"It was in an evil hour that you ever came here!" --David Copperfield, by Charles Dickens
When I think back over my life, and what happened to me when I was 20, when I met Bill Gothard, I think of this quote from the character of Rosa Dartle in David Copperfield. With my good, acute memory that never allows me to forget, I can put myself back in that room, that hour, the one that changed the course of my life, and I now think of it as an evil hour. It brought harm to me, to my family, and to my friends.
My predator issued a new-ish statement this morning on his website, and for a brief moment I thought about issuing my own retaliatory statement on my blog in response to his very personal attack towards me and the other women who bravely shared the secrets he was hoping we would keep. He continues to deceive in his veiled sentences with their double meanings and the pious use of God’s language, in his attempt to make everyone believe he is still a holy man.
But it is futile to try and argue with a narcissist, in what could end up being an endless slinging match of she said/he said. So, instead of focusing on the personal element this is to me, I am choosing to use this opportunity to bring awareness to how a sexual predator works. Even in Bill’s new statement and the ‘testimonies’ from the eight women that accompany it, I am very concerned to still clearly see the elements of grooming in his letter and in some of their letters.
Let me lay it out here – there is a clear process of sexual grooming that a predator uses. Every woman I have spoken with who has experienced some form of sexual harassment or abuse agrees that these are predominant aspects of a groomer. At some point in this process, your groomer will start touching you—at first it will be very mild, very innocent, very grandfatherly. As it was for me; a pat on the hand, a side-hug, a special ‘look’ that exchanges between you. If you have been selected by the predator, this will progress to full bodily hugs, to holding hands, to rubbing his leg up and down your leg, to caressing your hand and your fingers, to putting his face close to yours. This can progress to further violation.
This is the method that seldom fails when a predator selects their target.
Maybe you can see them also.
Kindness
Predators are good listeners. They will spend hours talking with you, paying attention to your words and your story. They will ask questions, they will empathize. And they are sincere. So very sincere. You will feel grateful to them, and humbled that they have shown such interest in you.
Special
A predator will make you feel special and favored by them. They will use words like this: “I have probably spent more one on one time with you than any other young woman you would know.” They will make you feel that you are the only person in the world that makes them happy. They will tell you that you give them energy. If you have a faith of any kind, they will use God’s name to reinforce that. They will say things like, “God has brought you here,” or “I have been waiting for God to bring someone like you to me/this ministry,” or “what a blessing from God you are to me.”
Secrets
At this point in the relationship they will feel safe enough to start probing for your secrets. If you open up to them, trusting them because they have been kind to you and you believe you are special to them, you will share your secrets. My groomer would say things like, “can I ask you a personal question?” This would be followed by questions along the lines of, “have you ever done something you’re ashamed about,” or “are you a virgin?’ With the initial, qualifying question making it feel like you have a choice whether to answer or not, lulls you into believing it is safe to share.
They may even share a secret or two with you from their life. It is unlikely they will share anything too personal – remembering that a narcissist/sociopath has denied their authentic self and is living a double-life. Any secret they share will be innocuous. My groomer shared a ‘secret’ with me when he admitted that he sometimes felt nervous speaking in front of thousands of people. I felt privileged that he would share that with me and nobody else, but what is that secret compared with ‘are you a virgin?’
Gifts
To cement this growing relationship your predator will start giving you things. It depends on the circumstances you are in at the time, but for me, I was given a bedroom makeover, clothing, gifts of money, phone calls to my family overseas paid for by my groomer. The gifts are a way of reinforcing to you that they have been kind to you, that you are special to them, that you share a secret bond.
Fear
Fear can come in many forms when you are in a relationship with a groomer. But ultimately this step is designed to make you fear that one day the relationship will come to an end. Your groomer will start dropping subtle nuances about this. His fear will seem very real to you but it is designed to make you worry about losing them.
This will make you work harder to please them.
Isolation
The next step is to isolate you from family and friends. If this cannot be done physically, it will be mentally. Your groomer will start confiding in you about other people and their faults. They will use words like ‘trust’. My groomer said things like, “other girls will want to be your friend just to get close to me.” This made me look on my peers with mistrust, believing they had ulterior motives to befriending me. It also devalues my worth in my own eyes. It says, I am not worthy of being a friend. They don’t really like me, they like him.”
