Series Overview: In late 2013, Bill Gothard requested that Tony G provide him with evidence of Gothard’s personal knowledge of wrongdoing related to the
Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts (IBYC, now IBLP) scandal of 1980. Tony responded with meticulous detail, mailing Gothard a collection of 50+ documents that totaled about 140 pages, including the
“Agent of Satan” letter and Tony’s response.
Tony copied other relevant parties, including Recovering Grace, in order to follow through in calling Gothard to accountability. We formally agreed to hold this information in confidence to give Gothard and the Board reasonable time to take proper action. We privately referred to this collection as “the package,” in order to differentiate it from materials provided to us from other sources, and we used the information contained in these documents (along with our other sources) as reference for our scandal series in February, 2014.
It has been difficult for us to hold this information, realizing that it belongs to a much wider, equally interested audience. On the heels of the 1980’s scandal, Bill Gothard launched his Advanced Training Institute of America, ATIA (later ATII, now just ATI). Every family and student affected by Gothard’s ongoing ministry must feel deeply the fact that this information exists, most of which was methodically (and sometimes cruelly) pushed under the rug. How many families would have taken a pass on the “new approach to life” espoused by Gothard’s homeschool program in 1984, had they known what really happened just a few years earlier?
As much as we wished to share everything right away, we held onto the package out of respect for the “old guard,” the former IBYC staffers who wanted to give Bill one more chance to make 
things right. We held it out of respect for Tony, whose careful research uncovered the scandal back in 1980. We later learned that we were perhaps being too respectful, since Tony did after all share the package with us because he suspected it would need to be published at some point in the most recent accountability process. Following the disappointing lack of response from Gothard, we have been given freedom to share.
In the months that followed our receipt of the package, we have tried to share some of the information contained within without damaging individuals who have been hurt previously. We will continue to hold certain people and stories in confidence, whether from Tony’s package or from our many other sources. Those people will tell their own stories when they are ready.
However, we will now make the bulk of the package available as public record, along with follow-up writings. The timing of this release has been influenced by the time required of our volunteers to edit and format these materials, though we hope the holidays will provide time for study and reflection. In order to aid our readers, we have re-ordered the information into the following blog posts (links will be provided here as the articles are published):
The purpose of these documents and the correspondence that accompanied them, written by Tony, is a call for repentance—a full acknowledgement and confession of sin, the correction of the wrongs and damage done as God would provide direction and help, and a recovery of a clear conscience and a genuine faith by Bill Gothard. This process includes a call for the IBLP organization, especially its Board and management, to be a ministry above reproach.
Tony made painstaking effort to follow specific biblical teachings for dealing with error and ungodliness in the church of Jesus Christ. The topics are hard, but these documents and letters are a good illustration of “speaking the truth in love” as we are taught by God to be careful to do. (Ephesians 4:15; II Timothy 2:24-26).
We know our readers will see that Tony is persistent. We hope you will note that his persistence comes from a heart of genuine love throughout his writing, and expresses two clear emphases. Tony stresses the need to follow biblical teaching for dealing with this situation, and he repeatedly offers biblical encouragement and reassurance. We are grateful that he was willing to share his material via Recovering Grace, and we appreciate his patience with us as this story has taken over our lives, worn us to the quick, and inspired us to maintain our integrity and focus over the past year. We hope that our readers are able to find answers, closure, healing, and direction, wherever you are in your journey toward Grace and Truth.
Click here to view the original outline of the tabbed and indexed materials included in the package, titled “Request by Bill Gothard for Truth and Reconciliation, 2013-2014.”
The charges levelled against Bill Gothard in “the package,” along with supporting evidence, testimonies, and documentation, have been presented to Bill Gothard at least four times:
1. This information was first presented to Gothard one-on-one, in private, on several occasions in April through July of 1980.
2. This evidence was presented again to the Board of Directors of IBYC, with Gothard in attendance, during a twelve hour Board meeting on July 5, 1980. After the presentation, that Board terminated him as President of IBYC and from membership on the Board of Directors.
