Editor’s note: Recovering Grace has posted a personal narrative from a former Advanced Training Institute (ATI) student and Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) Headquarters staffer. While Bill Gothard’s former secretary “Meg” was a well-known ATI student and IBLP staff member years ago, and was recognized and contacted by many when she added her photo to her story, “Charlotte” was not as widely known.
Several elements of Charlotte’s story of her life before, at, and after Headquarters are deeply troubling. Charlotte has waited years to safely tell of her experiences, knowing that what she shared would be questioned. While investigating Charlotte’s story in the eight months since we received it, we spoke with two former Headquarters staffers who were Charlotte’s contemporaries, and asked what they remembered of her time there. They volunteered the times and places in Charlotte’s story before they knew all the details of her story. After reading Charlotte’s narrative, they provided the following eyewitness accounts and context.
Dixie on the 1992 IBLP trip to Australia
Dixie’s story
I arrived at IBLP Headquarters for a ten-week stay less than a month after my seventeenth birthday. It was a culture shock to say the least. I had lived on a small farm in rural West Texas. I had never been away from my family for more than three days, and that had been only a few hours from home. I arrived at Headquarters on a Friday so that I could settle in before starting work on Monday. The homesickness hit hard, and I cried most of that first weekend.
The night before I was to start work on the main switchboard, Bill Gothard called me into his office. He encouraged me to put away the tears because it was important that I succeed in adjusting to Headquarters life. He shared with me that, despite advice from senior staff members, I was the first student invited to come to Headquarters who was under the age of 18. He explained that there were many students who were mature enough to be at Headquarters, but hadn’t been able to be invited simply because of their age.
He told me I had the power to change all of that. He had chosen me because of my maturity, and he knew that I would be a real asset to the ministry. If I could put on a smile and show the staff that I was mature enough to handle life away from home, I would be opening up opportunities for not only myself, but for many other students as well.
To make a long story short, I put on that smile. People were counting on me. Bill himself was counting on me. I could be strong in order to help other people.
Fast forward nearly four years, and my “ten week stay” was still going strong. I was serving as the secretary of one of the IBLP department heads. I had been on several overseas trips with the ministry. I also served as a house mom for one of the residences that students stayed in while at Headquarters. I was living in major burnout and had just found out I would have the opportunity to return home and still serve the ministry as an Area Family Coordinator for ATI. I just wanted to keep my record clean until I left during the first part of October.
Many young people, some as young as 13, had started spending time at Headquarters during those four years. Late that summer, the girl you are about to hear from, “Charlotte,” moved into my house. She was a vivacious 16 year old, and she loved the outdoors. She was also what we called an “encouragement case.” In other words, she did not fit the mold. She dressed differently; she seemed much too friendly with boys, and we were told she had been giving her parents trouble at home.
She almost immediately started spending a good deal of time with Bill. He would pick her up between 4:30 and 5:30 a.m. every morning. Despite my burnout, I was still very loyal to Bill and I was very concerned that she would tarnish his reputation. I was very concerned with the time she was spending with him and the way she talked about how much she was helping him. I couldn’t imagine that this young girl could really be helping with anything.
I didn’t have a chance to think about this for long. Bill pulled me aside a few days later and told me that the young lady, and another 16-year-old housemate of ours, had complained to him that I was not doing enough morning Wisdom Searches (devotionals) with all the girls living in the house. He told me that this was not acceptable and that I needed to make that a priority. I would also need to be sure that Wisdom Search did not interfere with times that he needed her help in his office. This meant that we had to have Wisdom Search at 4 a.m. to be able to finish before she left for the day. It was not until years later that I found out that she had never complained, but in fact had been grateful for one less demand on her time. I quickly realized that this had been a way to isolate her. If I was upset because of her “tattling” on me, I would not be as likely to want to spend time with her, or to notice things going on in her life.
This isolation was very effective. I was not only sleep-deprived from getting up at four in the morning for Wisdom Search, but I had no time or sympathy for this young girl, even though she needed love and support. I totally made the switch to survival mode and started very anxiously counting the days to our IBLP trip to Australia. From Australia, I would get to fly straight home. I also completely stopped listening to her excitement about all the work that she was helping Bill accomplish.
Due to these factors, I was not aware of the extent to which she suffered at Bill’s hands. Had she told me, I wouldn’t have believed her anyway, because the principle of authority had been drilled into me to the point of hero worship. I would definitely have dismissed any bad report brought against Bill. I can, however, attest to the fact that she spent many hours in Bill’s office. The opportunity was there, beyond a doubt in my mind, for the events to occur.
Over the past 20-plus years since I left Headquarters, I have outgrown the hero worship. I have also come to recognize the distortions taught by Bill regarding authority. With this new perspective, I can say that I wholeheartedly believe the story that you are about to read. I want to thank this courageous woman for being willing to tell her story.
— Dixie Brown Rose
Ryan R. during his IBLP Headquarters staff years
Ryan’s story
I first met “Charlotte” in April 1992 when we were assigned to the same team during an IBLP mission trip in Moscow, Russia. While we did not talk a lot (extensive fraternizing with the opposite gender was prohibited), I did gather that she had some struggles with her folks, who were also on our team.
A few months later, Charlotte came on staff at IBLP headquarters, where I had been on staff since shortly before that trip to Moscow. She told me she came to Headquarters “for encouragement” (which was IBLP-speak for not doing everything your parents desired—regardless of how reasonable that was—and coming for counseling). At first Charlotte was assigned to decorating, but later she and another young woman were reassigned to landscaping. We had a few conversations about how the two of them got away with that, since such things clearly were not “ladylike” in Bill Gothard’s world.
As the months rolled by, I’d see Charlotte here or there, and we’d exchange pleasantries. But I would more often see her alone in Bill Gothard’s office at night when my brother and I (rushing to get home before curfew) would cut across the access road that ran from Madison Street to North Adams Street right by Bill Gothard’s office window. I’d also see her in his car as I walked on North Adams, either on my way to work at the Production Center or while walking from the Production Center to the Staff Center for lunch. While seeing her so much in his office and car seemed inappropriate to me, given how strongly it was drilled into us young men on staff to avoid even the appearance of evil, I disregarded my gut and assumed Bill was counseling her for that “encouragement” she so desperately needed.
I left IBLP staff in December 1992 and returned to my parents’ home in Southern California. I was stunned the following summer when I ran into “Charlotte” at Disneyland! Gone was the ATI-style clothing she’d always worn at IBLP headquarters (which is why I almost didn’t recognize her). She told me she was living in Arizona and, if I remember correctly, she’d had a falling out with her parents.
So although I did not personally observe the behavior “Charlotte” references in this article, from what I did observe, all of the pieces fit, and I believe her.
— Ryan R.
[Click here to read Charlotte’s Story]
January 5, 2020
Pingback : Charlotte’s Story | Recovering Grace
I believe you Charlotte. I am so sorry to hear this, I'm praying for you this morning. I was a former HQ house leader of a girl that had a similar background. I knew things to be strangely odd. He told her the same things about wisdom searches and would go to his office alone every morning. I was offended that he thought I was such a failure he had to take her for Wisdom Search. He then would have her late into his office in the evening and bring her back in his car alone after counseling at night. I was jealous they spent so much time together. I must stop here to prevent giving out too much info because things got worse; this was in the late 2000s. This girl never confessed to me but I have my suspensions. Knowing what I've seen and heard I cannot but believe you. Hugs and love from a former house leader.
Former House Leader: would you be willing to share the details privately with the RG editorial team??
If this occurred in the late 2000s, this is well within the statute of limitations.
Thank you for sharing. I would like to echo the previous two replies to your post. If what you observed was in the late 2000s, this would probably be within the statute of limitations. I hope you would prayerfully consider contacting RG to see if your information can assist in preventing this to happen to more victims.
Yes, Please contact and share with RG your information.
I would really like to know if anyone is currently in this position at HQ and going through these same things while we talk about matters from 10 and 20 years ago? I wish we could reach out to the current ones (for whom the statute of limitations has NOT expired) and help them! I really doubt they read Recovering Grace - after all, it sounds like a lot of "bad reports." But my heart goes out to the girls who are there today. Feeling helpless. Not wanting to believe what's going on around them or to them, heaven forbid. Lord, please protect them and send someone or something to rescue them!
If anyone is acquaintances of kids who are at HQ now, by all means please forward these stories to them, so that they can talk to their kids and see if anything inappropriate has happened. 40 year of this behavior is a long time. People who have these tendencies don't typically change and it would not surprise me at all if it is going on currently. We must help those whom he is in a position to harm.
I meant to say forward it to their parents, but forwarding it to the kids would not be a bad idea either.
I know for a fact there are still young girls there. My brother and his wife just a year ago had a meeting with Bill Gothard in person, I don't remember why. The whole time they were there Bill kept calling different very young girls to him asking them to do things. Then near the end he asked all the girls to come up to the office for Ice cream. My brother said he was flirting with them the whole time. My brother and his wife left disgusted and appalled at the whole thing. In My opinion I think it sadly has gotten worse. He needs to be stopped.
As these stories keep coming, I am even more creeped out by the location of the girl's dorm across from his parking lot.
Thanks to each person for having the courage to share. How could so many of us have been blind to the warning signs???
Blind is right. I'm feeling like an idiot, myself, now. Even though, as a naive young woman raised in a cult, I could not have possibly seen the telltale signs for what they were.
DIXIE!!! I remember you and your radiant personality! Man, when I read all these names on here, I don't know or remember any of them. It makes me feel so OLD! It is such an exciting moment to finally see a name that I recognize! Thanks for sharing and good to know that you are still alive and kicking. I hope all is well for you...
Paul, I feel the same. :) I was at HQ at the same time that you were, and you are right...I don't recognize many of the names either! So glad to be able to connect with others from our era. :)
Right On, Lisa! Glad to see that there are a few of us still around. I often wonder what happened to everybody. All is good with you?