Soul ties
By now you and your predator think as one person.
Well, you believe you do.
He is the center of your world.
Absolute Loyalty
Do not listen to others who tell you they have concerns about your relationship with this person. They don’t know him! They don’t know how sincere and kind and special he is. They don’t know his generous heart and his vulnerability.
When you find yourself thinking this, you have fallen into his web of lies and deceit.
Your groomer has won your heart, he has won your trust, he has won your mind.
In my case, I was fortunate enough that I had an intervention in the form of the USA Immigration Service—God bless their honest red tape!
If my story and the lost twenty years of loyalty to my groomer has any redeeming fact, I hope that it has this—to bring greater awareness to the process of predatory grooming.
Let us cast light into the corners of those shadows. Let us drive out the evil lurking in our churches and schools and homes and communities and our lives.
In your hour of evil,
when the shadow darkens your door,
remember my story, and remember my words of warning.
'Meg’s' family was in ATI for more than ten years. In 2014, she bravely shared her story with Recovering Grace
here, in the Sacred Grooming series. After leaving Bill Gothard's office, Meg continued to work for IBLP for several years before she met and married her wonderful, non-ATI, Mr. Right. She is now busy raising their family and enjoying a happy and ATI-standard-free life.
July 31, 2024
This is an amazingly clear analysis of a sexual groomer that is completely representative of Bill's actions for the past 40+ years. It fits Ruth's experience (Ruth's Story) and others to a "T" and I know she would agree. Each of the categories "Meg" describes is right from the standard Gothard play book! Great Job "Meg" and thanks for sharing!
Larne, I read The story about Ruth and it has saddened me again and again. Only God can redeem such sadness. I cannot even say more, it's so grievous.
Thanks but Ruth was only one, but there are too many more that have endured Bill's grooming and his spiritual, emotional and mental abuse and rejection. Ruth sits at her Savior's feet today with no regrets or heartaches. There are still those who remain behind with scars that have lasted far too long due to Bill's un-repentance. RG provides a place where they can see their experience was not suffer alone and they were not the problem. Christ provides healing regardless of what Bill does or doesn't do and Bill will have to answer for his actions before a Holy God. Matthew 7:13-23
I can't come up with words suitable enough to encompass the scope of compassion Ruth and everyone else needed to have heard.Please accept my sadness and sorrow over what should have...,could have,been[?];now my life is bowed a little more in the midst of the superficial,contrived, cut and dried posturing those pretenders of the masquerade Gothard orchestrated,looking the other way as he strode ever so non-challantly over the fallen and trampled asunder.I never will be able to fathom the loss.Please accept my wish for your comfort.
Thank you
Creepy stuff. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us concerning predators. Individuals who do these things do not know the Lord from a hole in the ground. The inconsistencies and hypocrisies make real Christianity look bad. If this was during the days of the Roman Empire I would rather take refuge with the lions in the arena, then an arena full of these extremists and predators.
Your brave and courageous. Thank you for shining the light on darkness and standing firm in the desire to expose sexual misconduct. May God continue to bless your life.
I knew Bill would try and make a comeback when he thought that everything had settled down. I guess the truth is that there are always going to be people who remain fiercely loyal to him, and that is their choice. But I hope that your story, and stories like yours, will deter others from falling in his traps. Thank you for sharing. God bless.
Larne- are you saying your deceased wife, Ruth, would say Bill was a predator to her specificly?
Ruth was 18 when Bill called her back to Oak Brook. Her grooming started the minute she set foot on the property and lasted till she left nine and a half years later. The steps that “Meg” described are what Ruth shared with me and looking back I saw that same pattern with other women on staff. Ruth would call what she experienced both with Bill and his brother as sexual harassment, more so with the brother(who I have heard has repented). In the "stone ages" a sexual “predator” would have been more descriptive of a violent rapist or child molester. In the more recent era the term predator probably encompasses a broader swath. According to Wikipedia; “A sexual predator is a person seen as obtaining or trying to obtain sexual contact with another person in a metaphorically "predatory" or abusive manner. Analogous to how a predator hunts down its prey, so the sexual predator is thought to "hunt" for his or her sex partners. People who commit sex crimes, such as rape or child sexual abuse, are commonly referred to as sexual predators, particularly in tabloid media or as a power phrase by politicians.”