3. These materials were again presented in a forty hour deposition to the law firm employed by Gothard in 1981. During deposition, a team of attorneys examined Tony and each of these details, thereby obtaining a complete copy of all the supporting detail and documentation.
4. In October through December of 2013, as reported in the “Agent of Satan” article, Bill Gothard took the initiative to telephone Tony twice and to write him four letters requesting detail and documentation on two serious topics of inquiry Gothard had on his mind. (Tony had not previously initiated any communications with Gothard in about 33 years, since approximately 1981.) Gothard indicated what seemed at the time to be a sincere desire to seek truth and reconciliation. Tony then prepared and sent the requested package.
Response to the Package
Gothard did not respond to or follow up with Tony after receipt of the package. Thus, on December 30, 2013, Tony sent complete copies of the package to the individual members of the IBLP Boards of Directors and Advisors, as listed on IBLP’s website at the time, and listed below; the pastor and individual staff and elders of LaGrange Bible Church (LBC, Gothard’s former home church); Independent Fundamental Churches of America (IFCA, an association of which LBC is a member); Midwest Christian Outreach, Inc.; and Recovering Grace.
Tony reports that there has been little response of substance from Bill Gothard (other than the spreading of rumors about Tony and other former staff) and none at all from the IBLP Board of Directors regarding these materials.
-There has been no direct inquiry into the matter by IBLP internal investigator David Gibbs, Jr.
-There has been no complaint regarding the materials in general.
-There has been no statement that any detail or fact is in error.
-There has been no rebuttal to the outline of specific biblical disqualifications of Bill Gothard, or of the supporting evidence provided.
-There has been no effort made to respond to Tony’s repeated invitations to meet privately to address each of these charges and work to put in place a biblical solution.
-There has been no protest from Gothard, the IBLP Board of Directors, or LaGrange Bible Church regarding the several notices that this evidence would be presented to the public, as a warning to the wide church of Jesus Christ per the instructions of scripture.
Tony has implored all ministerial parties to consult with God and His Word as spiritually qualified Overseers are expected to do. We ought to all pray together that this IBLP Board would heed the warnings of Scripture on this issue—to follow, fully and quickly, the clear instructions of God’s holy Word. God’s Word is clear enough.
History of Communication with Bill Gothard
People may ask: Have any believers, ministers, or prophets of God ever made a genuine effort to bring these charges and evidence to Bill Gothard, per the instructions of Jesus Christ in Matthew 18:10-20? Yes. Tony is but one example.
LETTERS AND DOCUMENTS TO GOTHARD
11.11.13 Correspondence with Gothard beginning 10/10/13
12.30.13 Cover letter sent with 140 pages
12.30.13 “History of Attempts to Confront Bill Gothard Regarding Disqualifications from Ministry” (now updated to include events to-date in 2014)
Follow-up letters after “the package”:
1.6.14 Judgments
1.10.14 First Steps*
1.11.14 Request for Resignations
1.28.14 False Witness
2.10.14 Board Qualifications +2 pieces (McLario, Stancil)
2.10.14 John McLario
2.10.14 John Stancil
4.25.14 Cease Alliance with Egypt (David Gibbs, Jr.)
5.2.14 BG response to Egypt (with Tony’s reply)
* Many have wondered, “How would anyone know if Bill Gothard’s repentance is genuine?” A number of the 1980 IBYC staff asked Tony to outline what specific actions Gothard could take to demonstrate genuine godly sorrow and, in practical ways that could be carried out, to begin to make right all the ruin that he caused in Tony’s life. On Dec. 1, 2008, in Bill Gothard and Gary Smalley’s call to Tony, Gothard asked the same question, “What would it take for us to reconcile?”
Tony put those “First Steps” into a letter to Gothard so that Gothard would have opportunity and invitation to pursue reconciliation, first with God and then with man (Psalm 50:6-17).
In addition to past attempts, Recovering Grace continues to receive testimony and documentation regarding Matthew 18 approaches to Gothard. With his continued rebellion and obfuscation by the IBLP Board, this situation has surpassed scriptural benchmarks:
Matthew 18:17 “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.”
