right understanding and experience of God's grace (John 15).
having first hand experience with so called morality based education or character education in charter school settings, I can reassure you that these sorts of programs sound nice on paper but are a complete waste of time outside a religious setting. The so called virtue or value or whatever is completely lost on the children and then administration just uses it as another way to clobber children that don't demonstrate the so called value or virtue. If schools just focus on the basics, reading writing and math, the rest of it will fall in place. Only religious based private schools can attempt this sort of thing. Public and charter cannot. Bringing up problems in public education is a distraction to the real issue here which is the unproven and experimental basis of ATI program. Parochial education which uses basically the same material as public and follow the traditional sequential education model as public do educated far better than public schools. This includes Catholic, Lutheran and Baptist schools.
Esbee said, "So in this troubled world today where de-evolution is the norm in every facet of society, I hope those schooled under Gothard do not feel so bad for gaps in their education. Those gaps are everywhere." This is a good point for those of us who have experienced ATI as parents. As an ex-ATI dad with lots of regrets and guilt I find it healing to be reminded of the hard choices available when I joined ATI.
I always look forward to reading your comments Esbee. One of my sons is a gifted artist also and my ex-wife is a gifted singer/songwriter. The older I get, the more I appreciate how God wires us all up different. Your unique imperfect perspective is not a distraction to me.
Rob War said, "Bringing up problems in public education is a distraction to the real issue here which is the unproven and experimental basis of ATI program." I can see that from your experience with the seminars that Esbee's imperfect comment is a distraction to the real issue. I am concerned that perhaps new people reading this exchange, might feel RG is not a safe place to make imperfect distracting comments.
Guy,
real discussion is give and take and to have differenent points of view. I believe most readers new or not should beable to handel that and read all points of view and make up their own mind. I believe the discussion based on the 2 part article is about the model bill used in ATI. This model is not found in most all education systems which include public, public charter, parochial, private and even a majority of homeschool programs. There is a reason why, because as the author pointed out, it basically doesn't work. Now all of us can probably go off on a tangent about the problems and ills of public education but for all of its warts and problems, public schools are not using an unproven analog system to education children.
Interesting article, I'm trying to think of a good analogy ...
Is ATI still around? What is the enrollment like? Although most of my "circle" were/are Gothard folks, virtually none of them employed ATI as a curriculum; most were/are Abeka and the like...
ATI education is like a sieve. Put large rocks in one they will not fall through the holes. Put sand in one and slowly it all falls through the holes. Put water in one and it quickly falls through all the holes. Now for your homework, memorize the lineage of Jesus and hope that you have only rocks in your head and not sand or water to fall through the holes in your head. And remember that Jesus is our rock and He rocked our salvation.
oh, ok .... that makes a lot of sense .... :) I think I'll just stick to the good ol' 3 r's and family devotions
(absent of these mysterious WB's, that is - never have actually seen one)
My parents have been getting rid of a lot of their old materials, but decided to keep one full set of Wisdom Booklets. As I was helping them get organized, I went through and made sure they had the 54 booklets along with the accompanying Parent Guide Planners. Did that ever bring back bad memories. I'm kind of glad they kept one set, just so if someone questions whether any program could be so far out, we've got the proof.
Yes, ATI is still around and is promoted by IBLP on its website.
IBLP doesn't publish enrollment statistics. Pretty much, though, you have to be (or become) a hard-core Gothardite to even get into the program. I knew one family that was rejected because the father owned a chain of pawn shops.
We did ATI for three years in elementary years (1992-1995). Not only was I feeling like a square peg being forced into a round hole with the legalism but felt the wisdom books gave such inadequate education. The history alone was a nightmare as you bounced all over from wisdom book to wisdom book without any chronological order. We wanted our children to see the scope of His story from creation to His return. I did so much augmenting to try to cover subject adequately that it was frustrating and costly. We felt they were more concerned that we checked the boxes on the weekly reports for family worship, date nights etc than how the actual training was going. I am so thankful that we were long gone before the junior and senior high school years. My grown kids look back fondly on our KONOS years pre ATI and the years afterwards but they immensely disliked the ATI era with the conferences, dress codes and s many external controls that do not change the heart. I am grateful they got good training after ATI to the point they tested high enough so they could get college scholarships and look back fondly enough at home schooling. Our married kids see the benefits of home education is what they are consdidering with their little ones as they get old enough.
Did ATI program have any basic beginning math or even phonics to teach younger children how to read and do math?
My family was past that stage when we entered, but one of my siblings ended up helping another ATI family with little ones. They used the Christ Centred Curriculum, which ATI apparently recommended. There was no ATI program for reading or basic math.
a friend of mine jokes that ATI promised that one didn't need college because your character would get you a job - and most ended up with neither ....(character or a job) funny quip, but not so much when reality of it sinks in.
In the very beginning, (when they gave you new helps instead of making you buy them), they gave us a Mortensen Math kit with all the accompanying workbooks. The only other math material was an iblp/ati published booklet.."How to use scriptural concepts to picture mathematics (or something very near to that). We did use the Mortensen but not the other. They gave us the Christcentered curriculum further in, which was mainly reading but did have math. That is all I can remember getting for pure academics.
Maybe recovering grace could try and come up with some hard core stats. Since 1984, how many were enrolled in this program? for those that actually finished through the program, where did they end up in terms of careers and education? What jobs were its students able to obtain outside of the ministry? These type of hard core numbers will tell the real story of ATI and could be used to shut it down.
If the truth already out there does not shut it down, what do you want? Do you want all 50 state legislatures to outlaw ATI? Is it really worse than everything else so much that the First Amendment should be ignored and parents told "you can't use ATI"?
Sorry, rob, I love most of what you say, but here you sound to me a bit vengeful. There are so very many bigger problems in American education that I see ATI as a problem internal to the church rather than anything government should prioritize. Truly, given that they can't even control the border, government should not try to police our minds.
Sorry if I seem defensive. I've been in state politics for 25 years defending home schooling and promoting parental choice. Any time people start trying to outlaw any of it, all are at serious political risk. ATI students are better of than the bottom 1/4 of the public school performers if they can just read their own Bible. I think government has enough to worry about inside its own schools before they should attack any private education system, no matter how weird or dumb. (This opinion only relates to educational choices, NOT to the conduct of people who commit physical or mental abuse.)
"better off". Wish we could edit comments here.I can't post one without a tie-po!
Don,
you need to take a deep breath here. I never said anything about the government getting involved at all. That is something you read into my question which is basic and legitimate. The question is are there any hard core numbers of how many students were enrolled in ATI in 30 years and for those that went through the whole program, where did they end up afterwards? One can have all the bad testimony you want on this site as well as others but if there are hard core stats that can be published, then that will lend more credence for this program fading away which I think it is anyway. I don't know where you can read into that I said I wanted the government involved at all. That was the last thing on my mind in asking the question.
Related: how many of us who were 'educated' through ATI have decided to use the program for our own children now?
That also should be somewhat informative. =)
(Hint: based on informal surveys/discussions on alumni websites/FB groups, it's a very, very, very low percentage.)
And why should they? Aren't ATI grads better and smarter than the non-ATI educated people that wrote the ATI curriculum??? ;-)
uh oh. just remembered that winking is evil.