I think about everyone, as well, and hope that we are all moving forward in God's grace. :) Yes, I am well! And that is such a gift, isn't it?!
Regarding me and Grace, I shared a bit of that story in the comments section of another page: https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/the-gothard-files-a-case-for-disqualification/. I'm also on Facebook. And I agree with you--every moment that we are given is a precious gift.
Thank you, Dixie, and to so many others for your courage to speak out! Praying that the truth will continue to set people free.
Dixie. Thank you for lending your support to this woman. You are one of the few "good" memories I have of ATIA.
Dixie, I was a house leader in the late 90s, charged with the care of a 14-year-old from difficult circumstances. The pattern was precisely what you described.
My inquiries regarding (1) appropriate nature of early mornings/late nights and (2) stability for a young teenager from a difficult background--made via the personnel director were stymied. My conversations with Bill regarding the same were both shaming (my independent spirit, my strong German/teacher attitude, my thoughtless crushing of this tender girl's spirit) and slightly threatening (my sin of pride, my lack of wisdom, my fitness for service)… I stopped pursuing the matter.
It took me years to understand, believe, and begin to conduct myself like I wasn't in the wrong. All the time.
And it took Gary Haugen's explanation of injustice (what happens when people with power use that power for their own advantage against people who lack power and for whom they are actually responsible) to have words for what happened there.
Thanks for corroborating Charlotte's experience. Wish I could do the same for my housemate, even all these years later.
Beth,
Thank you so much for sharing. I applaud you for your efforts to stand up for your housemate. I would not have dreamed I would be able to stand with Charlotte all these years later, but I am very thankful to today. You may have opportunity yet to stand by her side and tell her that you believe her story.
Dixie
Beth,
She was 14 and alone with Bill, with the same early mornings and late night patterns? Am I understanding that correct? Can you please clarify?
Yes. You understood correctly.
Thank you for clarifying Beth. That is very disturbing. Very, very disturbing. If this creep touched her too, I hope she comes forward.
I too, am a witness to this occurring. 14 years old and spending much time early and late in his office.
I hope we see him behind bars by the end of the year. I have a feeling we will.
So grateful for Dixie and Ryan to confirm Charlotte's story. Even without your comments, I would have believed it. But your confirmation highlights the seriousness of the accounts to another level.
I can't get past the hypocrisy of it all. Creating the illusion of not doing anything wrong but clearly the opposite was happening.
Charlotte's story definitely takes it up a whole other level. RG, you said it took 8 months for it to come out, I'm guessing nobody else could verify these claims? I knew "Charlotte" (not her real name) and her brother. Dixie and Ryan's testimony are not really adding to the validity, but merely confirming she existed during those years. I was there during the same time, and it was very common for Bill to pick up his assistants that early in the morning, and work late. I can verify that Charlotte lived and worked there, but as to the validity of her testimony, I cannot.
Dixie and Ryan, my concern for you you is this - Did you first seek to talk to Bill and get his side of the story? We all know Bill has unlimited financial resources (ok, not unlimited, but multi-millions) and has many friends in high places of influence and some high powered lawyers he can employ at a moments notice. I am not saying this to scare you, but if these testimonies are not true facts, then a suit of defamation of character is certainly in order against you all and RG. He could tie it up in court for a long time. Since most on here do not feel he is a christian brother anymore, his biblical standard for not "suing a brother" is removed. I'd be very wary.
A court will not recognize the evidence you have against him as anything illegal (except "Charlotte's" testimony, but nobody can verify it.) Certainly church discipline is in order and he should step down if even the smallest allegation is true, but I am concerned you are barking up a very large tree without proper evidence.
Dixie and Ryan I hope you both have taken your personal grievances to Bill before airing them here... early wisdom searches, long working hours, physical exhaustion... all things that you probably regret, but not necessary applicable to Charlotte's testimony, and I'm a bit embarrassed on your behalf for why you shared those publicly.
Some things to consider. Praying for all involved here.
Aww, and if they go to Bill and ask, "Mr. Gothard, did you touch her breasts and vagina?' I'm sure he'll say, 'Yes I did. I've sinned, I should repent.' Easy peasy, done deal. I'm sure it'll work out JUST like that. Why didn't someone try this sooner? Oh wait....
While I see your main point about verifiable evidence, I have to ask, really? Do you honestly think, after the countless testimonies of how Bill is so unconfrontable, that going to him with this will clear everything up?
Either way, I suggest waiting for a few days and seeing what other stories and witnesses come forward, see what they say, and then suggest your plan of action.
It will not change Dixie and Ryan's biblical responsibility. I'm just asking if they have since that is what everybody on here has agreed should happen, follow Matt. 18.
Absolutely somebody should confront him with those specific questions. Just because it has been done before does not excuse Dixie and Ryan from doing the same. They cannot testify to the validity of Charlotte's story without doing so.
I'll forgive your sarcasm, but let's put it away... these are serious issues here.
"former student" or currently defending the perpetrator? Looks like BG has a few moles working this site
Have you ever been the vulnerable one? Didn't you see how, when Dixie asked questions, how she was shamed and warned (and she clarified HOW those two things were done). When you are a young person working for a man with great authority, it is very intimidating to go ask him to verify or deny anything like this. I could not do it. Thankfully I never had to.
But I think of a man who recently admitted to an emotional and touching relationship with his office manager. He has not shown the fruits of true repentance. I knew him in my teens and early 20's, and I could have very well been the one being taken advantage of. I could never have confronted him if I had suspected anything. He was too strong, too good, too right. He had an answer for everything. I didn't have the critical thinking skills back then that were needed to take on a mind like his. Sometimes I think I should confront him about why he is still doing family and marriage ministry, but I don't have the courage. So don't go blaming those two. Unless you've been under the spell of a perpetrator like Bill or my former friend, don't judge those who have been.
Great points Lisa.
They said in their statements that at that time they couldn't imagine Bill doing anything against his Principles. (Me paraphrasing). So why would they approach Mr. Gothard? Why should they worry about seeing the two together and mentioning it? Dixie and Ryan have said nothing defamatory against Mr. Gothard. Why are you trying to instill fear?
Read their testimonies -
Dixie: I have also come to recognize the distortions taught by Bill regarding authority. With this new perspective, I can say that I wholeheartedly believe the story that you are about to read.
Ryan: So although I did not personally observe the behavior “Charlotte” references in this article, from what I did observe, all of the pieces fit, and I believe her.
They are both "believing her story" and coming out publicly to say so... I am only hoping they talked to Bill as well.
There is nothing defamatory about stating that you believe someone's story. Everyone has the freedom to believe what someone says or not.
Yes, they believe her. They are entitled to choose whom to believe. Just like everyone reading can make the choice for themselves. They shared some of the reason they believe her story is possible.
These are not people who have had no contact with Mr. Gothard. Many of the readers know him. He comes with a testimony and a lot of material stating his heart felt beliefs. They lived within his system and if they choose to believe his principles (written opinions) are a distortion then it is their opinion. His testimony for them would be the first hand knowledge of whether or not Mr. Gothard consistently lived out his principles in front of them to the same extent his principles to be lived by others.
I do not see where their opinions gave moved to the level of accusations.
I love how Gothard supporters threaten his victims with lawsuits while at the same time telling them the Bible says they can't go to court for justice (this comment plus Alfred's).
Matthew, I am not a Gothard supporter. I am a truth supporter. My post was not a threat. I was expressing concerns for brothers and sisters in Christ.
A. Are they giving this info. and testimony out in a Biblical way. (Have they gone to Bill first to ask about this exact incident)
B. I was expressing real concern for them w/ the possibility of what could happen. We have all seen the strings that Bill can pull, and we all know the men in power that still do him favors. It's a legit concern, and anybody involved when we were knows it.
If Gothard sets up a lawsuit against RG or any of its article writers, that will mean EVERYTHING will be brought out in court. Even if the court ultimately sides with Gothard, every bit of dirty laundry that anyone might have on him will be made public during the trial. It will shine more light on him and his practices than ever before. I highly doubt that he wants that.
Maybe that is what needs to happen, and he may be at the point where he is tired of all this and does!
I hope there is a suit! First of all, I have the first $100 donation in legal fees for whomever he sues.
Bringing this before the legal system will allow so much to come to light, and a fine tooth comb would be run through his organization by authorities.
He would be done. So done and probably incarcerated. Fingers crossed for a suit!!
Their witness gives credibility to the fact that she is a real person, was at the institute at that time and that she was often alone with Gothard. I'm not sure what the purpose is of your fear mongering or if someone put you up to posting that, but what a bunch of baloney. Defamation of character for sharing what they witnessed and observed? That's not how it works. That's not even close.
No fear mongering. I am truly expressing what would be my concern where I in anybody's shoes that was publicly posting facts that had not been proven accurate.
Suing for defamation of character is very viable for their statements here. I am not threatening this, why would I? I have no reason to threaten, I am an anonymous voice. I am just a person who was involved when they were and know the power this man still has. I'm on nobody's side here, except truth, and protecting the name of Christ. I'm embarrassed for our my non-saved friends that keep seeing this posted on our facebook walls. people on the outside watching the "body" tear itself apart. There is an appropriate way to handle this, and coming out with stories saying "i knew this girl, and i can see all this happening" is not it.
I don't understand why all you "Gothard haters" feel so threatened when somebody raises a question. it's like you all take it personal. Shouldn't be. Shouldn't be.
In order to be defamation, one must knowingly share false information. If a) it isn't false, or b) you didn't know it was false... it isn't defamation.
Molestation that occurs in private, cannot always be proven. It doesn't mean it didn't happen, or that the victim should shut up about it.
*disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
Hi Former Student,
What would happen if you called Mr. Gothard and confronted him with this information? If you do, I would be interested in hearing what he has to say.