I Timothy 5:20 “Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.”
Ephesians 5:11 “Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them…”
If and when the IBLP Board of Directors, and Bill Gothard himself, would repent before a holy God and acknowledge these and other related sins and damage done, these charges and their evidence will guide them to at least a few places where they can begin to demonstrate godly sorrow and the fruits of repentance described in II Corinthians 7:8-12.
Many are praying for Gothard and IBLP in one way or another. Tony has found it helpful to review this short summary (from the package) of “True Biblical Repentance.” (Survey of II Corinthians 7 and James 3). A future update with any response by Gothard to Tony and “the package” will be provided in a separate blog post.
History of Communication with the IBLP Board
Tony copied the package to the Board, saying, “The charges outstanding against Bill Gothard directly implicate the IBLP Board and its participation in the cover up of these charges and prevention of their being addressed biblically. The Institute ministry is affected because materials authored by a fully disqualified man are the core of what is being distributed and taught by the IBLP organization.”
“The IBLP Board must be asked to make public their new commitment to recruit and maintain only Board members who qualify biblically as Overseers. They must acknowledge to the public their violation of that in the naming as Board members previous men who the Board had not vetted for their clear disqualifications and which men have brought on untold damage and confusion in a ministry that needed rather godly men with proven courage to deal with sin and wrongs in every form under their direct responsibility and oversight.”
We include responses to-date from the few individuals who responded to Tony after they received the package.
History of Communication with LaGrange Bible Church
Why did Tony copy the package to LaGrange Bible Church? Tony’s explanations are:
1. The Chairman of the IBLP Board and the Senior Pastor of the LaGrange Bible Church both signed and endorsed Bill Gothard’s 19-page letter describing Tony as “an agent of Satan.” Tony was asking all three signing parties to consider their violation of the teachings of Christ and to recant publicly this bearing of false witness via that letter distributed around the nation.
2. The purpose of the materials, “Request by Bill Gothard for Truth and Reconciliation, 2013-2014,” along with the several letters which accompanied and followed these materials, were to implore the Board of IBLP and the Elders of the LaGrange Bible Church to join the work of addressing each of these charges so that very soon God would be glorified by a full confession of sin and a new commitment to correctly present the good news of the Gospel for every believer, and become clean of all outstanding charges against the organization and against Gothard personally.
The Scriptures are clear that, in the last days, every local church will be faced with sorting through winds of doctrine, and in some cases wolves in sheep clothing that come into their fellowship. Much deception of the saints will be attempted by the enemy of the Church. How each local church fares will depend on the spiritual alertness of the congregation and its Elders and Pastors, their commitment to pure doctrine, the simplicity of their devotion to Jesus Christ (II Corinthians 11:1-4; 10:4-6), and their readiness to bring disobedience to God’s Word by any in their fellowship to a hearing, first privately, and as needed to a public review.
The LaGrange Bible Church has had opportunity for the past 34 years to do just that, with many pleadings by ministers and representatives of the Lord Jesus Christ. They have, to this date, rejected every effort and every request for their help in fulfilling their biblical responsibilities.
These charges continue to stand against Bill Gothard today because he has defrauded the authority of his local church. Thus, the charges have never been properly heard by the authority established over him by God’s Word.
We join Tony in his prayer that this information will serve the purposes God has in the publishing of such warnings to His church. That we would all soberly fear a repeat of these sins: redefining, adding to, and taking away from God’s Holy Word; introducing the idolatry of religious form and practice that competes with the preeminence of Jesus Christ; offering alternative programs and formulas to the promises and provisions that are exclusively from Jesus Christ alone; presenting novel philosophies, traditions, and commandments and precepts of mere men instead of relying wholly on the all sufficiency of Jesus Christ and His life which is ours by our faith relationship with Him.