Since Bill did not seem to want to take his harassment “all the way” I would be uneasy to use that term as a power phrase or put words in Ruth’s mouth. What he did was inappropriate, wrong, damaging, selfish and more important a SIN against a very Holy God that he will have to answer for! As an employer it would be called sexual harassment! As an “on the hunt” male he would be called lecherous or according to my 16 year old, creepy or weird.
In the past year Bill has asked a group of us three times if we saw him as a sexual predator. This is something that he strongly objects to and is a stumbling block for his public repentance. I think we need to not to call him a name that could not standup in court. There is no doubt that he has harassed women and we have told him so on all three occasions. The lives he had damaged and in some cases destroyed are real people with real hurts. He has an obligation before God to repent publicly for a public ministry. Once people see that he has humbled himself before a Holy God then private repentance might be possible. This is not something he has been willing to do and thus remains unrepentant to me.
Larne
I think it might be four times, Larne. Well-phrased answer, though, imho. Your openness and input here is greatly appreciated.
Larne, I have deeply appreciated your words here on this site and for the story of your dear wife. I have always enjoyed your responses here. I also thank the other victims who have come forward to share their stories. It is a brave thing to speak out against a powerful man and organization.
However, as a Law Enforcement Officer with over 20 years experience, I would have to say that yes, BG's actions are that of a sexual predator. Maybe one that kept himself "in check" to a certain degree, but a predator nonetheless. Just my professional opinion. Your stance on the matter as someone directly affected by him is more graceful than I would be willing to render, and I commend your character for doing so.
Blessings to you and your family.
Thanks, Believe me it took 35 years and the Grace of God to get me to this point. This is not my story, but all the women over the past 40 years that have been impacted by Bill. "Meg" has succinctly written this analysis of Sexual Grooming specifically related to Bill. She did an amazing job but at what cost for her and all the others. Life is a learning process and then applying those lessons to our lives and the others we touch, we affect change. She and others have done their part of standing in the gap and preventing others from enduring what they have gone through. They were brave and honest and relied on God's strength to tell their stories.
"In the past year Bill has asked a group of us three times if we saw him as a sexual predator. This is something that he strongly objects to and is a stumbling block for his public repentance."
I find this "stumbling block" answer very interesting, Larne. I'm curious if your group asked him directly, "So what word would you use to describe your behavior? What word would make you comfortable enough to publicly repent?" I'd be fascinated to hear what his answer to this is. If the charge of "sexual predator" was lessened to "sexual addiction," would he be happy? Or will he not repent until we use the phrase "grandfatherly affection" or "spiritual failure"? In other words, how far back would he ask people to take the phrasing before he repents?
Bev that is a great question and I’m sure as you know Bill is a moving target during any discussion. He changes the subject and the emphasis on what he is trying to avoid and he uses scripture out of context to that end. His seminar example of the “diamond in there rough” where those above you keep chipping away at those below is completely fitting with our conversations over the past year. Bill was not comfortable with the term “Sexual Predator” because he views himself as trying to help. Once that is “chipped out of the way” he was not comfortable with “Sexual Harassment” for the same reason; he was just trying to help them. He also was not comfortable with the discussion that he harbored any “romantic feelings” toward these same women, his “intent” was “misunderstood”.
I don’t think he would admit to “spiritual failure”, but would relish the description of “Grandfatherly Affection”. As of May 29th when we had our last call with Bill and ended our contact with him based on Matthew 18:17 Bill was still unrepentant. His billgothard.com statements on June 2nd and again on June 20th are further examples of shifting the blame to others while not acknowledging the damage he had done to others by posting glowing reports about himself. In his June 2nd statement he use the term “I” over 30 times in reference to the positive things he had done.
In previous conversations it became obvious to us that Bill felt a simple “I’m sorry will you forgive me” meets the requirement of Matthew 18:21-22. To us Bill fails to apply James 5:16, “Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” In both the James and I John verses the confession of sin is indicated by being specific. Bill does not want to be specific because it would be then admitting publicly that he was no longer qualified as a teacher/preacher/elder based on 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1.