You said:
'Suing for defamation of character is very viable for their statements here'
Defamation of Character definition:
"Defamation of character is when you deliberately ruin someones reputation by telling lies and falsehoods about them to many people out of malice."
In order for it to be defamation of character it must be a lie, it must be told with malice in an attempt to ruin someone's reputation.
Which part of their story are you claiming is a lie? Their observations? As long as they are telling the truth, there is not even the slightest issue of defamation of character.
As far as stating that they believe Charlotte's story, that is a first amendment protected right. I believe her story too. It seems that about 98% of the people here believe her story. The only ones who don't are you Gothardites. Blame the victim, intimidate the witness and/or accuse them of lying. Seems like you took good notes,
Former Student, I am not taking Charlottes story personally. But do not be mistaken I have a personal story of my own. Bill Gothard's teachings have harmed my family. Not through sexual misconduct, but through distorted teachings. Is he completely to blame? No. My adult family members are also to blame for following his distorted teachings to the letter.
I came here and discovered there are many who have suffered from his ill conceived perceptions. I'm quite sure their heartache over his false teachings lean to the personal side. I don't believe we are haters of anything but the lies that have harmed us and our loved ones. Through Bill Gothard's written words and his deep need to control others we are very clear where those false teachings on how to obtain God's best originated without Charlottes story.
Since you seek nothing but the truth ask yourself how many of your loved ones would have to be harmed before you would feel personal about it?
Kevin: Defamation of character comes into play if Charlotte's story is not true. My question was "did they hear the other side of the story" before believing their statement to avoid contributing to something that may be false. I am not saying Dixie or Ryan are lying, or even Charlotte. I am simply saying, did anybody check out the story?
Nancy: I do not disagree that Bill has sinned, taught wrong truth, harmed and hurt families and should step down. My personal experience was quite severe, quite well steeped, and I have personally seen the damage that his teachings can do. This is simply not the way of getting him to step down. I do not see it as biblical, and I am challenging my brothers and sisters in Christ... this needs to be face to face with him. I don't care how many people have tried and failed... scripture does not release us from continuing to follow a biblical model of going to him face to face. RG is now following the path that BG took, and inventing ways to change truth to match what is convenient.
Yeah, the RG staff spent EIGHT MONTHS checking out the story. Beyond that they sought the counsel of many... Your concerns are not valid.
"I'm embarrassed for our my non-saved friends that keep seeing this posted on our facebook walls"
I am not embarrassed at all. The false church facade needs to be destroyed because it preaches a false gospel. This is NOT the Body of Christ, it is a Leech-like organization headed by a man that has NO PART in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Tell that to your friends, and tell it to them Loudly, strongly, and clearly. Tell them that they are watching Christ Jesus protect His Body from the wolves that have feasted too long on His Lambs.
Former Student, I don't believe he will step down. I believe he has hardened his heart against anyone who questions his authority. This is what he has exhibited for 40+ years. I believe all that is left is to warn others of the dangerous doctrines of IBLP/ATI that Bill Gothard authored and teaches.
Like I have said in other articles I am was never part of a Gothard group. I only went to one IBLP Seminar. My concern is for family. If I can't find out the lies from them because of shame and guilt I will gave to use avenues like RG to learn what false teachings they gave been exposed to so I can approach with care.
The stories over the past week and a half shown far more than sexual misconduct. They show a lifestyle steeped in fear and control. It is his pattern of manipulation that I need to learn about to help those I love.
>. I'm embarrassed for our my non-saved friends that keep seeing this posted on our facebook walls. people on the outside watching the "body" tear itself apart. <
So it is better to let false doctrine and gross misconduct continue in the body of Christ so that we don't make ourselves look bad to the world? Seriously?
God is light. When the light shines in the darkness, the darkness goes away. The only ones hurting the body of Christ here are those like Gothard, who teach a false gospel and who use their power and influence to manipulate and hurt others. Your unsaved friends should look at you and other Christians and see Christ, not a system or a doctrine. If we would all live that way, we would have nothing to be embarrassed about.
I am embarrassed that the sinful actions occurred in the first place.
I am in no way embarrassed when the church or IBLP is taking definitive steps to repremand sin.
It is NEVER A SHAME to execute justice. Should a police officer be embarrassed when he must arrest a prostitute because he is DOING HIS JOB to resolve the situation? Uncomfortable, certainly, embarrassed--no.
Why should we be embarrassed to do our job to execute justice...ever??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_intimidation
"Did you first get Bill's side of the story?"
I wonder, do you even hear yourself?
Matt 18.
Matthew 18 doesn't say to go ask the perpetrator whether they really abused anyone. But hey, give it a try! See if he will admit it to you! I was pointing out the futility of such an idea.
RG have already published the emails from when they contacted Gothard. He stopped talking when they said they specifically wanted to discuss the issue of sexual abuse. He has been approached, many, many times by many witnesses. He is not interested in repentance. Matthew 18 - the next step is to tell the church. Not the local church, the church. Which brings us here. Thank you for verifying that the correct procedures are being taken.
Right on. This is 100% "he said, she said." All the RG stories are that way.
You need documentation that the IBLP board counseled him, pictures of him alone with young girls at 4am, etc. I do believe he is sounding very sketchy, and frankly, I hope he goes to jail if he did these things, but there's no evidence here.
This site reflects a common attitude in ATI students that feel resentful about their time wasted with this questionable ministry. Very bitter, a little angry, and lots of motive to defame the guy who propagated all of it.
I was a student many years ago and I have no love lost for ATI, but these stories lack any sort of backing.
Most sexual abuse cases are 'he said' 'she said'. With 34 women claiming sexual abuse and/or harassment, it becomes overwhelming. If someone that he abused within the last 20 years, within the statute of limitations, comes forward, your Dear Leader is doing the perp walk.
And no, they don't need photos to prove he was alone with any of these girls. That's absurd. If that was the standard, then there would almost never be any criminal cases of sexual abuse. There are witnesses who have stated that he was alone with these girls, not to mention the girls themselves who could testify to this. Even if the SOL has expired for their cases, they could still testify that he was alone with them.
"these stories lack any sort of backing."
34 victims. Witnesses. No backing? What on Earth are you talking about?
Sandusky got 30 to 60 years and that was with only 10 boys who came forward. RG reports there are 34 women so far, and counting.
"The crime is not only what you did to their bodies but to their psyches and their souls and the assault to the well-being of the larger community in which we all live,"
Judge John Cleland
I understand that Gothard favors the color red. I wonder how he feels about orange?
Last time I checked, child molestors, sexual predators and rapists didn't usually perform these acts in public places where others could witness them. Does this mean that the only molestation/sexual abuse/rape that we should take seriously are those that were literally witnessed by someone other than the victim and the perp? Also- just curious, why are we doubting the victims? Last time I checked, women aren't usually proud of having been sexually harrassed, fondled, taken advantage of...usually these things are shameful. (and let me make very clear that I don't believe any of these victims should own that shame- the shame belongs 100% to the perpetrator- but that doesn't mean that the victims don't feel it). VERY few women would come forward and make up a story like that. And VERY many women who have had these experiences keep silent out of shame. Why are we discouraging the few brave souls who come forward by discrediting them just because the crime wasn't caught on camera. And exactly how many people have to come forward verifying stories or telling their own stories before the word of the victims itself becomes evidence? Shame on you for discrediting them.
These talk of Defamation lawsuits are overblown, and shows a misunderstanding of the law. There is not a credible case of defamation here, and if Bill brings one he risks a counter-suit, to say nothing of ruining his credibility amongst his sheeple. Nothing to see here, move along.
Can you imagine the defense attorneys salivating at the opportunity to get Bill up there on the stand, testifying under oath? They'd keep him there for 2 days. Let him purger himself left and right, not knowing who they will be putting on the stand to expose his lies. The publicity of a trial, the defense with the right of discovery and ability subpoena all of his communications and records? I'm sure that in the course of discovery they would be able to pull up enough info on him to have a major cross suit. Witness after witness, countering what Bill testified to under oath- if the judge believes him to be lying under oath in her courtroom, things will not go well for him in a cross suit.
No, it will never happen. He's reckless, but not that much of a complete idiot.
Former Student,
In accordance with Mathew 18, the tireless truth seekers of RG have worked countless hours in trying to get Bill to meet with them. In addition, there have been quite a few unsuccessful attempts by others who have contacted Bill to give him the opportunity to repent and reconcile.
Here are two articles RG has published on the website that explain the Biblical process they followed. RG has prayerfully gone to Bill many times hoping to facilitate reconciliation.
February 3, 2014 - The Gothard Files - A Case For. Disqualification
https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/02/the-gothard-files-a-case-for-disqualification/
June 6, 2013 - A Call to Repentance
https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/06/a-call-to-repentance/
Matthew 18 is not being followed in two areas.
#1. Matt 18 applies to us as individuals. Just because one person goes to him and confronts him does not remove the responsibility for the next person. RG has not allowed for a blanket exception for everybody to not go to him themselves. This website is feeding a frenzy of people who feel they can air their problems with BG and completely avoid Matt 18. My specific question here, was to Dixie and Ryan personally.... have they personally gone to Bill before issuing their "complaint". I know they are not making any new accusations, but by posting their story publicly I think they fall in the same category.
#2. RG is saying this is the "church universal" the third step in the process of Matt 18. The internet is not the "church universal". Bill attends La Grange Bible church if they wanted to take it to his pastor. Now they argue that he is not an active member, but that does not release us to spread this all over. This would be the equivalent of Jesus writing all the details of the sinners exploits, making thousand of copies and posting it all over Jerusalem. Jesus said it should be contained in the church. I agree it is difficult to figure out how to do this, but there has to be a way. Talking to every member of his current board, and yes... LaGrange Bible church would be a great start.