He alone, “Jesus Christ who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption so that just as it is written, Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.” I Corinthians 1:30-31
Image copyright: kchung / 123RF Stock Photo
July 31, 2024
This package of LBC materials makes me grieve that Tony has felt compelled to solely call for adjudication and judgment. It is understandable that the current church leadership does not want to judge things long past, but, despite Tony's intense focus on the pre-1981 sins of B.G., the misdeeds of the church--specifically endorsement of the Agent of Satan letter and LBC's failure at the time to hear the charge against it's ordained member--ought to be recanted and apologized for. It would also be healthy for LBC to call on Bill's current church to formally examine his ordination and consider its revocation or withdrawal, along with appropriate censure.
I used to have a lot of respect for Jim Sammons. He was the president of ATI for a number of years when we were with ATI and seemed to have a lot of wisdom in his financial seminar. I have been wondering what his response was to the things that Gothard has done. I was very disappointed to read his response. He lost all my respect for the way he refused to look at the evidence and "washed his hands" of any responsibility.
Yeah, I was shocked by that, too.
It's hard for me not to think of this with regard to those who have been in a position to help but who find it more convenient to see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil:
The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+10%3A11-18&version=NIV
Excellent verse, Matthew!
“Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. The true test of a man’s character is what he does when no one is watching." --John Wooden
You know, with all of ATI's emphasis on character, it sure would have solved a whole lot of issues if Bill, the Board, and others who looked the other way would have just lived this out. Your beliefs don't make you a better person---your behavior does. Or as another famous Teacher put it, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and not do what I say?" It makes no sense whatsoever. Belief must be backed up by more than just words or it is worthless.
I still hold out hope that IBLP and the past/present Board members will make a public course correction and choose to do the right thing moving forward, which would include not attempting to sweep past sins under the rug.
I saw these distinguished authorities response to Tony G.'s request;that being Sammons,Youngberg,and Cantrell.Seasoned by the ongoing influence of the wide spectrum of seminars,material,and ATIA,forums,and polished programs;these gentlemen have their noted accomplishments,portfolios,influences,and high recommendations,to pool their lauded concensus for the trappings offered to the public forum of Gothardism.Established.Packaged.The only minor setback is how there now seems to be certain avoidances of responsibilities following the afterward of destroyed letters,documents,with the all too distasteful implication of years of sacrificing victims slandered,lied about,suppressed on the alter of Bill's justification of his" ministry".The beginnings of a symbiotic umbelical chord which will eventually turn into an albatross about their necks as more discomforting light is shed.Their vested input can only mean looking the other way,throwing under the bus those unfortunate enough not to have responded in the chrystalized manner expected of them from those on top of the devastation,that can't be swept away.Now comes the afterward;the voices like mine attempting to cry out for compassion,healing,justice.Paradigm shift.Great commission.Jesus is now looking, not for the "Lost sheep of Israel as in Matt.9,but for the Lost Sheep of The Church.
Mr. Wes E. Cantrell (view response)
Mr. Jim A. Sammons (view response)
Dr. Dean L. Youngberg (view response)
I viewed their responses and they all basically said, go away, don't bother me. I guess that is their prerogative and they probably do not want to get involved in something they actually had no part in. To them they most likely consider all this stuff about their leader as heresay. And how can any of it be so bad, after all, look how good they and their families turned out.
When I think about all that has happened concerning BG and other church "leaders" I actually think God did me a favor by allowing events leading to where I no longer attend church. Too much drama!
I think the congruence of their responses was not a coincidence. Tony listed the CC's on his letter, so I would guess all those folks got a call telling them not to get involved.
agree with this
Tony,
I greatly admire your perserverance through all these years. You remind me of the widow seeking justice from the unjust judge. She never gave up. Thanks for shedding light on this time frame because for those of us old enough to remember it, it was swept under the carpet and pastors continued to support Bill and the seminars. I have a couple of questions either to you or RG, if Bill is no longer at LaGrange church then where is he? What happen to Steve Gothard?
Hey Bill,
Congratulations, you've been outrageously successful!!
I bought the lie about Me being the hammer, my wife the chisel etc.