One of the things that blows my mind is how different he requires everyone treat him to what he taught everyone else. If you were "under the authority" of an abusive spouse or parent, you would be expected to apologize and accept blame for whatever that person demanded of you, often with the explanation that even if you are only 1% to blame and the other person 99%, at least you can take the blame in your own mind for the 1%. If you had any problems at all in submitting to that, you were seen to be rebellious and proud.
Today, Bill has removed himself out from under any authority and he sits in his own mind in a high position, requiring everyone else to accept his premise that he was in the right before a discussion can even happen about the situation he is in.
This is partly how it seems to me: To everyone else, Bill says to run, not walk, to seek out those whom you have offended and make things right. But when it is Bill's turn, he wants to sit as judge over his own proceedings. As judge, he sets the rules for what people are even allowed to raise as a problem and the terminology they may use in doing so. Bill then evaluates the concerns, and having already found himself innocent he predictably finds his "accusers" guilty of all sorts of bad motives. This is a closed system. If he ever did violate boundaries in a way that caused harm to someone, they will never be granted a hearing with him because the very terms of the discussion are pre-determined in such a way that the accuser can never escape suspicion and Bill can never be truly called into account. In Bill's world, rank has it privileges and he always outranks you. I don't say all that to be vindictive or wrongly accusing. That is honestly how it appears to me.
I think you have it about right, Matthew.
Matthew, you’re the one in Seminary and I am not a theologian but what I find interesting is that Matthew 18:15 does not set a positional requirement on who can confront a sinner. “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother”. In verse 16 it says take a witness or two but again does not set a positional requirement. “But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established”. Lastly in verse 17 it gives the authority for anyone regardless of position to tell the church if the steps in verses 15 and 16 are followed. “And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican”.
This should be a chilling reminder for those in Christian leadership that they are not immune to be confronted with sin. Unfortunately, it is sometimes the Church that is part of the problem in covering sin. This is the case with Bill’s old church the La Grange Bible Church and other Christian leaders around the country who were informed of Bill’s sin.
Larne,
I know that your heart is in the right place. However, if we separated the man from the offenses and just looked at the offenses from a forensic point of view, would we still minimize them? I don't believe so. There is no corporation in American that wouldn't have called the police on him.
Denial, minimization and blame shifting are classic characteristics of sexual offenders/preditors/harassers... Whatever title you give it, they ALL stem from the same root cause. A blatant disregards for others, a sense of entitlement, and a (spiritual) superiority complex.
Like all offenders, of course Bill is going to have issues being called a sexual preditor. From what I have learned about sexual predators, being able to admit and accept that they are sexual preditors usually only happens down the road in professional therapy. Most of them go into therapy denying they even did anything.
Heck, we can't even get Bill to admit he twists scripture, but we all know he does. And when confronted about twisting scripture he always has well crafted words to make sure that he comes away from the meeting as a victor in his own mind. Let him think whatever he wants, but let's not allow him to wiggle his way out until he gets help.
Bill can call also call his offenses whatever he wants, but the Lord has one name for it SIN! And unless he can admitt his sin before the Lord and ask for forgiveness he will not be able to be healed. The men and women who truly love him and want God's best for his life need to hold him to this.
Sometimes people are so injured that they can't walk themselves in to the emergency room for treatment. Spiritually, I think this is where Bill is and unless we put him on a stretcher and carry him into the spiritual ER for treatment, he will never get it!
Standing In The Gap
I can't disagree with anything you said especially the part about SIN! He has been told so many times but can not admit to it. His story keep changing to fit whatever outside pressure he is under.
It is a no-brainer to me - the wording. Regardless of what was thought to be a sexual predator 'back in the day', the words define themselves and Bill has perfectly fit into their description. A predator seeks prey. In this case, the predator was seeking the prey for sexual gratification - whatever kind of sexual gratification it was, it was still sexual gratification. Was it for footsie, intercourse, fantasy, touching, rubbing? It was sexual in nature and a predator was seeking out unsuspecting prey. I am not sure why that would even possibly not stand up in a court of law.