Mind sharing your credentials for interpreting the Scriptures for us, and informing us of what applies, where? Because I think this is an interpretation generally used to save face and to silence people.
Again, I point you to Paul's very public rebuking of false teachers and "wolves in sheep's clothing".
Not sure how you think that way would be "saving face". Seems like his board, or pastor would be the only ones who can "force a shut down". Posting stories on the web will not accomplish this.
Paul's rebukes lasted for a couple of verses, not chapters and books.
You've had significant involvement with Gothard, and never seen Matthew 18 shoved down one's throat in attempt to shut them up?
I actually think it would be great for you to call Gothard himself, and ask him if these things are true. I am sorry that it will not end well for you, unless he believes you are on his side, but I think it would help you to see the futility of a personal meeting. Maybe you would see the side of him that many of us have experienced.
In any case, I don't interpret Matthew 18 as you do. And Paul spent entire books talking about certain teachers and their teachings. He didn't mince words. Try Galatians on for size.
If you think either his board or pastor can force a shutdown... Okay, I can't do it. I'm laughing too hard :D
Just... Try looking at past IBLP history.
That is all.
Assuming Matthew 18 applies in this situation:
Hundreds of people have already attempted to follow every step of the Matthew 18 process. Consistently Bill Gothard has demonstrated his resistance to following the Matthew 18 process. He has refused to listen at every step that people have approached him on.
However, I maintain that Matthew 18 has never applied to Bill Gothard, because he is not a brother in Christ.
Bill has demonstrated a pattern of ongoing behavior spanning FORTY YEARS that makes him unworthy to claim that he is a Child of God. It's view that Matthew 18 does not apply in this case, as Bill is not a brother.
Thus, the church is instructed in Matthew 18 to treat him "as a pagan" - obviously everything in love, in an attempt to win him back... but a pagan nonetheless.
I would actually agree with you on this. So if somebody does not think he is a brother, then they should treat him as a heathen... so why are we seeking repentance from him? How do you treat a heathen in this situation? Sue him! Sue Sue Sue.
If some believe He is a brother, then at what point does that instruction go away? After 50 people have tried, 100, 1,000? I still think it is to be followed.
Here is why I think this is so important. if everybody here that had a problem with Bill sought a face to face meeting, spent the time and money to sit down with him... would he not be overwhelmed, and eventually be made aware of what he has done?
Maybe, maybe not, but his response does not change our responsibility. We are taking his irresponsible response and using it as a license to shirk our responsibility biblically. (wow I used responsible a lot in that last sentence)
"How do you treat a heathen in this situation? Sue him! Sue Sue Sue."
Not sure where you find that in the Scripture.
"If some believe He is a brother, then at what point does that instruction go away? After 50 people have tried, 100, 1,000? I still think it is to be followed."
You need to check the math in Matthew 18. The quota is 2 or 3. Not 1,000. We are well past 2 or 3. The time is long past to move to the last steps of Matthew 18 and expose Gothard as a false teacher and to warn everyone of his dark deeds.
"his response does not change our responsibility"
You maintain that it is our responsibility to treat him as a brother in Christ, when clearly he is not of Christ.
Out of love for the brothers & sisters in Christ, our responsibility is to warn everyone we can about the false teacher who is Bill Gothard.
Both Peter & Paul instruct us to be very wary of the false teachers for they can be as deceptive wolves in sheep's clothing
The best thing to do at this point is: shine the Light of Christ into every dark nook & cranny we can, and warn the true brethren about those, like Gothard, who want to feed on their souls.
I need to check my math as well... lols.
The numbers in Matthew 18 are indeed 2 or 3, plus some more for witnesses. So let's round up to ten.
But it doesn't change my point.
Forgot to reply to this:
"so why are we seeking repentance from him?"
My view is that Bill needs to be held accountable for his actions ... according to his own teachings and interpretations of Scripture. He needs to submit to his own rules and face the music.
That's why I support these last few articles because they shine a light on Bill to show that he clearly does not follow his own rules.
You are so very right!!
I am so sick & tired of hearing people try to defend predators by claiming that the victims are "attacking a Christian brother".
A real Christian brother would not be piling up a record of sexual abuse.
One proverb comes to mind:
Ask the fox that is watching the chicken coop if he saw anyone steal any chickens.
LBC has have been approached several time over the last 34 years. But the Gothard's were an influential family in the church. Accepting that a member of Gothard's “status” was guilty of the charges you have seen on RG would require church discipline. When approach after the 1980 scandal they refused to deal with the truth. Now 34 years later they would have to accept they had made a mistake and lose face. This is a common problem in the church today to sweep it under the rug to "Protect the name of Christ" but in reality protecting their own reputations. In Revelations 3:14-22 John writes of his vision of the condition of the final church before the second coming of Christ; 14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
I can’t speak for RG because I am not part of it, but for what I have seen of their attempt to bring closure to this whole Gothard issue is a righteous call for repentance as commanded in verse 19-22. I believe we live in the end times and the church as a whole is lukewarm and refuses to take a stand on controversial issues, whether it is from pride, money, reputation or sin in our own lives. Christ calls us to love, repent and forgive.
Thirty-four years ago as I was leaving the Institute in disgust, not so much for the scandal, but Bill’s failure to repent for the sin of covering up his brother’s past history and his failure to follow his own teaching. I applied Matthew 18:15 in person, in the driveway in front of his office, and told him if he confessed his sins and repented, sought to restore those he hurt the most, God would bless him like never before. You see each one of us is a failure before God but through Christ Blood we are forgiven. If Bill would have acknowledged his failures, repented, restored other and made that message of that failure part of his ministry, the world would have stopped and listened. It would have been a much purer message then we heard anywhere else from pious clergy who in reality were sinner just like us.
Bill chose a different route, one filled of sin, pride and selfish ambition. Today we are dealing with those choices and the proof is the stories we read on RG. What is being called for is Bill’s repentance for a life time of unrepentant sin and as Matthew 18:15 and 16 have been applied in the past now vs. 17 is being executed by proclaiming it to the church. Its in God’s hand and as I have personally to told Gothard before he can deal with it now or when he crosses over to the other side and faces his maker.
Larne Gabriel
Gothard's pilot 1979-80
Former Student posted
"The internet is not the "church universal".
What would be a better example of the church universal than a collection of posters on the internet, on a site such as this?? I'm hardpressed to think of a better example.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the next few days. One question for those who are crying foul and citing Matthew 18: did you contact the leaders of RG personally, then through their respective local churches before calling them out publicly on this site? Goose and gander, you know...
Also, Ryan, were we in Russia together in 1992? I was on the green team, if that means anything.
Good point. Those who are offended by RG need to take the next few years following the Mat 18 approach before they say anything publicly about it. They certainly aren't following Matt 18, but insist that everyone else does.
I think people need to split this out into different categories.
1. Civil actions- Disagreements between believers- typically over money or property. Clearly a Matthew 18 approach.
2. Criminal actions where laws are broken- Romans 13 involve Authorities. Not doing so would be unbiblical.
Absolutely.
This is interesting... (And a little creepy).
https://www.regonline.com/builder/site/tab2.aspx?EventID=1305625
Journey to the Heart
March 29-April 8, 2014 (Young Ladies)
Journey Overview:
The Journey begins on Saturday, with each attendee having a personal interview with Mr. Gothard at some point during the day. The first official session will start at 6:00PM Saturday evening.
Sunday:
This will be a time of completing personal interviews, getting to know team members, and various teaching sessions.
Monday:
All Journey attendees will travel up to the Northwoods of Michigan where the real Journey begins. For the next five days, (Tuesday through Saturday) there will be much individual time to seek the Lord, interspersed with group prayer and discussion as the teams work through the Journey to the Heart binder. In the evenings there may be speaking sessions or various DVD messages and testimonies.
Thursday:
This will be a day of delighting in the Lord through fasting and seeking Him.
Sunday:
In the morning the teams will leave the Northwoods and return to Headquarters in time for an evening meeting.
Monday:
This will be a time of follow up training and practical counsel for returning home.
Tuesday:
Everyone will return to their homes and families.
I wish someone could rent a space in front of the Northwoods facility and put up a sign with the Recovering Grace website.
Former student posted:
Seems like his board, or pastor would be the only ones who can "force a shut down". Posting stories on the web will not accomplish this.
Couldn't disagree stronger on this. Actually, if only a small part of these charges are true, it's like that ONLY massive outside pressure (websites, social media, national publications) will have the desired affect. IF BG has dodged and hid for 40plus yrs, why would we think that a one-on-one will change that ?? 34 witnesses and counting.... what does it take, what is required, what is the tipping point before those around BG will have to concede that a serious breach of leadership and trust has occurred?
How did someone who taught so strenously on accountability manage to evade that for this many years ?? You shall know them by their ...copious notes in their fat notebook ???? Check again..
Greg R, just follow the history of IBLP over the past 40 years. The same people that were trying to stop him in the 80's are still in the same position. Nothing will come of an attack of social media, unless it motivates people to actually do something about it. RG needs to take him to court if they are done with trying to do a face to face meeting. If his pastor and board can't shut him down, then taking him to court will be the only way. He has almost unlimited financial resources and will keep going until he dies, unless all these people making accusations actually try to do something about it.
"A licensed attorney" recently posted - Posting statements like this on a biased website is the worst thing Charlotte could possibly do. If she took her case to trial, Charlotte would not be permitted to remain anonymous because she has already posted a tell-all on the worldwide web. This could result in a public hearing instead of a closed hearing.
"Shutting him down" may not be possible (for us). It would not be hard to catalogue dozens of ministries and groups that have behaved like IBLP, if not sexually, the hiddeness and obfuscation. The benefit to blogs like this is not necessarily stopping him, but giving the church at large (including those still in the group) to make better decisions, and flee harm.