Now here is the fruit, I hope you enjoy this part. My wife ran off and married again, my children refuse to acknowledge me, my eldest son is living with his girlfriend, his younger siblings heavily into new age beliefs. I am drifting from church to church trying to stay 'on the wagon' and 'off the cliffs of suicide'.
As an obvious agent of the destroyer of God's people, your success is astonishing.
What is there left to believe in?
Ron,I will pray.May God intervene with His love.
Wow, Ron, this is incredibly sad. Praying for you!
Under New Zealand law there may be a case under the consumer guarantees act. Any thoughts about a class action to recover at least our costs? The publicity should warn anyone else about putting their marriage and families at such perilous risk.
Ron,
Like the many others who responded to the concise summary of your heartbreak, I feel compelled to, also. What you've been through has to have been excruciating. And yes, there's enough doctrinal expose of Gothard on RG alone to throw the book at Gothard as a heretic and false-doctrine peddler of Bible-sounding themes. I know nothing about class-action suits, I'm afraid.
But if anyone knows anyone getting sucked-in or still sucked-in, please put notes with RG's website on their car window, please distribute leaflets to them when you see them in their yard, (along with domestic violence hotline numbers for BOTH men and women), and, if this doesn't merit a response, and there's a child in the picture, consider contacting CPS. Gothard's chain of command is so Hitler-ian, (esp. as the foundation of all his other heresis and then combined with his personal M.O.), doing this may prevent a wrongful death class-action suit against Gothard.
Or, just let things keep falling the way they have been...... and this'll be the nature of a class-action eventually put to him.
(I'm thinking along the lines of the website "Homeschool's Invisible Children" although there should probably one titled "Gothard's Cover of the American Family; Time to Sing the Real Tune").
Best wishes, Ron; you are and were a way better man and leader than Gothard ever was. You're not the poser.
Nicole, I agree that we should warn those involved or newly attracted to IBLP, but calling child protective services on the basis of ATI membership alone is an extreme, cruel and arbitrary act. If you see evidence of child abuse, yes, call. But most ATI/Gothard families did not abuse their children so involvement alone is not a reasonable or fair basis to report the parents as abusers.
We all need to keep in mind that any failings we IBLP/ATI parents are guilty of in connection with Gothard may have been rooted in our own foolishness. In other words, legalists, abusers, spiritual elitists, etc., have been attracted to Gothard as much as or more than being made by him. His false teaching is to be condemned, but our actions and beliefs are not all his fault. We have sinned.
My personal view is that suing IBLP for our own mistakes, years after the fact, is no solution, but would merely bring incompetent and possibly evil intended lawyers and judges into these matters, possibly resulting in great restrictions on religious liberty. If we want to be free to correct our brothers and sisters they need to be free to make mistakes (or to serve Christ--the state does not know the difference).
I am a lawyer and I believe litigation in such matters should be left to specific cases of personal abuse, fraud or labor law violations (such as sexual harassment, non-payment of overtime, etc.) focusing on the particular actions of particular wrongdoers rather than on the beliefs and taught practices of a large para-church operation. Do we really want to sue Gothard for our own abusive actions, simply because he gathered us to himself via our own itching ears?
I agree with this. I'm not sure how one can bring a law suite to a seminar most freely attended and then decided to follow. The earlier law suites from the early 1980's were dismissed and didn't stop him from developing ATI homeschooling program. I think the effect of the previous and earlier lawsuits was that it made those that brought them look like disgruntled ex-employees even though the basis was back pay and forced overtime. All Bill did do was reconfigured who worked for him from adults to teenagers under the guise of "internships". Don maybe you could shed some light on my thinking here. I'm also not sure if those that were hurt by his "medical" advice and suggestions don't have much of a legal leg to sue.
I think you have it about right. It might be that medical licensing boards could look seriously at M.D.'s and other licensed professionals who endorsed quackery, but differences of opinion within medicine cannot be resolved that way--even if we know that the medical instruction was NOT biblical or spiritual, just one silly man's opinion and preferences being foisted on others.