Larne, I enjoy reading everything you have written on this site. I realize I am responding to an older comment. I do not want to see this made less than it is. Not at all out of hate - I pray for Bill. It is what it is and needs to be called what it is or off we go again minimizing something done in the Vision Forum, IFB, IBLP, ATI circles. We will not see these abuses end by minimizing them.
Julia,
I pray for Bill every night too, that the scales will come off his eyes. I hold no anger or bitterness since I wrote him a 26 page letter in 2006. I truly want him to fix this problem by confessing and repenting before he dies. Matthew 7:16 says;"You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?" So is his fruit the 2.5 million or the dozens, hundreds or more he has damaged and abused? In John 16:8 Jesus tells us the Holy Spirit is to convict us from sin. Where is that conviction and compassion to those he offended and his confession and repentance?
I thank you also for defining the grooming pattern. It will help the Truth to be known, I pray. I am still unsettled since the last bg revelation, 2/3/2014. I am so sorry. Please know I am praying for you all.
Meg: this is extremely valuable material. You should think about publishing a short book on all of this since it is still so prevalent.
To Ruth who posed a question above:
Because I risk sounding like I fail to "get" the question you ask of Larne here, I'll offer this disclaimer: Obviously, the take that the victim has on what they've experienced is most legitimate, since it's 1st person.
However, if there's a guy with a machete racing up & down the street, lunging at every caucasian female between ages 14 & 30 that're still standing, many of them already lying in the street bleeding by the time we who are now taking in the scene have turned the corner....... I don't think this scenario begs any questions to try to find the words to describe what the crazy perp has been doing.
Meg, I attended twice a seminar called "protecting God's children" which was about the signs and workings of pedophils and how they start out to entrap children. Everything you have listed from your own experience where the pedophil took advantage by being nice, giving gifts and compliments fits the profile. What the seminar also pointed out was that the pedophil looked for vulnerable kids and you being away from home alone fits this as well. (Along with the others here).
Well, where are the men of God standing behind BG in testimonials? And where are the Bible scholars backing up his conferences and written words? Bible scholars are those who have tried to talk with him through the years and shed light on his misuse of the scriptures. His take on Abigail is absolutely antithetical to what the Bible is trying to say. My husband has maintained that for years.
BG is awash when it comes to Bible exegesis. He should have his own quiet times, keep his thoughts and "rhemas" to himself (isn't that who they are for in the first place? I mean, when God speaks to our hearts are we to rule the world or our own little kingdom through this?), and go on quietly living his life and working out his own salvation. I so hope he finds God's amazing grace and gives up the whole works thing.
Thank you Meg.
What you have written will bring good from your suffering. Many are learning and being freed. Every time I think of how God set you free using immigration law a praise just wells up in me and faith, as well. God can, and will, use anything He wants to for His purpose. Praise to His good Name!
Larne- I take it that when your Ruth left, that was the last time she was ever on IBLP property, so as to stay away from Bill?
That is a "No and Yes" answer along with being very complicated. My draft is already 500 word and I'm not even close to being done. I think I would be banned from RG if I posted it. In 1988 Ruth, our daughter Amy (then 5) and myself were invited back to a medical seminar at the Northwood where her abuse occurred, why were invited is what's complicated. She wanted to face the "demons" she had left behind 8 years earlier. It ended up being therapeutic for her. But she became even more troubled by what she saw in the abuse of the ATI students that were serving the conference. One other time we were in Chicago for a wedding and drove through HQ but did not stop. For me traveling to Chicago often I have driven "through" HQ several times and specifically enjoyed a Starbucks in Hinsdale. I just wished it was there when I was.
"Meg" elucidates well Gothard's grooming patterns. While I have no personal knowledge of the case referenced below, the article reveals similarities between Schaap and Gothard that are worth noting:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-03-20/news/chi-schaap-church-teen-sex-20130320_1_jack-schaap-pastor-sexual-relationship
Groomers groom. Die-hard followers write letters of support and make excuses for their leader, alike "stress" and "prostatitus" and "look how much good he's done." "She came to him for counseling..."