The best defense, as I understand it,against toxic groups and leaders is GET OUT. I think that's what this website is about, of course if legal action COULD happen , then all the better. Get out, and warn others: Rome may, or may not , come to our defense, but we can choose to be led be someone more Christ minded, just hit the door.
An aside: it would seem as if BG has been approached multiple times for one on one correction , or something like it. I think he is far, far , beyond that , but I'm very much an outsider in this (other than as a member of the church universal). It's a lousy herminuetic, IMO, to say that every single new person offended must go to a one on one confrontation in order to obey Matt. 18. It would be easy to manipulate that kind of interpretation to avoid repentance, and avoid being called out publicly.
" It's a lousy herminuetic, IMO, to say that every single new person offended must go to a one on one confrontation in order to obey Matt. 18. It would be easy to manipulate that kind of interpretation to avoid repentance, and avoid being called out publicly."
I agree 100% Greg. It is interesting to note that several anonymous posters have suddenly popped up demanding this. Gothard would love nothing better than if the victims were convinced that they were obligated by Matt 18 to confront him one on one. It is so far beyond that.
Exactly. Even the graphic header for this article-series quotes step three of the Matthew 18 process. One-on-one confrontation has been abandoned as viable by the RG team.
And what's the POINT of "taking it to the church"? What result is implied by the third and final step in the Matthew 18 process? Why, publicity, of course. An overwhelming weight of peer pressure. An inability on the part of the offender to hide and deny and ignore.
If the offense occurred within the confines of a local church body, then of course "the church" in Matthew 18 refers to that local church. But such logic doesn't apply here. Bill Gothard is the head of an international parachurch organization which purports to shepherd its own loyal flock in all matters of doctrine and practice. For those families in IBLP and ATI, he's the equivalent of the Pope. His decrees are binding; his rhemas constitute special revelation. He submits to no man, is accountable to no man, looks to no man for guidance or restraint. In Gothard's world, his authority and power are unquestioned, absolute. It'd be ludicrous to assume the pastor whose pew Gothard happens to fill on Sunday morning holds any sway over his actions.
No, Gothard wants to influence all of Christendom. So to all of Christendom must his sins be divulged.
RG has no legal standing to take Bill Gothard/IBLP/ATI to court. Individuals can press charges, individuals can sue, individuals can set up a class action suit.
RG is doing what they can do at this point - giving the victims a chance to tell their stories and expose the man for who he really is.
@former student: what BG needs is LOTS of public hearings, the more the not-so-merrier (sorry to harsh his mellow). I'm not saying that punitively, only a stament of fact that his MO is secrecy , all under the guise of good intention. Time to bring EVERYTHING out to the light. If he's clean and virtuous ,he has nothing to fear.
The LEAST of anyone's concern should be BG's reputation: the name of Christ and the church AT LARGE...... that's a differnet kettle of fish. But Bill and his ministry: it's scrutiny time...
An aside: the likely sources of the next wave of such scrutiny will be some arm of the mailine media: The Atlantic... The NY Times...Rolling Stone you get the picture. If you think THIS post has generated some heat...
yeah, I know , media is the tool of the devil and all that... but this might be a case of the LORD speaking thru Balaam's a$$.
Former student, exactly why would you consider a public hearing detrimental as opposed to a closed hearing?
Maybe I am misreading you, but it seems to annoy you that these young ladies have the resolve in them to reveal the truth of their stories openly.
Also, since when does the defendant set the stage for the prosecution?
We have specific Scriptural instruction about how/when to mark a man as a publican and sinner and to exclude him from the church.
If that is about to happen, do you consider it valid to reprimand church leadership on their procedure to prevent them from making that call?
Also, is IBLP subject to the domain of the church or does it consider itself to be apart from that domain?
The examples of Scripture do not demonstrate that Matthew 18 is the SOLE SCRIPTURAL pattern of resolution for sin or abuse.
I would like to put this in another context. Last school year I took a grad class in Spanish Lit, specifically Latin American theater. Latin American countries have a history full of conquest, oppression, and violence, and as we read the theater works written by their own authors we often saw themes of abuse and oppression. One of the articles on theory we studied was from the book "Staging Traumatic Memory" and was called "The Archive and the Repertoire." Let me summarize it briefly for you.
Traumatic memory is stored in two places. The Archive is made up of tangible evidence (i.e. photographs, police reports, doctor's reports, human remains, etc.) that would be counted as evidence in a court of law. This is perceived as more valid and credible. The Repertoire are personal memories, flashbacks, physical and emotional pain carried in the victim's body. These are often discredited as temporary and invalid because they are so intangible.
So we come to the question: "How does the repertoire store and transmit social memory? Whose memories/traumas disappear if we privilege the archive over the repertoire of embodied experience/knowledge?" (p. 202) Another issue is how do you offer "survivors the opportunity to reassert their capacity for intervention, no matter how overdue" (p. 208)?
One theater group in Peru, Yuyachkani, intervenes in two powerful ways: transmission and witnessing. First, they collect people's stories and memories of abuse and then re-tell them (in their case, perform them). To shrink from telling the story is to discredit The Repertoire and to perpetrate the abuse. This telling is a way of "re-membering and transmitting social memory." Second, when the story is publicly told you create witnesses. "Without representation (the telling of the story), viewers (in our case readers) would not recognize their role in the ongoing history of oppression which, directly or indirectly, implicates them." We who have read these stories are now witnesses and we must "accept the dangers and responsibilities of seeing and acting on what one has seen." This "teach[es] communities not to look away." (p. 211)
These stories have no archive. RG has clearly said that even if the statute of limitations had not expired, there are the "he said/she said" elements of this story. From what I understand there is no tangible evidence that could be admitted into court. Therefore the most powerful thing I believe RG can do is to tell the stories, to transmit them to us and make us witnesses.
How dare we shrink from the responsibility now upon us? If we look away or try to quiet these brave voices, we not only condone but perpetrate the abuse.
I like that! I really believe in the power of story. Sometimes the one thing people need most is a listening ear - a chance to tell their story to someone who will hear and care.
Wow! I find that description powerful. Thank you for sharing!
"How dare we shrink from the responsibility now upon us? If we look away or try to quiet these brave voices, we not only condone but perpetrate the abuse."
Amen!
I feel as though we all have a responsibility to warn everyone. Facebook, emails, conversations. Warn all who would be his victim.
Hi, Dixie & Ryan!
Just wanted to say I really admire your being willing to back "Charlotte" up in her story.
Dixie, I can imagine that's not easy, looking back at how you weren't there for her. All of us house leaders wanted to do well, but we were so young ourselves. How were you to know you were falling prey to insidious tactics designed to isolate "Charlotte" and guarantee you wouldn't believe her if she did talk?
I had no idea how to "lead" my house, and I was so sheltered, it took me years and years (after living at IBLP HQ) to get to the point of believing that something as horrific as sexual abuse could occur--to people I know, committed by very nice, "Godly looking" people.
Of course I knew "Charlotte," but even had she been in my house, I'm afraid I wouldn't have succeeded in protecting her--or even suspecting what was so very, very wrong. None of us were a match for a skilled manipulator like Gothard.
It makes me sad and angry to hear your story. Young and missing home, told to plaster a smile no matter what. You were used and manipulated--all so that others could be abused even worse. I'm so sorry.
Thanks to all of you for speaking up. Maybe future abuse can be prevented. Silence and isolation have been Mr. Gothard's biggest allies. You all are breaking both of them.
I never got why people are so enthralled with Gothard, he is a tool, always has been. Dixie I am truly sorry this happened to you, you are a brake person for speaking up. Keep it up, your story will help many others.
Mr. Gothard if you or any of your folks read this, Stop it, right now just Stop it. You know that old "repent" word.
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Dear Charlotte & Survivors,
My heart is heavy as I continue to read these posts. With deep sympathy’s I say that I am so sorry that this happened to you and to many other young ladies. As a survivor of Clergy Sexual Abuse, I understand what you may be experiencing. If you or any of the ladies affected by clergy sexual abuse would like to seek support, please visit us at www.thehopeofsurvivors.com.
As people who have been where you are and understand your confusion, feelings and pain, we desire to help victims of clergy sexual abuse and misconduct and their families by making information readily available to them. We are available to provide encouragement, support via email, written correspondence, phone and conferences.
What qualifies us to help you and guide you? It is our own personal experience with the horrible trauma of pastoral sexual abuse. We do know exactly what you’re going through. We share with you from the perspective of 1 John 1:1—“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.” (NIV)
Clergy sexual abuse and misconduct (including spiritual abuse) is wrong. It is the pastor’s (or any other person in the role of authority) responsibility to maintain appropriate boundaries. Read what some of our former clients say about us…
“Thank you for your commitment to advocating in behalf of victims of Clergy Sexual Abuse. The survivor community is unified and strengthened due to your daily work. May your faith become your reality. May the joy, peace and love of this winter holiday season delight you daily. On behalf of survivors all over the world, we sincerely appreciate you. May God bless you, increase you, and make you a thousand times more than you are.”—MD
“I am an attorney representing a girl who suffered abuse by her Youth Pastor at the age of 16. We found your site and it has been of great help and comfort to my client. I would like any information you have or could share so that my client(s) can interact with other survivors and get help moving on. The church never apologized to the family, said it had no way of knowing such a thing would occur again, and the congregation and clergy have turned against them. The church did not offer any counseling, support, or legal help with the prosecution. The entire family is broken and suffering. I appreciate all the help you can offer via survivor support. Thank you very much for having this site on the Internet. It has already helped the family greatly, as the church's reaction has stunned them, and they feel lost, at fault, and guilty.”—Attorney, FL
May God continue to give you comfort and peace.
Vivionne Keli
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When I first attended a BIYC, at the urging of my pastor, a man and his family whom we love and trust, I was was appalled. My pastor preached a gospel in which Christian liberty balances with spiritual authority, and that the church family is the spiritual authority to whom we as Christians owe our loyalty and obedience and support. In turn, the church supports us with faithful teaching of the word and loving support when we have problems and difficulties.