From what I've gleaned from Tony' story, it appears that the lawsuits in 1982 or thereabouts were defeated by IBLP simply spending money on lawyers. Gothard outgunned the plaintiffs with thousands and thousands of dollars of depositions, discovery, motions and harassment. There used to be saying that you don't get in an argument in print with someone who buys ink by the barrel (newspaper companies). Today, we should remember that you should not sue rich people or organizations. They can resist and delay until you run out of money and energy.
On the other hand, if those offended kept insisting on independent Christian mediation of the conflicts, whether they are theological or personal, would be a continual witness within the church that IBLP and B.G. refuse to be accountable to the wider church. We are to take our disputes to believers. Those who will not submit to such mediation establish clearly that they are the ones outside the communion of Christ.
Thanks Don. I just came across a 1992 Chicago Times article about controversy with IBLP wanting to expand the pending legal battle with those living nearby who were against it. The article mentioned the earlier 1982 law suites and that they about back pay and overtime as well as trying to hold Bill accountable for not following his teaching. The Chicago article mentioned that they were dismissed by the judge. Maybe my question to you or even RG is what courts, judges and lawyers were involved, why were they dismissed. The article also interviews Steve Gothard who also sued Bill over the northern Michigan property. He claimed that the property was in his name and Bill tricked him into signing over it to IBLP. I think with all this info begin released via Tony that if RG could publish the actual law suites and what happen, that would be very good. I am now curious what lawyers were involved on both sides and if the judge or judges were secret supporters of Bill and dismissed the cases due to that. Even back in the 1980's, I would think that it shouldn't have been too hard to find lawyers that would want to take on a million dollar Christian ministry. Where is Jeffery Fieger when you need him?
From what I've read on RG, it appears the 1982 plaintiffs were just beaten into submission by the cost of litigation. I have no doubt the case was weak and the risk of being stuck with IBLP's law fees of 500,000 was significant. The case would have been weak because: everyone agreed to work under the conditions they had and no court is ever going to hold a ministry accountable for practicing what they preach.
My understanding is that, besides the cost, the court found Bill Wood didn't have standing. They said he worked in a managerial role and was not representative of the staff.
Thank-you Don and Jay. I wondered about the case and what happen. Just on my own hunch, it probably was a weak case to begin with in that they volunteered to work for Bill and under the conditions he gave. I never did understand the other side in trying to hold him responsible for following his own teaching. Of course all of this was pre-internet and I think that they were trying to bring some justice and hold him accountable. I know the Church I was attending at the time viewed it with distain with St. Paul admonishment of not suing other Christians as the basis for the view.
Don, Amen. Thanks for typing it up. So many things you said I want to quote and reinforce. Instead, let me just recommend your comment be referenced from time to time. It is refreshing and healing to own up to our own foolishness, but not own the other person's. We have sinned. The other person will answer for theirs, and I will answer for my own. Might as well get with the program now and agree with God here on earth.
Don, your experience and gifting are appreciated.
I possess limited abilities and grasp only after I read account after account an easily non completed asessement of many aspects of Gothard's ministry to which I must constantly return.I went thru life wanting to be a sincere believer.No other recourse after having read documents,testimonies,has been given to me except brokenheartedness.The desire to hold Bill responsible for what happened met with a great disconnect;a biproduct of today's modernist thinking.After a time lapse of so long;events can be redefined,a new image can be recreated.The well respected,well established associates,boardmembers,compartmentalized their involvement.Denied linking up with the misdeeds against those Bill mistreated;Is it either by association in an advisory capacity,or by the vague non-descript passage of time?Today in the eyes of God is merely tomorrow's yesterday.deeds committed either for or against the glory of God remain chrystallized for evaluation at a time and date none can ward off.The time of the scandal is merely "today"thirty five years ago,only repentance can loose participants from their entrenched positions,attitudes,responsibilities.God retains His Glory only for certain ordained responses.People will still be in the flesh,having not repented.The responses God wanted have been neglected at the very onset of these events.There is no glory in what happened,only that which can be reconciled by the master at great price in an ongoing process.The flesh will not inherit,will not be glorified,will now if not then be seen for what it is though dressed up in plattitudes,suits,and false attainment;qualification,rejected.May more see as recovering grace has seen the lost sheep of the church.And the Glory of God.Instead of natural religion.
