21 Comments

1. 

   Michael April 14, 2015 Reply

   Excellent poem. I don't mean to take away from the context of this posting, but I have a question that I think many on Recovering Grace might be wondering themselves or, hopefully, might have some answers to give. I was in ATI throughout the early to mid 1990's. Being from Arkansas, I knew about the Duggars long before they became semi-famous for 19 Kids & Counting. I can vividly remember Gothard calling them up on stage at Knoxville to perform some musical piece. I am by no means a fan of 19 Kids & Counting, but I do watch the show from time to time to sort of keep up with the Duggar clan and what is happening at ATI. Recently, Jill Duggar married Derick Dillard. I like Derick, but it really struck me as odd that an ATI disciple (Jill) married outside the ATI circle. Derick was publicly educated (gasp) and graduated from Rogers (Ark) High School. He then went on to college at Oklahoma State University in Stillwater. After finishing his degree, he went to Nepal with the IMB (Southern Baptist Convention) for a journeyman's mission. If you go on Derick's Twitter account, he is fan of multiple CCM artist including Chris Tomlin. I am not surprised at this as I am Southern Baptist and happen to like Tomlin as well. While the marriage was surprising in itself, something Derick posted recently really shocked me. He posted a link to a Christian music festival that he and Jill were promoting and planned on attending. This Christian music festival had multiple acts scheduled to appear including Christian rap artist Lecrae (who I am also a big fan of). I nearly fell out of my chair when I realized that Jill Duggar was promoting a Christian music festival that a (gasp) Christian rapper would be performing. Have the Duggar clan parted ways with ATI? Or is Jill now free to make her on choices in what music she chooses to listen to? Somehow I just can't see Jim Bob cruising the streets of Springdale, AR bumping Lecrae in his SUV. But apparently his daughter is quite okay with the CCM / Christian rap genre now? This is just confusing to me. Anyone have any answers? I would very much appreciate any input. Thanks!

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     rob war April 14, 2015 Reply

     I believe that I read that the Duggars have left ATI and joined another Christian home schooling program. The reason was not listed but I would speculate it could be due to a couple of reasons, one because the program and Gothard became too controversial for them and two, their older children are not succeeding and moving on in careers and college, even at the community type level. I thought that I read that Derrick whom you seem to know personally agreed to practicing the ATI type principals with Jill. I'm glad that they mustered the courage to go to the hospital and have their son, instead of sticking it out at home and having real big problems or even disaster with their son. Maybe it's just me but I do have some real concerns about the constant attention given them in the media as well as their own posts on social media type sites. It doesn't seem wise or healthy. While Jill was kinda raised in front of the camera, Derrick wasn't and I really wonder where this is going to end for all of the Duggar children.

     • 

       Karen April 14, 2015 Reply

       Rob, just for the record, home birth, if properly assisted by a qualified midwife and/or physician (and assuming there is a hospital in case of emergency reasonably close by), is actually safer and generally a more pleasant experience for a healthy mom with a normal pregnancy than hospital delivery for a host of reasons. (I'm not sure what the situation was with Jill and Derrick Duggar.) I found this out when I started to do research when my boss asked me to be present to be available to her young son for the home birth delivery of her second child. (We were also good friends, and their son had also been born at home.) Of course, the biggest issue (aside from special medical concerns) is the comfort level of the mom with the choice of birth environment. I don't think a woman should be manipulated to give birth in a place or in a way in which she is not comfortable. Moms are nervous enough without undue outside pressures.

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         rob war April 14, 2015

         I understand that, I think Jill was quite over due and was in labor quite a while. I think it is a willingness to do what is right for the mother and child over and above idealism. There is some thought there was a c-section. I have nothing against home births at all. As long as the baby and mother was safe and healthy is what is most important.

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         Karen April 14, 2015

         " . . . a willingness to do what is right for the mother and child over and above idealism."
         
         Yes, indeed! Our idealism will kill us. It's not idealism, but rather love that gives us true discernment.

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       LynnCD April 15, 2015 Reply

       "Maybe it's just me but I do have some real concerns about the constant attention given them in the media as well as their own posts on social media type sites. It doesn't seem wise or healthy."
       
       I was just thinking of the same thoughts on them this morning. I don't know the Duggars at all, but do not approve of putting their children under public scrutiny for so much of their lives. It isn't natural.
       
       What really torqued me off was them wanting privacy (so they said) over a stillbirth or miscarriage, and then posting a huge picture of the baby at the memorial service, knowing dozens of cell phones would send the picture on to social media. Maybe some naive person would not be aware that the picture would be used for publicity, but they are not young, and they are no strangers to how the media works, so they are not naive.
       
       If they are out of ATI, that is a good thing. I hope they have the understanding and courage to speak out against it some day.