One problem I saw with the BIYC structure was that there was not a church involved. It shows up here. People take the context of confronting Bill Gothard first. But then what? To what church do you take the matter if he simply blows you off and continues in his pattern? And now, the threat of a lawsuit hangs over the head of those who are engaged in attempting to straighten out this whole matter.
I won't complicate my letter by adding the points of Gothard's teachings that I thought conflicted with Scripture.
My opinion based on the Word of God is that the behavior of Bill Gothard is the root of the poisonous tree. The fruit of the ministry grows out of that poisonous root.
And now the whole mess taints the reputation of the very Jesus Christ that we want to present to the world as One who love us and changes our lives into with forgiveness of our sins, and our ability to grow into Christian maturity after that forgiveness.
The model presented here is that a human regulates human behavior with counseling, erroneous teachings, and social pressures. I believe in independent corporate Bible study. I don't believe that independent corporeal Bible study supplants the Gospel preached in the context of a church. Sadly, I don't hear Charlotte et all say, "In the midst of all of these problems when I was with the Institute, that I went to my pastor of my church that I attended while being on the staff, and asked for assistance." Again, the model is, in the middle of my spiritual sufferings, I went to another staff member who may or may not have turned me in into organizational authorities.
A sad commentary that Christians trust a parachurch organization rather than a true church.
Jim,
I agree with you that it is a sad commentary. To add to this sadness is the fact that we did not have "a local church" while we lived at the headquarters. I can remember at least 4 different churches that we would attend for a while and then with no explanation we would not be driven to that church any longer. We also visited many churches, some an hour or more away, to sing for their services and to share about the seminars. There was never relationship built with a pastor or even church members that would have been an outlet for us to seek help. We arrived just in time for the service to start and were expected to load back up in the vans immediately after the service dismissed. We never attended Sunday School.
We had training sessions on Sunday evening and so never attended services other than Sunday morning. Transportation was not provided for Wednesday night services either. I did not have a driver's license, but if I had, I would have still had to sign an institute vehicle out and receive permission to drive anywhere.
I am sure this type of isolation seems totally foreign to anyone who has not been in a similar situation. Add to all of this that we were young and extremely naive and I hope you begin to see why contacting a local pastor never crossed my mind.
Dixie,
The more I read, the more this sounds like a cult. I can see how that type of isolation, combined with the way that Gothard was put on such a pedestal was a dangerous combination.
Thank you so much for having the courage to be a witness for Charlotte's story.
Jim Porter: methinks you are a little too in love with the (alleged) biblical model. I was a member of a local church that trumpeted the exact same things you did, and guess what, they were almost as whack and sick as BG and crew. Don't strain at a gnat (the exact ecclesial model) and swallow a camel. The problems are more the kind, and style of leadership, and there approach to scripture and authority. This can happen, and has happened , in the local church just as often (while bragging that they are the "biblical model"...
thanks for enduring a mini-rant..
Some of the readers here would have a difficult time understanding just how sheltered many girls brought up in ATI were. When I went to ATI training centers and functions I thought I was a sheltered girl from a conservative home. Yet I'd had a job, drove a car, and had friends who were "in the world." I'd seen R-rated movies. Despite all that, I was incredibly naive compared to most teenagers.
To my surprise, when I moved to Headquarters I was continually shocking my new friends without meaning to. My first night I walked into the room I was to share with a roommate and began undressing. This unnerved my new friend, who ran out of the room blushing. I learned many of the girls had never seen another female naked, and were not even allowed to change baby boy diapers.
When I described a driver who was so angry he cussed and said the "F" word, two girls said they didn't know of any swear words that started with F.
If you can imagine, many girls were not allowed to read any book that was fiction, had only ever seen G-rated movies (and even some of those were suspect), and had never been allowed dolls with breasts like Barbie. They weren't even allowed to look at magazines like National Geographic or to read anatomy books.
Some girls thought it was evil to even look at their own naked bodies or to talk about bras with another girl. They didn't know that in their late teens holding hands in a store might cause people to look at them funny. Yet they thought there might be some perversion in letting another girl see your underwear.
How would a girl with this type of history bring up that Bill Gothard, the man we all revered, had been inappropriate with her? Even with our most trusted friends we couldn't even say, "I like that guy," or "Do you think so and so is handsome?"
My roommates regularly called home to ask their dads if they should go to the store on such and such a day. I heard one call home and ask her mom if she thought a kind of bread was OK to eat. But they were terrified of telling their parents that some guy had been friendly with them, in case their parents might think if was their own fault and bring them home.
Imagine feeling that your parents were right about everything and God talked straight to you through them. These parents tell you Bill Gothard is the authority on just about everything in life. You can't make a decision on your own without asking an "authority." The parents also tell you that bad things happen to you if you are in rebellion, and that as long as you are doing everything right, God will bless you.
That is the context where this abuse could occur and never be reported.
We were involved with ATIA in the 80's, going to the seminars, using their homechool materials and bible study materials. Much of it is very good.Our children were never sent to their facilities, opting to attend college and be involved in local church and missions.
I have been reading the three testimonies represented here and the posts regarding them. There are a lot of bitter feelings and assumptions.
We used the ATIA materials while homeschooling our children - and - regarding decision making - I remember reading about the wisdom in talking things out with others. Regarding the above post, nowhere do I remember the above statement, "You can't make a decision on your own without asking an authority". Or some children might ask their parents whether a certain bread would be better for them to eat. There is no sin in that.
We all come from different backgrounds with varied experiences. My own children attended a Christian college and there were girls who covered themselves with towels more than others and were uncomfortable dressing in front of others. That doesn't indicate a warped parental teaching.
Charlotte's post is disturbing to me. It shows great lack of discernment on Gothard's part to be driving alone and spending time alone with a young vulnerable girl whom he knew, according to Charlotte, had been molested by her own father.
What I see are accusations from Charlotte without proof. And no proof by her friends because they didn't see the sexually inappropriate actions.
Unfortunately Charlotte didn't seek help before this point. Understand I am not saying I don't believe Charlotte. It wouldn't be the first time powerful "authorities" used their position to bully and take advantage of others.
I see her mother who is unwilling to protect her young daughter when she confides that her father is molesting her.
I see a girl who says she was molested by her own father who says nothing until her father is dead. He cannot defend himself now.
According to Charlotte, parents that thought she was the devil or being influenced by the devil who sent her away. Maybe they thought ATIA could help her.
I see a girl who is very depressed that she tries to kill herself several times. And does sex with multiple partners to make herself feel like she's worth something.
Hero worship is very dangerous. It gives those in authority an inflated ego and if their actions are questioned then you are disobedient to God and not loyal. It allows for situations to take advantage of others. This is one reason why we began to distance ourselves from ATIA.
Charlotte has a compelling story. It is good she is involved in counselling as she deals with being a victim of authority that used her instead of loving and protecting her.
>What I see are accusations from Charlotte without proof. And no proof by her friends because they didn't see the sexually inappropriate actions.>
How exactly is Charlotte supposed to provide "proof" of something that happened when she was alone with one other person? Especially since that person will most likely deny it?
And if you think the ATI materials are good, I would invite you to read some more of the articles on this website that focus on doctrine. Might give you some food for thought.
"I see a girl who says she was molested by her own father who says nothing until her father is dead. He cannot defend himself now. "
It takes so much courage for these women to come forward. No wonder! To not only have to recall what happened to them, but then to have their testimonies doubted. There are 34 women! 34. No way that 34 women are going to make these kinds of things up.
It is good that you saw the hero worship going on in ATI and got out. I'm very glad that the overwhelming majority of people believe these woman.
There are NOT 34 women who testify of having been sexually fondled. There is - so far at least - exactly *1*. THAT is what makes "Charlotte's" story different.
And you cannot deny that there are some irregularities there. Including how Bill can talk to her about her father's abuse, implying they both know about it, yet this becomes a "repressed memory" only surfacing 15 years later at his death? How she can be in open rebellion against her parents and ATI at home to the point that the family goes into emergency mode . . . yet confess to head over heals hero worship toward Bill . . . and somehow be unable or unwilling to tell a soul - including these "witnesses" - about what Bill did to her because she was worried . . . that he would kick the family out of ATI?! The open rebel on the one hand, the meek, wilting ATI wallflower on the other. Such pronouncements are incongruous.
Alfred,
#1 You argument about 'only 1 woman' is based on unilaterally deciding it had to be fondling a private part to be inappropriate. You're in the minority. You'd feel differently if your church pastor played footsie with your daughter and 30 other girls. Dude...seriously.
#2 I just re-read the article, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but Charlotte does not say when she re-pressed the memories. Before or after talking to Bill about them. I personally don't find this incongruous, at all. I repressed, yes, blocked and shoved down memories of the bad things that happened at my own parents home for years after I left. It happens. It's called survival. Charlotte very well could have repressed those memories from the time she returned home and her parents didn't believe her until the flood of emotions came after her father died. Trauma can cause both repression, and reflection. I find your continued argument of this to be weak.
#3 I also can very closely relate to the meek/rebel. what you miss here, having never suffered as a student in ATI, is that Charlotte refers to two different situations. The first being in open rebellion at home vs. how she acted away from it. We all put on a show when we weren't home. Me, my parents, Gothard (clearly), and many other homeschooling families I could mention to you by name and close association. The fact that she rebelled at home does in no way negate that she could have, and very probably was afraid of the repercussions of being kicked out of ATI. She would never have wanted to face the shame of getting walked out of HQ. The fear of the what might happen at home. What people would think. This is again the imbalance of power we have seen as a theme in other accounts. She was out of her element at HQ. She was a child in the role of an adult, minus the power. Bill had all the power, and he was unfaithful with it.