Brother David,"Today in the eyes of God is merely tomorrow's yesterday.deeds committed either for or against the glory of God remain chrystallized for evaluation at a time and date none can ward off." Good to be reminded of God looking from His eternity perspective. May what we bring, not be burned as hay, wood and stubble. May we represent and be co-labors with Christ.
Thank you Guy! Wonderful to read your encouragement.Wonderful to know that the truth is not some impersonal force to herd us down the corridor of time but a Person Who cares for the underprivledged and sometimes rejected.
With respect to the value of healthy discourse, we at Recovering Grace have made the rare decision to block one of our regular commenters for the foreseeable future. We have appreciated the opportunity Alfred has provided our readers to think and express their thoughts in response to his commentaries, and we have allowed his opinions to rise or fall on their own merits. However, after years of giving him the benefit of the doubt, we feel that Alfred's assertions that he is seeking the truth have been overall disingenuous. We freely confess that we started Recovering Grace with an agenda, which we have clearly stated in the FAQ section. We feel that Alfred has been less than honest about his own agenda, and would like to invite him to launch a website of his own to promote it if he so chooses. To the rest of our readership, please do not feel any concern about expressing your own thoughts in the comments sections of our blog, as these can give rise to answering questions we hadn't thought of, and clarity to our readership, and we truly welcome your God-given diversity of opinion. Please consider this a very rare and well-deserved decision on the part of our leadership team.
Moderator(s),
I'm sad to see that it has come to this. I know I've often come across as one of Alfred's harshest critics, but my deepest hope was that he would take some time for honest self-reflection about his motives. Whether or not he is being less than honest with us about his agenda, his behavior certainly suggests that he is being less than honest with himself about his agenda. And that's what even more concerning. I'll join the chorus of those suggesting that Alfred start his own pro-IBLP website, but I really can't imagine him dedicating the same time or energy to it that he expends arguing with people on here and feeding off disagreement.
One of the reasons I've grown to enjoy the RG community is that we have a fairly diverse set of opinions and life experiences shared among the regular commenters here. It is far from, as Alfred once put it, an "echo chamber." Watching threads like the Eastern Orthodox / icons conversation develop has been really encouraging, because it tells me that generally speaking, this is a healthy place where respectful discussion can take place among people who are viewed as more than disagreeable opinions. I'm not happy that this decision about Alfred had to be made like this, but I am glad that this place can become much safer for those who seek to share their story without fear of it being scrutinized, dissected, and bulldozed over.
I am sorry to see it has come to this- I like Alfred, and respect his right to his opinions which have helped me understand why so many still support BG- they have gotten much out of the program but I think that may be due to their type of personality-where every thing has to be in its place, neat, orderly and clean. There are some of us who better operate in chaos and do not mind a dirty dish or unswept floor. BTW, the brain operates in chaos (brain waves, electrical impulses, etc.) Scientists who study the brain say it is not a healthy brain when those waves and impulses become orderly.
I love you Moderators. Bless you. Thanks so much for your labor of love. I cannot tell you how much this place means to me.
Your decision to block is of course fine by me. I hope it is OK to say that I think he will miss us here. I have never seen him admit that one reason he came here was because of the love he got. That is what I guess. I am sure that some of us will also miss him. I rarely interacted with him, but I learned so much by watching others.