     • 

       Julie April 16, 2015 Reply

       I remember the press release said they now use Alpha Omega.
       
       http://www.aop.com/news/the-duggars-to-homeschool-with-alpha-omega-publications/
       
       https://www.aophomeschooling.com/duggars-video

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     Don Rubottom April 16, 2015 Reply

     Don't be shocked when Christians in the entertainment industry (reality TV is, in fact entertainment), promote other entertainment. Entertainment is money and money buys promotion. Kind of like Gothard selling stuff like magic plant food or helping promote Ostrich farming. Use the crowd you have to sell whatever you can. Bottom line: once money is involved, do NOT expect non-economic principles to control. Duggars are far more TV savvy than B.G. Expect lots of "surprises" as they expand their profile.
     Remember: expectations destroy relationships!

2. 

   Hope April 14, 2015 Reply

   Beautiful words and so poignant!

3. 

   Dee April 14, 2015 Reply

   This Poem is beautiful. Thank you, Mary, for sharing it. I, too, have found poetry and art a very helpful means to heal from many difficult experiences, including the involvement in a spiritually abusive church. The leaders had been formerly involved in the Gothard home school movement.

4. 

   Stacy April 14, 2015 Reply

   Rob War, I was glad to see your comment that the Duggars had left ATI, but I found it hard to believe so I went on the ATI website and the Big Sandy Conference page and found that Jim Bob and Michelle are going to be speakers at the Texas ATI conference this year. Sadly, it looks like they are still keeping with the program.

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     rob war April 15, 2015 Reply

     I know I briefly saw this in one of the news clips by one of the homeschool programs that they would be using. i wish I had the link as well as which program it was. It was an announcement by the program who was proud to have the Duggars. Now maybe it fell through with them, I'm not sure. I'm not familiar with Sandy Hook and what goes one there but maybe they were booked before this development as well. Sadly, it all seems to be wrapped up in secrecy. Do the people that attend Sandy Hook just belong to ATI?

5. 

   LJ April 14, 2015 Reply

   Beautiful! Thank you for sharing!

6. 

   JPU April 15, 2015 Reply

   About the Duggars, I guess Stacy said what I was going to. I think they're struggling with it. Possibly even sworn to secrecy, which, quite frankly, I think everyone who was publicly affiliated with them are. I'm thinking that this conference where the Duggars will be speaking, and the Bates' too, will bring out some of the real truths. But yes, there ARE new good developments there, like with each one of their marriages. And now a new courtship. Like Michael said, son-in-law Derick works an outside job and is a fan of CCM. It appears the other son-in-law Ben is that too; they used some of it in their wedding. And Mr Seewald has a blog that shows how they re-evaluated the Bible in light of all that has happened over the last few years.
   So, keep on praying for them. John 8:32 is a constant encouragement.

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     rob war April 15, 2015 Reply

     I also believe that Jessa stated that the "courtships" ideas they promoted in the book done with her sisters "really were not her own". She didn't give specifics of which "rules" she now sees as bunk but she seem to state that Jill and her compared experiences of some sort with the "courtship" rules and stated that each courtship should be different. She likewise didn't mention the source of their courtship rules (Bill Gothard) but just stated that the put in the book what advice they were told. Which leads to the other thought that any advice and ideas in the "Growing up Duggar" would just be parroted ideas from Gothard.

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     Don Rubottom April 16, 2015 Reply

     Glad I don't watch the show. I have no idea what you are talking about or why anyone would "re-evaluate the Bible" in light of their experiences.

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       rob war April 16, 2015 Reply

       It was a reference Jessa made in some interview and it was vaguely put by her. She indicated that she and Ben were attending some Bible study somewhere, no specifics given and she stated that they were re-evaluating what they have been taught growing up. Again no specifics given as to what and again Ben does work for Jim Bob so it will be curious as to how far any of this will go. I have never watched the show myself. I don't believe in "reality TV" as being anything in reality which includes other popular shows like Duck Dynasty etc. I only keep taps on them by google searches. I only watched one clip from their web site about some snow storm and strangers interviewed in some mall as to how Michelle "does it" being stuck at home with 19 children. I could only take 2 minutes of it. It was pretty self serving. I feel sorry for the children because I think they are stage props for the parents.

7. 

   grateful April 15, 2015 Reply

   so, CCM = some sort of enlightenment? please!
   
   excellent poem.

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     Elizabeth D April 16, 2015 Reply

     grateful -
     
     CCM = Contemporary Christian Music

8. 

   rob war April 15, 2015 Reply

   back to the topic, You seem to have a beautiful gift of poetry. I hope that you have more of the same and will continue to express yourself in your poetry. I hope to see more from you.

9. 

   Grace Wells May 1, 2015 Reply

   I first attended at IBYC seminar in Atlanta in 1972 and a few Advanced Seminars since then. Found the information very helpful. Never got involved in ATI where it seems most of the problems come from......... I don't have cable tv and have never seen the Duggars tv program. Most of what I know about them comes from reading on the internet and also People magazine articles. They seem to be a nice family. but nobody's perfect. I appreciate what others have shared about them. Sounds like the Duggars have discernment and are not sheeple..... My 3 brothers and I, now ages 67 - 61, were all born at home with a medical dr who did the deliveries. Everyone should make educated decisions concerning healthcare for their families.