A parent and a child disagreeing is VERY different than a child and a stranger (Bill). That is emotional abuse in its purest form.
You find the sexual contact she described to be equivalent to handholding . . . and "footsie", Philip? So sorry . . . I am bowing out on that one. I guess you are entitled to your perspectives.
Yes, she says that remained repressed until her father passed away in 2006.
In 1992: "He knew what my father had done to me, but he called me into repentance for my own sins without confronting my father or addressing his sin. I was a temptation to men; Bill Gothard told me that I had tempted my own father."
Yet: "I repressed the memories of my father’s abuse until after he died in 2006."
The notion of a grown person "suppressing" memories that were previously openly talked about in counseling is bizarre.
Alfred, you misstated what I said. To re-phrase, I said, there are 30+ women that Bill has been sexually inappropriate with, at varying levels, and you write off all but 1 as being not really bad because they were "fatherly" or perhaps ill-thought out but well intended. Your perspective here is unfortunate.
And attributing what Bill did with these girls as counseling is also a mistake(we have seen several stories of Bill's desire for great detail of their sins and any physical intimacy during 'counseling' sessions). Blaming Charlotte for tempting her father is not counseling, its further abuse. The story clearly reads and follows a timeline. Bill blamed me for my fathers actions, took advantage of me, threatened to keep me quiet, I went home, my parents blamed me too, I had a falling out with my parents, (then) repressed the memories for 12+ years until my father died in '06.
As I said earlier, it makes complete sense. You repress things after you get out of a situation you can not explain, but try to move forward. After a closure (such as her father's death) some things come back in reflection.
I still don't find an issue with the timeline.
On Bill blaming her for her father's being abuse, I agree. Except I am pretty sure it never happened. Just isn't something Bill would do. That was another of those stereotypical "things" that is out of character. Like if you were crafting a story.
Just imagine a scenario with me where you have gone to a counselor about a painful event, talked about it often . . . and then literally forget it happened? Naw . . .
Alfred, I so wish that you were right. Unfortunately again, I know those personally who have been blamed by the ATI/IBLP machine for their part in being abused. Kids, wives, basically anyone but the husband/father. It's so sad, but that is the way that organization was structured.
The scenario (if we are imagining) is more along the lines of...you go to a counselor about an abuse, he abuses you also, then the original abusers abuse you more, you're a child, and when you finally get out, don't know how to process it, have to find a way to survive, you repress it. Yep, that happens. Have you asked a professional counselor if this is possible before completely disbelieving it?
Bill will blame kids for not speaking up . . . not screaming . . . whatever. I am at a loss to recall an instant where family members were blamed for "temptation".
Do you recall riding in the van with Bill when he pressed his thigh against another girl? Do you recall observing him rubbing a girl's foot with his foot? Does this mean because you are at a loss to recall it, that it didn't happen?
Bill has things he does, and he has things he teaches. Been watching and listening to him for 40 years. MANY of his friends - my wife included - have personally observed him interacting with young ladies in ways "inappropriate" for his station and role. Manners, not abuse. The fact that we continue keeping our young people on staff and available for minor counseling settings might tell you how we view it. I sincerely doubt he blamed "Charlotte" for tempting her father, or told her to cover something up, let alone fondled her sexually because that is just not who he is.
I guess I will leave it at that for now.
Um. Please clarify for me here. Are you saying that it's okay that Bill Gothard lives by a "do as I say, not as I do" standard?
I'm pretty sure that he specifically teaches against that kind of double-standard. I remember that, in the Basic Seminar, he teaches that parents should not be "do as I say, not as I do" examples to their kids, because "what parents allow in moderation, their children will excuse in excess." Of course, I guess that just puts us back at my original question.
Alfred, if you will, please re-read this article, which it seems you commented on several times.
https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/04/how-counseling-sexual-abuse-blames-and-shames-survivors/
Bill literally had this teaching in his booklets, and I don't see why he wouldn't use it in personal 'counseling' sessions if he was bold enough to have it declared in his teachings.
Wendy: Not at all. I don't like it. Think it is wrong . . . stinks. One imbalance leading to another.
Meagan: I read it . . . Step 5: "Is there any guilt?" . . . this being the victim, having guilt. What are the two talking points?
"Disobedience" (doing things, going places your authority told you not to)
and
"For Not Reporting It"
No option for "dressing immodestly" or whatever. It exactly confirms what I said.
Well if there's one thing you learned from Gothard, it is how to 'spin things to a new understanding.' And you have learned well, my friend. :(
There are 34 women who have contacted Recovering Grace. I never claimed that all of them involved fondling, but all of the women who have given specifics of their experience, describe very inappropriate sexual harassment, at the very least, and in Charlotte's case, it definitely falls into the category of sexual abuse of a minor.
It is hard to know where to begin to respond to you Alfred. Your paradigm is so off in how you are seeing these testimonies, as you casually disregard things, which should be very alarming.
You first characterize the sexual harassment from the the other women, as "bad manners". The entire Western World sees these things as sexual harassment, but you see them only as bad manners? So, again, how does one begin to address that? But then, when there is a testimony that even you can't dismiss as bad manners, Charlotte's sharing of how Gothard fondled her privates, unable to explain that one away, you shift tactics and say that she is lying. Your points that you bring up, as to why you find her story not credible, really come across as just grasping at straws. I find her story highly credible and, reading comments from other websites, it seems that the rest of the world does too.
Why don't you ask an expert in these matters if it is common for these things to be repressed for years- I know for fact that it is very common.
For every person following Gothard who takes your position of denial, there will be 8 or 9 that will eventually see the truth, as reflected in the comment of Brenda:
"I feel the shroud dropping and the Jesus I knew long ago being let back in. "
Not all will see the truth. We have to remember that when the truth started to come out about Jim Jones, most started leaving, but about 10% of his followers actually bought that one way ticket to Guyana and eventually drank cyanide laced Kool Aid. There are just going to be a certain percentage that do that with charismatic cult leaders: maybe they see their leader as almost a God, or he fills a need that they have for a "dad", but they will defend him and follow him, wherever that might lead. It's hard to know how to counter that level of devotion.
Alfred, I'm not sure this will appear in the right place, because there was no reply button on your post, but it is in response to this:
"Step 5: "Is there any guilt?" . . . this being the victim, having guilt. What are the two talking points?
"Disobedience" (doing things, going places your authority told you not to)
and
"For Not Reporting It"
No option for "dressing immodestly" or whatever. It exactly confirms what I said. "
Let's leave aside the fact that it is sick to tell a child they share any guilt in their molestation. It's actually even WORSE.
Look at #4:
"Why did God let it happen?
Result of defrauding by:
-Immodest dress
-Indecent exposure
..."
Not only are they guilty, their rape was God's punishment for being too sexy!
Tell me again why it would be out of character for Bill to tell an abuse victim she tempted her abuser?
I get a lot of exercise though when I read your posts, picking my jaw back up off the floor.
You should probably take a step back and consider the impression you're making here. Most parents outside the ATI bubble would be horrified if one-tenth of what's described at RG went on at any job or internship their teen was involved in.
Dress, behavior certainly comes up in the "random rape" scenario. Even the police tell you to use your head. Sort of like walking through the "hood" with money hanging out of your pockets.
But I have never, ever heard him blame a victim for being responsible for a crime in the family. Yes, fallen parents have done that . . . I have never heard Bill say or imply that. If anyone has been part of a counseling situation that allowed for that, I would like to hear.
One major thing stands out to me, Mr. Corduan, that seems you are overlooking as you maintain your high opinions of Mr. Gothard is that he **spent time alone with young women.** Note: TIME ALONE. Anyone who is trying to stay on the up and up KNOWS NEVER to EVER spend time ALONE with the opposite sex. That's like Christianity "manners" (as you call it) and common sense 101. And it seems according to the innumerable comments I have read that many, many past staff at headquarters testify to seeing this behavior (not to mention the individual testimonies of the brave 34). I'm sure it is really hard to believe news of this nature about someone you respected and trusted for decades. However, as someone looking into this organization from the outside, it is quite clear that sin was taking place. You don't "council" the opposite sex late at night or early in the morning alone. My goodness, the Rev. Billy Graham would have the tvs removed from his hotel room before he arrived-- talk about removing any question or doubt. That's what a man of integrity and high moral character does. A roommate of mine in college had worked at these headquarters in the years before I met her and she had definitely been damaged and hurt by the teachings of Bill Gothard. I thought then that the legalistic teachings she had endured sounded very un-Christlike. Now, I am certain it was a cult of sorts. I don't expect you to believe that b/c it's often hard for those on the inside to see it, but to the rest of us who by the grace of God were saved from such heretical teachings, it is obvious. I am so sincerely sorry to all who have been hurt and applaud the courage of the victims. It takes so much courage to speak out & bare your wounds.
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"Guys, guys, nothing will come of an attack by social media!"
"Guys, using social media to spread this story is not in Charlotte's best interests, and YOU KNOW HOW DEEPLY ANONYMOUS LITTLE ME CARES ABOUT HER."
"Dixie and Ryan, my anonymous little self is deeply concerned about you too, because YOU ARE MY FRIENDS. What if you get sued, my friends? I sure hope you are not FRIGHTENED. Sincerely, Anonymous Friend."
Well, as an outsider, I have to say Former Student has convinced me of one thing:
This is indeed a cult.
This part of what former student wrote, I actually believe:
He (BG) has almost unlimited financial resources and will keep going until he dies, ...
His pattern is to make weak, small, concessions in areas that are not central, and ignore/stonewall/ deny in areas that are. And when he takes action, that seems to be even worse (sending his brother to a remote area, without real accountability, and then send MORE attractive secretaries his way ??.. mindboggling, really). And has been noted, even his assurances are non-assurances (I've never touched a woman's privates..)
This man has WAY too much invested emotionally to detach himself from the kingdom he has made. IF he were a Tom Petty fan, he'd be humming "Won't Back Down..." Maybe Stevie got him the CD on the sly..