You guys {plural} at RG and GuyS [singular],[No pun intended]have brought unity in the Spirit;and that across a broad spectrum of diversified feelings about the Kingdom.I don't know Karen,but I love her comments and am a closet Orthodox admirer of the old Russian Church,with the basso profundos and sonorous chants,and know many people from Gothard's Programs went to Russia and loved the Russian people ,and still love the Russian people today.Awesome.Since Old Mother Russia is a few miles away,any church or fellowship that brings one's heart into contact with God,with or without the denominational label is great.One of the greatest experiences that could be derived from contact of the Kingdom is "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day."May typed words,prayers,fervent hearts,cause us to be aware of another realm,and once its accessed,bring in the hurting the downtrodden,those used as spiritual punching bags,to find joy hope for the future,and faith.Rest.Strength.Alfred invested so much in the hollow package and seemed to deny any credibility to those suffering so horribly;opening up old wounds.I;m sorry he could not acknowledge the blatant suffering of the lambs from the false shepherd.I'm sorry for the turning away of hardened hearts from cries of victims decades ago,by the IBLP machine,and associated leaders.But most of all I'm sorry for people not seeing the heart of Jesus causing many upon many to turn away.
I meant to ask you earlier but some of your comments peaked my curiosity to ask you or any other student that served in Russia for IBLP, what was Bill's own view or views of Orthodox Christians? Did he see them as actual Christians or did he view them as needing to be saved? Did Bill ever express any views of liturgical worship? It seems a shame that you had to be a "closet" admirer as if having this admiration was bad or that admiration of Christians that fall outside of the Protestant evangelical world is somehow wrong and needs an explanation.
thank-you to the moderators for your work and even tolerance. I think there is a difference between expression of support for Bill Gothard and or even searching out for answers and truth and basically what Alfred seemed to allow himself to become which to me looked like a double agent of sorts and a pest. I do appreciate that you did let us know your decision for now because not seeing posts from him would cause one to wonder what happen to him. I know with a son working so closely with Bill for a long time, it would be hard for him to view Bill any other way and I'm sure concern for his children's employment there was a under lying reality for him. I appreciate the honesty and the stated reasons. I do want to compliment RG on the blog as having one of the most respectful conversations between different Christians on the web and pray, hope and believe that this continues and that we all can talk with each other and not at each other.
This decision is for the best. I hope Alfred is able to comment again some time in the future. When he insisted Bill had not crossed any "sin lines," as he put it, after all the testimonies presented int the past year, the level of denial became crystal clear. Allowing him to continue to comment does not appear to be helpful.
After reading this, I got curious and did some Googling. Is it true that Alfred is an ILPB board member, or was at some point?
Others will know better than I, but I don't believe so. His web site is www.corduan.com and I'm sure he could answer questions if someone had some for him through the email address on the page there.
I think his web site which I've looked at is more about his family than about IBLP although he does have links to their web sites and yes I think if someone is so motivated could contact him through his email listed there.
Thank you very much!
I am one who had stopped interacting at RG because of Alfred's constant thread-hijacking, victim-blaming, and general ugliness. He made the comment threads an 'unsafe' place for sincere interaction and the comfort of one's fellow learners. Thank you, moderators, for your long patience but also for taking this necessary step. I am glad to feel free to comment again.
Just got through reading Tony Guhr's"judgements"..sorry for so many entries on this article,This hits so so very hard,very disturbingly hard,horrible,but true; Tony is absolutely brave,patient,enduring,stalwart.May God bless Tony and associates.
Thank you Moderators for the clarification. I appreciate your giving Alfred the benefit of the doubt as long as you did. After all, I know you don't want this site to suck people back into the same traps they were trying to get out of.
I would like to know how IBLP has been doing since BG has stepped down; has it gotten better or worse? Or have people still involved been sworn to secrecy? I do notice that the Duggars' Facebook page, while very encouraging, that question has never been answered, though asked many times.
I continue to pray for your wisdom and wish all of you Merry Christmas and all the best in 2015.
I think the Duggars have switched from the ATI program to another home school group. I'm not sure if that is due to pressure to distance themselves from Bill or if it is due to the fact that the older children have not been able to really do anything else beyond ATI. The girls have dabbled with local on line midwifery but it hasn't lead to anything. The oldest son has a political job most likely do to name recognition and their father's politics. I think it is a little of both now that there is a possibility the the show being cancelled.