It is so tragically ironic that IBLP/ATI /Gothard purports to have such a great conern for guarding the hearts of young women (a major tenet of the courrtship approach) and yet such a black history of actually protecting their hearts. I think this would be termed "defrauding" in Gothardese. Gothard may not have been having sexual intercourse with the young women, but clearly he was operating as a -- if not technically "predator" --a groomer and exploiter in a predatory pattern, and causing great emotional pain.
While I would not wish this on his victims, I cannot help but wish that a few selfies would document Gothard's crimes, as happened with Schaap. But even if there were selfies, there will always be followers who make excuses for their leaders and write letters of support. My heart goes out to those followers. It is a terrible trap to be deceived.
The "grandfatherly affection" claim is so creepy and weird. Really sad how this seems to make these actions ok to so many of his followers. He is neither a father nor a grandfather. To liken himself to one is such a stretch especially considering his view on adoption. He really has no right at all to make this claim. Are you her grandfather? Uh, no. Are you a grandfather? Strike 2. I am not saying all men who are nice to young girls they are not related to are a problem. But this guy has flirted with disaster so many times you think people would see through it.
This is akin to some creep caught in a junior high boys locker room during shower time. Upon being questioned he could claim, it's ok, coaches are allowed to be in here while the boys run around naked. Well then, are you a coach? Uh, no I am not...
I know. How many of us had grandfathers play footsie with us when we were in our late teens and early twenties.
Seriously! Good point.
I met BG thru 2 of his academic associations, and he persistently tried to talk me into working at the IBYC in Oak Brook. One time he arranged to meet with me personally and I came with a close girlfriend; I was told later by the college guy that BG did not understand why I brought along someone who was not invited. That same guy laughingly mentioned, “Bill always surrounds himself with beautiful women.” And yes, he really thought it was just a humorous proclivity. BG tried to get my dad to talk or meet with him and pushed for over a year to talk me out of college; by the absolute Grace of God, my dad was adamant that I not get involved with the IBYC. BG waited for about 6 or 7 months and then contacted me again—by then I was engaged—so that finally ended his efforts to recruit me. I marvel at the graciousness of so many who experienced grave abuse at the mind, hands and feet of BG. On the other hand and foot, not nearly so gracious, I picture him in the old family home, flatulence-ing into his vintage recliner, and driven to imagine new and adept ways to slither away from any personal responsibility. This is is all true; no one blocked it or tried to block it.
P.S. I am not anonymous; I am a normal Christian girl who grew up in a lovely Chicago suburb, in a good home that was not perfect but, seriously, no one, and I did not, deserve this predator.
Larne- what sort of abuse of ATI students did you and her notice at the Northwoods conference?
Doctors and their wives from all over the country flew to the Northwoods for their continuing education training requirements. Bill had told us ATI students were also invited to attend with the Doctors and would be attending the same classes. Bill was hoping to start a Bill Gothard School of Medicine and bypass the traditional way of going thru college then medical school. So ATI parent paid for this experience. We were also told that the kids that flew into Chicago had to pay the institute for bus transportation to the Northwoods.
The ATI students had "important apprenticeships" to perform. The girls cleaned the guests room and helped in the dinning hall and the boys were busboys and kitchen helpers. Very few attended classes on topics such as vasectomy reversals, ect.,and just wanted to hang out together when they weren't working. They liked to go on bike rides, and get away. When we were on staff we were paid. These kids was paying to be on "staff", that was the "abuse" of the ATI program we saw.
It's called educational fraud. That seemed to be the mode of operation for the students of ATI, they were sent to his ministries for further training in place of college but in reality they became worker bees and basically slaves for his ministry and that is abuse.
You have a way with words! You said it way more concisely!
What was therapeutic for her? The Northwoods scenery?
The Northwood is nice but we live in Washington and have snow covered mountains. We don't have many mosquitos or black flies. There is no comparison in scenery, other then Alaska.
The therapeutic value was just in having the strength to returning to a place filled with bad memories and abuse. She did it as a mom with her daughter and me by her side knowing that she could not be hurt in the same way again. Ruth also made peace there with Bill's sister Ann who had viciously verbally attacked her the night of the second confession, May 17, 1980. She also saw Bill for who he was, unchanged and unrepentant.