Sooner or later , all this hits a secular media outlet, and in a yr or two, we'll have an option (sadly) to see all this on TV or at the movies, because it's greek tragedy at its worst/best.
For now I am withholding judgment on Gothard. However, I find it hard to trust evidence presented by two witness that do not present their full names when publicly slandering the full name of a Christian leader. It's a little double side in this instance.
Also, RG talks about IBLP not being submitted to a church. What church is RG submitted to.
For now, let's focus on the teachings of the man, for the teachings were here before him, and will remain long afterwards.
You want them to post their full names so the money machine that is IBLP can hunt them down and destroy them/character/threaten their families etc.. before they can give their testimony in a court of law? I would NOT be putting my full identity out there in a case such as this. If it goes to court, then everyone's real identities will be revealed, when it would probably be too late for IBLP to bribe/threaten/blackmail people into silence. Please sit tight, and wait and see what the other 30 odd stories will bring.
Otherwise, I agree that we should certainly be focusing on the teachings and such. I fully believe that there will be an expose on his teachings, and how he designed them specifically so that he could get away with his evil deeds, so these stories are more or less building a case for the readers to understand this.
His teachings are as abominable as his actions -- in fact, his teachings are what gave him the control to begin with. As for posting full names, you haven't posted yours. I think I am completely correct in saying that if the victims posted their full names, phone numbers, and even pictures of Bill caught in the act, that there would still be those who would say this is all a conspiracy and a bunch of lies.
I would like to say thank you to these two witnesses for adding credibility to "Charlotte's" story. As someone who attended numerous ATI events in the 1990s and interacted with / observed BG a number of times, I felt that something was "off" in his interaction with "young ladies". Call it instinct, call it spiritual discernment, but I found him to be creepy and can clearly see why these witnesses would corroborate Charlotte's account.
The first time I felt that something was "off" was when I was 12-16 and attended several young ladies' apprenticeship seminars at Knoxville. BG loved it when the young ladies sang, and he would ask us to sing again and again, repeating songs -- to *him* -- not to God, even though we were singing hymns. I could not do this -- it made me sick and just felt too weird. What was also sick was the hero-worship given to him by many of the girls. Many of them (seemed to) love singing to him. He would then go on and on about how lucky the men who married us would be. Girls would file in long lines to ask him questions at a microphone on stage after sessions. Almost all the questions were about courtship and boys, and BG would flirt with the girls, even saying that he would love to be in the place of "the fella who gets to court you". He would tell girls they were attractive and make comments about their appearance and "countenance".
I told my parents about this, and my dad was convinced that there could be nothing wrong, and that BG was just a really nice, innocent man. But I knew in my gut that something was off.
When I was 12, my dad took me up to the stage after a seminar to meet BG. BG was inattentive and distracted, and blew us off. My dad said for sure BG must be very busy and not to let it get to me. Later, when I was 20 with "long flowing curls", I stood in line at an Anger seminar to ask BG a question, and he held up the entire line (with tons of people waiting after me) to speak to me for a really, really long time for what could have been a brief question. He told me that after I finished the project I was involved in, I should consider serving in his ministry. He also asked me a specific question about personal struggles in more detail than I really felt was appropriate or necessary (i.e., essentially getting me to confess that I struggled with thoughts about guys). I definitely felt awkward that he had paid so much attention to me in front of so many people. I was singled out and favored while others were given much more cursory interaction.
I did not have a great deal of interaction with him and never worked at HQ, but at one event where we were praying in groups a couple of years later, BG and some other men stood around me, placing hands on my shoulders and upper back, and prayed for me. I felt ok about the other men's behavior, but BG put his hands in my hair during the prayer, stroked it, and mumbled "soft curls" when the prayer was over. I felt violated and upset. After the prayer, BG asked me what my plans for the future were, and I told him all I wanted was to get married and have kids. I said this because it was true, and I honestly thought BG would be proud of me for espousing such patriarchal values. Instead, he was visibly disappointed. Visibly. He asked, "What about serving in ministry? There are so many great opportunities." I don't remember what i said, but he kind of blanked me and disapproved because I hadn't said I wanted to serve in his ministry.
Earlier at that same event, BG had passed me in a hallway and called out "YOU have a radiant spirit!" I was wearing a tight black skirt, heels, and a form-fitting sweater. He clearly wanted to stop and talk because he swerved towards me, but I instinctively kept walking because I was used to having creepy old guys hit on me and this felt no different, so I treated it just as I would other similar situations. The way he was acting made me feel vulnerable. The fact that he said "radiant spirit" didn't make it feel like a "spiritual" compliment. He might as well have said, "You're hot!!" because that's what his comment felt like.
My interaction with and knowledge of BG is clearly not as far-reaching as some of these others, but just based on those few episodes, and that gut feeling that something was wrong with the way BG was interacting with me and other "young ladies", gives plausible credence to Charlotte's story in my mind.
Would someone please hire a lawyer and take this narcissistic cult leader to a court of law so he will be stopped from harming more innocent people? That he is a cult leader is proven by people discussing Matt. 18 when young girls are being sexually harmed. To those who know this and do not take the man to court, how will you stand before God knowing others have been harmed because you were scared to speak? You MUST work to take this man before the law. It is the only thing that will stop a narcissistic cult leader.
I am a 62 year old pastor -- about the age of Gothard at the time of many of these stories. I cannot even FATHOM such conduct towards teenage girls -- by anyone my age, whether a pastor or not. Are you kidding? Have Gothard supporters become so NUMB to these things, and blinded by the spirit of deception, that they are willfully ignorant? Are you so dedicated to the religion Bill has taught you that you have allowed it to become an enemy of Jesus Christ? How could anyone be so blind to not see that this man has a serious problem? In almost any church or Christian organization this would not be tolerated for a second. But Bill continues it without hesitation because he knows he can get away with it. Even now his supporters -- even ones that admit his conduct around young ladies is inappropriate -- simply dismiss that conduct as, "same old, same old." You have empowered him. For all you Gothard defenders out there -- you need to face the truth before Jesus Christ. This is not the conduct of a man who is misunderstood. It is not the conduct of a man who is unaware of what he is doing. He is so aware that it is wrong that he has forbidden such conduct by those under him -- in writing and through discipline. He has dotted every I and crossed every T. He has been TOLD about his conduct by his peers -- he has been exposed once before publicly. A 60 year old Christian leader playing footsie with teenage girls....and that is not even close to the worst. What exactly do you think is in his heart? His intentions? Wake up and smell the coffee. It is right there before your eyes.
Amen Pastor Allen. You're spot on.
" Have Gothard supporters become so NUMB to these things, and blinded by the spirit of deception, that they are willfully ignorant? Are you so dedicated to the religion Bill has taught you that you have allowed it to become an enemy of Jesus Christ?"
The sad answer to this questions is "yes".
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This is a common problem in many church's because no one wants to believe the victim but only the man they worship. No man should be in charge of dicipling young girls. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. If the duck masquerades around as the pope.....still a duck. People that are desperately needy are vulnerable to this duck and refuse to believe the truth. You cannot convince them that their pastor or religeous mentor is a duck. I applaud these people for coming out with the truth about this godly man being a duck. He should be exposed for what he is. Shame on those who defend him. I also studied this ministries books that were very good but, alas a duck is a duck and I must no longer speak of him being anything but the pervert he is. I just hope someone presses charges against him to bring it to the light of day.
40 years ago we took a newly "renewed in faith" Catholic couple who had left pre-nun and pre-priesthood life for marriage, to a Basic Youth Conflicts seminar, and they shared that all the moral teaching in those big red notebooks and on the Gothard closed-circuit presentation reminded them very much of the strict moral code they'd been taught as good Catholic kids. Interesting to reflect now on the increasingly substantiated gross use of religious power by the Roman Church in the abuse of children, and what is coming out about Mr. G.
Even then, I recall serious questions in evangelical circles about BG's insular organization, his rigidly applied theology, and the fact that nobody could get him into a room even to debate his interpretations of Scripture as they are supposed to be lived out.
We just took him with a grain of salt, appreciating some of the teachings, but looking askance at his personal lifestyle in which he insisted that God wanted unmarried adults to live with their parents, and his muslim-like view of women as culpable occasions for temptation.
Poor fellow. Seems he had painted himself sincerely but inexorably into a corner where his normal sexual urges, resisted successfully for so long during his prime when a robust marriage of mutual accountability could have given him a full Christian life - could no longer remain repressed.
I wonder if, back in the day, had he allowed himself to be accountable to godly mentors, might he have accepted honest feedback? Who knows how much lasting fruit his ministry might have borne over time.
What bothers me most is how blind he - and his associates - were to his self-deception, and how easily they blamed the pretty young things who'd had no part in being placed in his cushy lair. To think the girls' parents had drunk enough of the kool-aid to turn them from their own daughters is heartbreaking.
But a lot of us saw this coming, and discounted his ministry out of hand. It is appalling that it has taken this long.
Interesting points, Elizabeth. I wonder if the authority principle stemmed out of Gothard's own upbringing and family life. I'm purely hypothesizing here, but I wonder if perhaps one or both of his parents were controlling of him (and perhaps enmeshed) and that's why Gothard never left home or married. In order to justify this and normalize it for himself, he says that single people should live with their parents, and that it is honorable to delay marriage for Christian service.
Am I correct in remembering that Gothard would take vows to remain single for periods of years? I think I remember him saying at a few conferences that he had prayed over the matter, hadn't received permission to marry, and had taken another vow to remain unmarried for another "x" years.
I think that this is where, as you say, Godly counsel/accountability and reliance on what the Bible actually says is so important. The Bible is pretty clear that it is "better to marry than to burn with passion". For someone who is struggling so much, carrying out voluntary singleness vows might not be wise.
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