In one of our calls with Bill last month he asked me if I remember Ruth telling me she forgave him during our time in the Northwood. This was the first time since her death he has mentioned that and I found it interesting since she rarely left my side during our visit. She had made it very clear that she did not want to be alone with him. I know she had forgiven Bill to God in her heart but was waiting for him to specifically repent for his part in the scandal which he never did other then to say I'm sorry. To me Bill was again trying to rewrite history and my memory of the time is still strong.
Bill is SO quick to forgive himself and impose that forgiveness of himself on others without feeling like he has to face any consequences. That's just messed up. :-(
Yep, historical revisionist! Matthew 7:13-23 could apply in the end.
I think I was also a victim of sexual abuse under Bill Gothard, if in a very different way. I married someone I did not want to marry because BG said my parents had divine knowledge of who I should marry. I told them before the wedding that I did not want to marry him, but they were so sure it was God's will, that I thought it was an act of faith to go ahead. Twenty years of sexual relations and seven pregnancies with someone you felt coerced to marry - the sexual coercion of ATI went far beyond headquarters. His influence in so many lives was massive.
<<>> So sorry to hear of your situation - my heart goes out to you!! I've always been single but have had dates with folks I would not have wanted to marry. To have 20 years of "an unpleasant date" and 7 children with such a person - how very sad. :-( I understand also about thinking your authority person has all truth and wisdom - been there. God be with you and give you strength.
(it was supposed to have a virtual hug of Kay's name instead of just <<>>)
I am sorry about your situation. Unlike the promotion by the Duggars and the Bates, I would wager your story is much more common in that these quiver full arranged marriages end up putting couple together that really don't love one another and are not even friends and the situation is further complicated by having several children together in the mix. Legal annulments are not easy to get and go by State law in contrast to a divorce. Arranged marriages like your where your free will was over come and you felt forced to in that in the name of submission would be grounds for annulment in some Christian circles. That is what is so insidious about all of this. Again, I am most truly sorry.
I don't know if you would ever consider messianic or hebrew roots style of christianity.....http://shiningstarsmagazine.com/.... it is more of our language structure....wrapped into truth of who christ truly was....and not a pope or religious fictitious creature...description...
While some girls end up in the grooming problem (due to extreme fear of wicked world).....others end up in the must-be-exactly-like-men problem. both have problems. The one side, the girls are not taught that there is good in other cultures and lifestyles, the other is taught that she can be her own god and distort reality (much of public school structures follow this lead....and I believe THIS is far more wicked in the long run....)
I hope you can find forgiveness in heart and mind for how you were damaged.....but to be honest.....most of us were damaged.....sin is in the world.....and there is nothing right about abortion....there is nothing right about women not having the ability to give birth freely and without hinderance and to live unhindered as her culture says she can......
I too was abused....as a child....eight years old.....my teachers were public school teachers.....their children were taught it is 'ok' to experiment ....mess around....do as you like. this too is evil and corruption....... you can carry on and live an ABUNDANT LIFE just as christ would have us to live..... (read words in red independently without a 'social system')....
forgiveness of the enemy....prayer for enemy.... builds hope for the future. lawyers do NOT heal pain..... blurting out all our abuses to the media....DO NOT HEAL PAIN...... the redeemer heals pain....the creator....
ps. if you may have noticed.... when josh duggar was caught on ashleymadison.....there were thousands of other men who used the exact same site. Many of them were PUBLIC or even PRIVATE schooled. This is why I emphasize FORGIVENESS..... because the private schooled or christian view says that it is WRONG to experiment or groom (yet they do it anyway, but behind closed doors) ..... the public or non-christian view says it is OK to experiment AND groom (they do this openly, and with open doors attempting to invite others in!)........
we cannot trust 'men'....... we need wise older women who keep us out of danger..... protect us from evils in people's hearts and minds..... we all can get wickedness built up....especially if we do not seek to 'study scripture' or even to 'serve others'.... people can turn into marilyn manson overnight....simply because they do not repent..... he too is a sort of groomer..... he GLORIFIES experimentation and geooming..... rather than attempting to cover it up.
forgivness....truth....redemption.....hope....longsuffering....patience..... we need these.....
I cannot say anything about the guilt or innocence involved but i can say this essay on how sex groomers work is very deceptive. I do not know the conditions that inspired it so i assume there was trauma that made such an inaccurate description of how it actually works. But the subtle errors in this paper are so significantly wrong it implies a level of intended deception and it is very dangerous to anyone reading it rather than helpful. Nearly everything described are suggesting if anyone guy is ever sincerely nice to a girl then he is grooming her for sex.
The techniques of a sexual predator are known and understood and should be researched, this list is highly misleading on that topic. There are a few similarities between what is described here and how they actually work but overall it is very different.
Feel free to email me on this topic as i find it extremely important and worth further discussion. And, to say again, this is not about guilt or innocence as I know nothing of that, I only know about psychology and this is not only inaccurate but dangerously so.
[email protected]
Matt, You didn't mention your experience or credentials in detail (you mention knowing about psychology). Is this something you have studied or have professional experience with?
Suggestion: if there are specific details you disagree with, can you point some of them out? Are there any resources you would point to that give a description that you feel is better? I cannot speak for Meg at all but her description here seems in line with characteristics I have seen and have learned about in grad school, including from reading authors such as Anna Salter.
An entirely different piece: http://boz.religionnews.com/2014/06/13/five-basic-characteristics-child-sexual-offenders-eliminating-edge/ However, I don't see how Boz's article would disagree with the OP here. They seem to mesh well with each other, at least to my eye. But perhaps you see some important inaccuracies or issues that are better explained in other articles?
Thankyou for your comments and questions. I do not have any significant credentials to mention. I will take more time to write a specific critique rather than in general terms. I do not commonly comment on forums so I may not have spoken so well.
It is possible that appropriate actions of a person sincerely and legitimately interested in building a relationship with another person would be the very actions that would be inappropriate when done by someone with no legitimate interest. For example, calling, just to chat, would be inappropriate for a work supervisor, a much older man or woman (opposite sex or same sex attracted), an instructor, a married person of the opposite sex, etc.
Yes, particular and specific critique is more helpful than generalities. This forum is a safe place to honestly disagree. But your critique leaves me with no information about what you actually disagree about. "The writer is wrong" or "...can't be right" are conclusions lacking any specifics that might benefit readers or allow the writer or others to defend the essay.
2 January 2015
Hi Meg,
Wow! What a testimony! Thank you for the courage to share your story!!
My heart truly goes out to you and others who have fallen victim to "sexual predators" of any type, but especially those who use the name of God to lure people into their traps. I pray that your grave warning about deceitful men who have evil intentions will be heeded. Your following statement is especially poignant and so true!
"Absolute Loyalty
Do not listen to others who tell you they have concerns about your relationship with this person. They don’t know him! They don’t know how sincere and kind and special he is. They don’t know his generous heart and his vulnerability.
When you find yourself thinking this, you have fallen into his web of lies and deceit.
Your groomer has won your heart, he has won your trust, he has won your mind...
I would like
In your hour of evil,
when the shadow darkens your door,
remember my story, and remember my words of warning."
That final statement of yours brings back a buried memory that I wish never happened. I too was the target of a "sexual predator" and ironically his name was Bill—not BG. I walked with this man who claimed to be a Christian minister for three years, until God opened my eyes to who he was. And I am so thankful for the Lord God—He is truly the only one who has helped me get through my time of testing!
God even allowed me to publish my testimony ("Walking With the Enemy" V-Edition), and I have freely given it away for twenty years now. Meg, if you, or others from Recovering Grace, would like a copy of my book, I would love to share it with you. Just let me know...
This is a quote that I think you will appreciate from a youth minister who read my testimony when it was first published 20 years ago.
"It would take awhile to share with you all that I found to be in common with your story, though they are different, the similarities are undeniable. It's amazing how the Enemy's signature is the same."
I know the scars that you carry, and by sharing what you have been through, I know it will help those who will listen to not go down that dark and lonely road that we once walked.
You are in my prayers dear lady! God bless and keep you and your loved ones! Keep the faith my sister in the Lord!
With the love of Christ,
C. Read